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Oh look: another naive mistake by the US Marine Corps

The US Marine Corps is once again in damage control after a photograph surfaced of a sniper team in Afghanistan posing in front of a flag with a logo resembling that of the notorious Nazi SS – a special unit that murdered millions of Jews, gypsies and others.

They need an education in common decency. To start with: NO pissing on corpses and NO “accidental” or deliberate promotion of genocidal fuckwits. Fucking idiots!

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30 Responses to "Oh look: another naive mistake by the US Marine Corps"

Marchpig says:

February 11, 2012 at 2:43 am

This is not a nazi flag, for one it’s blue, and for two I have never seen a Schutzstaffel flag done this way. I’m going with the explanation given by the USMC, that is was an innocent mistake, the soldiers intended it to be “Scout Sniper”. Also I think it displays a lot of what is endemic in the US, a lack of knowledge and understanding about the rest of the world. But then, I’ve known people to get upset at the swastika too, and that’s not a nazi symbol.

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Phenyx says:

February 11, 2012 at 3:36 am

Marchpig;1702938 wrote: This is not a nazi flag, for one it’s blue, and for two I have never seen a Schutzstaffel flag done this way. I’m going with the explanation given by the USMC, that is was an innocent mistake, the soldiers intended it to be “Scout Sniper”. Also I think it displays a lot of what is endemic in the US, a lack of knowledge and understanding about the rest of the world. But then, I’ve known people to get upset at the swastika too, and that’s not a nazi symbol.

I am well aware of the history of the swastika. Unfortunately it is now associated overwhelmingly with Nazis, not with it’s Buddhist origins – hence people getting upset. Even though I have studied Buddhism I feel yuck when I see a swastika in a Buddhist context, such is the power of symbols and the impact of genocide.

Just because this flag happens to be blue does not excuse this idiocy. OK, it doesn’t use Nazi colours but still looks exactly like the SS flags. The neo-Nazi copywriters would still have a case. Nor is ignorance an excuse. I’m sick to death of people claiming ignorance, therefore all their actions are naive mistakes. How can you be naive and part of the US Marine Corps anyway? Hmm, I guess that question is totally naive. But anyway, if just ONE of these people knew any vague history they would have realised that they needed a new fucking Sniper Scouts flag.

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Leetmofo says:

February 11, 2012 at 4:16 am

Are these army guys just plain fucking stupid or what?

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Marchpig says:

February 11, 2012 at 4:19 am

Leetmofo;1702949 wrote: Are these army guys just plain fucking stupid or what?

They’re not Army, they are Marines.

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Marchpig says:

February 11, 2012 at 4:29 am

Phenyx;1702944 wrote: I am well aware of the history of the swastika. Unfortunately it is now associated overwhelmingly with Nazis, not with it’s Buddhist origins – hence people getting upset. Even though I have studied Buddhism I feel yuck when I see a swastika in a Buddhist context, such is the power of symbols and the impact of genocide.

Just because this flag happens to be blue does not excuse this idiocy. OK, it doesn’t use Nazi colours but still looks exactly like the SS flags. The neo-Nazi copywriters would still have a case. Nor is ignorance an excuse. I’m sick to death of people claiming ignorance, therefore all their actions are naive mistakes. How can you be naive and part of the US Marine Corps anyway? Hmm, I guess that question is totally naive. But anyway, if just ONE of these people knew any vague history they would have realised that they needed a new fucking Sniper Scouts flag.

I get sick at seeing this:

but not these:

the Swastika, or Fylfot, or tetraskelion, or in German – Hakenkruez, is older than Buddhism by about 3500 years

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DermottBanana says:

February 11, 2012 at 5:39 am

Phenyx;1702944 wrote: I’m sick to death of people claiming ignorance, therefore all their actions are naive mistakes. How can you be naive and part of the US Marine Corps anyway? Hmm, I guess that question is totally naive. But anyway, if just ONE of these people knew any vague history they would have realised that they needed a new fucking Sniper Scouts flag.

The best example of using naievety as an excuse was that Gosford couple a few years ago who claimed they didn’t understand the significance of the Nazi flag they flew in their yard, but then the journo’s took photos of within their living room, and the bloke had shelves full of neo-Nazi literature.
In the real world, who can legitimately claim to be ignorant of the link between the lightning flashes and the SS? Maybe an 8yo kid, but a bunch of marines? Hardly.

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Hairyman says:

February 11, 2012 at 9:32 am

Gormless fuckwits.

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LorenPechtel says:

February 11, 2012 at 2:48 pm

I rather suspect it was the idea of one neo-Nazi and the rest didn’t know the history.

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Up_All_Night says:

February 11, 2012 at 3:54 pm

Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it….Also are educated in the USA.

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mister mention says:

February 12, 2012 at 1:37 am

Not to forget that alot of the soldiers are weekend warriors who join up only to kill dune coons. janitor one day, ethnic cleanser the next.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 1:58 am

mister mention;1702990 wrote: Not to forget that alot of the soldiers are weekend warriors who join up only to kill dune coons. janitor one day, ethnic cleanser the next.

Would you like me to document atrocities from your nation of choice? I believe these were either an ignorant group of youths or a misguided commander.

Until you would like to offer your meat-bag body to stop of a bullet for one of your fellow countryman, then shut the fuck up and keep lurking!

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DermottBanana says:

February 12, 2012 at 2:51 am

He’s got a point thought Sabre. The militaries of many countries are made up of the poor and ignorant.
There’s long been an opinion that is one reason a certain level of poverty is desirable in a nation – makes it easy for the military to recruit the lower classes whenever it’s deemed necessary.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 3:17 am

DermottBanana;1703005 wrote: He’s got a point thought Sabre. The militaries of many countries are made up of the poor and ignorant.
There’s long been an opinion that is one reason a certain level of poverty is desirable in a nation – makes it easy for the military to recruit the lower classes whenever it’s deemed necessary.

That’s a naive view concerning the factors involved. Some may choose service as a chance to escape their situations, but I can guarantee the majority who get through to service have a sense of duty which extends beyond what the typical civilian feels for his/her country about upholding the security and sensibility of their nations.

Anything but respect shown for the individuals who protect us (unless proven otherwise by their actions) is a slap in the face to them.

You don’t have to agree with the men in the situation room, but don’t fault the men and women with their asses on the line unless they deserve it.

Too many in the foreign / national media like to bag on the isolated idiots who publicize their stupidity by acting inappropriately in wartime.

This was a stupid act and hopefully an isolated oversight or a group of bad apples, but to denegrate the people who let us continue to speak our minds is arrogance.

To speak on the attitude and insensitivity their pics may have described is one thing….to associate their actions with the entirety of the NATO force is unacceptable. And selfish. If someone doesn’t like the way someone else is acting during wartime and wants to paint the entire collective group of the armed forces with a broad brush, then they can go fuck themselves into a third world country and learn how to defend themselves with a fucking ballpoint pen and a stapler. MACGUYVER!!!!!!!!

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DermottBanana says:

February 12, 2012 at 5:13 am

sabreraider;1703008 wrote: That’s a naive view

Maybe you consider it naive. But almost all the NCOs I met during my time working in Defence had that attitude, even concerning themselves.

By contrast, the idea they are fighting for democratic values and upholding your freedoms is simplistic and naive.
Across time, the main reason young blokes join the military is to have a stable income and the opportunities that go along with that lifestyle.
And the reason they do their duty once they’re in has more to do with loyalty to their brothers in arms than any ethereal ideal about democracy or individual freedom.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 5:59 am

DermottBanana;1703010 wrote: Maybe you consider it naive. But almost all the NCOs I met during my time working in Defence had that attitude, even concerning themselves.

By contrast, the idea they are fighting for democratic values and upholding your freedoms is simplistic and naive.
Across time, the main reason young blokes join the military is to have a stable income and the opportunities that go along with that lifestyle.
And the reason they do their duty once they’re in has more to do with loyalty to their brothers in arms than any ethereal ideal about democracy or individual freedom.

So… Your experience with NCO’s is concerning their degredation of themselves and their fellow soldiers and the fact they are serving for a paycheck and have no belief in attempting to make a difference whether they agree 100% with their CO’s?

I have many friends ex and current and regardless of their poltical views, they wouldn’t be there if they didn’t belive they were making a difference.

If you believe the majority of enlisted are there to make $40,000 a year for getting shot at then you need to take an economics and history course.

Next time I get a call from a buddy about a nightmare from showing up for investigation of a blown-up up-armored V then I’ll forward him your geek name so you can net-discuss your views of the ignorance and intentions of the military which you believe to be severely uneducated and naive.

I don’t argue with the discussion on why they are there or why they are still putting their lives on the line, but to insinuate that the military is made-up of uneducated people trying to get a paycheck is fucking disrespectful.

Unless you are calling your local recruitment office tomorrow to put yourself in between them and the people shooting at them and plan on single-handedly directing the war effort, then sit back down and take a moment to review your comments before you share them.

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DermottBanana says:

February 12, 2012 at 7:02 am

Don’t worry Sabre.
When you’re a bit older, and allowed out of short pants, you’ll find the real world doesn’t necessarily reflect what you’ve seen in John Wayne movies.

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kerb says:

February 12, 2012 at 8:21 am

Maybe if the US marines took a proper leaf out of the Nazi’s book (without the getting defeated by the allies bit) they would probably win the war in Afghanistan.

The pashtun people and their culture are fucked beyond repair and sending a few million of their men to the gas chambers would do the world and the region a massive fucking favour.

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Marchpig says:

February 12, 2012 at 1:26 pm

kerb;1703028 wrote: Maybe if the US marines took a proper leaf out of the Nazi’s book (without the getting defeated by the allies bit) they would probably win the war in Afghanistan.

The pashtun people and their culture are fucked beyond repair and sending a few million of their men to the gas chambers would do the world and the region a massive fucking favour.

Nuke it from orbit I say, tis truly the only verifiable way.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 5:01 pm

DermottBanana;1703018 wrote: Don’t worry Sabre.
When you’re a bit older, and allowed out of short pants, you’ll find the real world doesn’t necessarily reflect what you’ve seen in John Wayne movies.

Aha!….. The old “your a kid and know naught of the true workings of the world” argument.

Really? I’d bet I’ve experienced more cultures and visited more places globally than 95%+ of the members on this website, regardless of age, which I assure you I have plenty of.

I’m not screaming the virtues and ra-ra-raing for the military here. I simply stated it is unfair to label the majority of the military as uneducated check-humpers. The many military members I’ve met do not in any way reflect your statements. There are many bad apples in the miltary, but to group them all together with your reasoning is unrespectful and unjust.

I don’t hold a naive view of the world or the military. I’ve stated on this site many times the problems I have with the recent conflicts and the handling of them by both of our nations.

I do believe that most in the military go in for the right reasons and they are there while someone else is not having to put themselves in harms way on a daily basis.

Civilians get to live a reasonably safe and liberal life because others are leaving their families for long periods of time to venture to dangerous places to be ordered to do things they may or may not agree with.

Disagree with the politics, the planners, etc. all you want. If no one volunteered to go do this shit, then we’d all be back to the draft to fill boots.

My point is that before people speak ill of the military, they should try to understand what those men and women sacrifice and experience on a daily basis and realize we civies are able to sit here and talk shit on the webz because someone else is in some shit-hole and hasn’t been able to mail/email/speak to their loved ones in some time.

I know we have many current military on this site. They’re too busy eating shit food and possibly getting shot at to surf Zedgeek to read this thread and respond.

So I’ll hesitantly respond for them. The majority don’t do it for fame or money and they don’t wait for your well wishes and thanks, but if you really think the military is that shitty and its members are there for the measily pay and excitement, then please, by all means, take a break from your daily routine and enlist where you can obviously assist them and better the military with your uber-understanding of the system and it’s people.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 5:20 pm

One example…. a buddy of mine who happens to be current entered the army out of high school, did his four years, returned to attend college acquiring multiple degrees including a masters, went into the domestic workforce in IT and graphic design, while staying reserve, then volunteered to go active after 9/11.

He spent time on the Korean DMZ, then went to Afghanistan shortly after getting married and his wife getting pregnant.

He earned medals and commendations for saving his younger subordinates from mortar fire and other actions.

Luckily he’s now back in a support role stateside with his wife and child.

He sure as hell didn’t go for the $ as he could have made 2-3 times his military pay staying comfortable here working in his learned profession, without leaving his friends and family. He wanted to help the military and his country and understood he was capable and would be saving someone else the experience.

BTW…. my uncle called and would like his foot + 1/2 back which he lost to a satchel charge while shoving his buddies out of harms way back into their bunker.

Show some fucking respect and acknowledge their being there keeps you and me from having to go.

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DermottBanana says:

February 12, 2012 at 5:46 pm

Nothing noone does stops me having to go.
I stop me from going.
I choose not to go.
Others choose to, and that’s fine because it’s their choice, and they get the rewards or the consequences.
Nothing in your examples contradicts what I’ve said, so I’m wondering about their relevance to your argument.

As for respect? They make a choice, and they do a job. They’re no more worthy of respect for that choice that a cop, a schoolteacher, a bus driver or a garbageman.
Respect is earned, not demanded. If someone demands respect for anything, they don’t deserve it.

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 6:14 pm

DermottBanana;1703056 wrote: Nothing noone does stops me having to go.
I stop me from going.
I choose not to go.
Others choose to, and that’s fine because it’s their choice, and they get the rewards or the consequences.
Nothing in your examples contradicts what I’ve said, so I’m wondering about their relevance to your argument.

As for respect? They make a choice, and they do a job. They’re no more worthy of respect for that choice that a cop, a schoolteacher, a bus driver or a garbageman.
Respect is earned, not demanded. If someone demands respect for anything, they don’t deserve it.

My example directly contradicts your argument….. I gave an example of a very intelligent individual who chose his path for reasons very different from what you are describing as the majority of military enlists.

I’ve never known a military person current or ex who demands respect or reward for their service.

I believe the majority of people who choose that path do so for reasons other than the amazing pay, the excitement of getting shot at, or the beautiful vistas they experience.

I choose to repect those who give of themselves and choose to undertake a gruelling job with a higher mortality rate than most other careers people choose for economic reasons.

Regardless of your political views or those of the military members, someone has to fill the boots and if it’s not voluntary, then it’s mandatory.

I can see you’re either trolling or not going to attempt to understand my point or can’t.

That’s fine. Next time I’m in an airport and I see a tired military member waiting on a coach flight to go spend months+ oversees away from their loved ones and relative comfort, I’ll do what I usually do.

Instead of looking down on them as uneducated opportunists (as appears would be your reaction while you sip your soy-free latte), I’ll hesitantly approach if they’re not busy, tell them a quick “Thank you” and shake their hand if it is proffered, and offer to buy them a beer or coffee or burger if there is time.

I’ve seen how service has affected my family and friends and their family members and I choose to acknowledge their service and respect their decision.

You can do whatever feels right to you.

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DermottBanana says:

February 12, 2012 at 8:10 pm

So, to pull it back to the topic at hand, if they’re not under-educated or in ignorance of the historical significance, why the use of Third Reich symbology?

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sabreraider says:

February 12, 2012 at 8:32 pm

DermottBanana;1703060 wrote: So, to pull it back to the topic at hand, if they’re not under-educated or in ignorance of the historical significance, why the use of Third Reich symbology?

As I said before…this was a stupid act and hopefully an isolated oversight or a group of bad apples.

You may have had a rascist or couple in the group and many ignorant to the sybolism, they could be assholes who thought it was funny in some way, who knows?

I believe they deserve to get bagged on in this instance for either being extremely ignorant, rascist, or insensitive.

I just believe it is unfair to take the incidents like this which go public and label the entire armed forces as uneducated, especially considering the size of NATOs combined forces and the environments they are in.

In my opinion, the military in general deserves respect and some level of understanding.

Bad apples need to be disciplined and removed from service. The Gitmo photos, golden showers, etc. are extreme and should not be tolerated in any way.

Now, if some soldier gets taped refering to Iraqi’s or Taliban as rag-heads or similar, then I’m going to cringe, but give incidents like that a little leeway.

Does it hurt the armed forces and their missions in general. For sure, but I will try not to jump to judgement due to understanding the same misguided individual may have just sent his best friend home in a wooden box.

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Tyrany says:

February 12, 2012 at 9:02 pm

Perhaps they were confused by this:

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Dvolve says:

February 12, 2012 at 10:26 pm

I think people are being overly sensitive. It is a similar shape to the Sig rune used by the schutzstaffel but it is most certainly not the same symbol. Its like saying a 5 and an S are exactly the same

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Phenyx says:

February 12, 2012 at 11:27 pm

Dvolve;1703068 wrote: I think people are being overly sensitive. It is a similar shape to the Sig rune used by the schutzstaffel but it is most certainly not the same symbol. Its like saying a 5 and an S are exactly the same

As any google image search will demonstrate, it is exactly the same symbol (apart from the blue background as MP noted earlier).

Regardless, their superiors believe is was still a naive mistake. So, yay for them: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/sniper-team-will-not-be-punished-for-ss-flag/2012/02/10/gIQAXc2e3Q_video.html

Fuckwits.

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Marchpig says:

February 13, 2012 at 12:56 am

Phenyx;1703069 wrote: As any google image search will demonstrate, it is exactly the same symbol (apart from the blue background as MP noted earlier).

Regardless, their superiors believe is was still a naive mistake. So, yay for them: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/sniper-team-will-not-be-punished-for-ss-flag/2012/02/10/gIQAXc2e3Q_video.html

Fuckwits.

Er, similar, not the same tho’

The Nazi SS symbol:

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DermottBanana says:

February 13, 2012 at 1:19 am

MP, yeah, it’s different.
But it’s a potential PR disaster.
And that it persisted as their logo long enough for it to become a disaster indicates the people concerned are pretty daft.

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Phenyx says:

February 13, 2012 at 1:55 am

Marchpig;1703075 wrote: Er, similar, not the same tho’

I think we are splitting hairs here. Depends where you look and what image you want to post for comparison, which we could do forever if we wanted. We can find symbols ranging from extremely similar to exact.

The symbol on this SS flag is an exact copy of theirs: http://www.keepshooting.com/german-nazi-ss-flag.html

Someone (Chris Rodda) did a bit of digging and wrote a blog about it here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/2012/02/10/those-marines-bought-an-ss-flag-without-knowing-what-it-was-seriously-thats-your-excuse/

Chris also found the exact blue flag is available through Nazi suppliers: http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/files/2012/02/nazi-flags.jpg

I did a search and got the same result. So I call it exact, you call it similar. It doesn’t matter anymore because ignorance is still a good enough excuse (oh please, spare me). If they were truly ignorant, the least I can hope for is that the twits learnt some history when they discovered why people were outraged.

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