Advice Req: Which new medium sized car to buy in Australia?

[slaine1]

I'm thinking about buying a new mid sized car to see me through the next 3-5 years.

Been thinking about Focus (2.0 Zetec 5-dr hatch), Corolla, soon to be released Mazda3, that sort of size and price range (basically less than $30K)

Any suggestions?

[Buffalo]

I bought a Focus (same specs you just listed - 2.0, 5 door, Zetec) about 2 months ago and I gotta say I'm bloody happy with it.

The handling is the best of all the cars I had a test drive in - far superior. The stock stero is unreal - great bass reproduction, plus a nifty control stick on the steering column.

There is a good spread between the pedals and the seats are great - we've got leather, but the cloth ones are tops as well. The rest of the interior is well turned out as well, but some people don't like it - just not to their taste... :rolleyes:

Don't believe the TV adds though - it's quick, but it's not that quick... If you need speed, wait for the soon to be released rally spec model...

I don't know a lot about the other cars you listed. I did test drive some of them when I was shopping around, but I don't know enough about them to give a comparison.

Hope this helps - make sure you post what you end up buying.. .:)

[kré]

i've driven the newest model corolla and the astra.

the astra is nice (drove the sedan) and the interior is nice and plush, but the instrumentation is just waht you'd expect from a GM car.

the corolla on the other hand, damn. now that was a nice car. sweet interior, nice stereo system, good power, handles well. and IMO, they look the fucking goods too. just an all round good car. and also toyota's reputation for reliability is also a plus :)






now on the other hand, the other day i got to drive a 1983 5.3L V12 Jaguar XJS... :cool:

[chip256]

my boss has one of those Jags . . .

I like the Celica, but i haven't had the opportunity to drive one, so i don't really know what they're like.

[Goat Boy]

Go to http://www.drive.com.au/ it allows you to choose two cars and them compare them. Shows all the stats and what not. I did that for a few weeks and then got myself a Astra. I love it. Only thing I don't like is the indicator is on the wrong side. You get use to it also.

Also the chick that sold it to me was way fucking hot. Her name was "Kat." Uber fucking hot.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Pug 206

[plext]

Originally posted by Colonel Kurtz
Pug 206
Buffalo was considering one of those for a while, but must have rejected it for some reason.

Buffalo?

[royale]

Originally posted by plext
Buffalo was considering one of those for a while, but must have rejected it for some reason.

Buffalo?

I had a 206 GTi for a while (well technically I still have it, it will be sold on saturday) and it is the best handling car I have ever driven- on handling alone it is better than the WRX ive got now.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by plext
Buffalo was considering one of those for a while, but must have rejected it for some reason.

Buffalo?

I actually loved the 206 - The problem was simply that the pedals were too close together and my big uncoordinated feet couldn't use them properly....

To be truthfull there were a few other reasons as well - I really only wanted the 206 GTI and I wasn't really interested in any of the other models, but we needed the praticality of a four door, and the GTI only comes in a 2 door model. Also those that have met me know that I'm not a wee young man, and the 206 was just a bit to small for me...

Other than that it rocked! It's about the right price (around $30k) but it's definetly not "mid-sized".

Have you looked at the Citroen or the Renault?

[DumHed]

I'll give a vote for the corolla too.
Having been in one a bit recently I can say that they go well, handle well, and are comfortable.

They are just a damn good car, and good value. (they get ElectroLuminescent guages standard too for extra rice power) :)

[kré]

Originally posted by Buffalo
Have you looked at the Citroen or the Renault?

yeah, look at these so you can realise why the corolla/mazda3/etc are so good :)

[spurr]

I bought my Astra (CD auto hatch) new in 2000 and I've got nothing but good things to say about it.

I haven't been in a Focus, but in my book the Astra drives a lot better than the Pulsars, Corollas & also the old Laser. The build quality is top notch, to me it feels a lot more solid than the others. You get used to having the blinkers on the left in about a week.

The Astra can be a bit pricey, but Holden seem to run one of those 'free aircon, etc' promos with it at least a couple of times a year. Mine has been bomb-proof so you could probably pick up a good deal second hand as well.

[scathing]

I took one of the new Corollas for a drive a while ago, and recently I've taken the Renault Clio Sport and Holden Astra SRi Turbo for a test drive. Of all these, I'd have to say that the Astra is the nicest car to be in (ignoring performance and just talking about a comfortable car).

Haven't looked at the Focus, but then I don't like Fords of any stripe.

The other option (if you don't mind the car looking like a people mover) is the Civic. Hondas tend to be pretty fuel efficient and well made too. Not quite Toyota's reputation for build quality, but still good.

You could give the entry model Impreza a thought. Its a fair bit heavier, but AWD is good for safety. I've driven a MY01 Impreza RX around a bit, and its the kind of car I'd be happy to own.

I have an issue with buying entry model cars (for anything relatively affordable, if I could get a Porsche Boxter or Ferrari 360 I would), since I've found that mid and top-spec models from "lesser" cars tend to be better buys in terms of use. Resale is something you also need consider, but on the car's creature comforts etc I'd rather get a mid-spec Corolla / Astra than an entry model Impreza.

[slaine1]

Regarding the 206. Believe me, if I could get away with it, I would get the GTi (yep, only one I'd be interested in :D), but unfortunately the practicalities of the situation dictate that I would need to get something slightly bigger.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind the rally spec Focus (ST170 or something) but I suspect it would be way above my budget considering the zetec 2.0 is already around the $28k mark.

Buffalo, did you manage to get any of the sporty type options on your Focus, and do you think they're worth it?

Anyhow, I don't really like the looks of the Civic, it's really close between the Focus and Corolla.

I kinda like the Focus' handling and all round performance, but the gearing feels a little bit long to me... Whereas the Corolla feels more zippy, but I'm not so much in love with its looks, and it seems to rev a lot higher (fuel efficiency might suffer abit? I dunno much about the corolla's engine might be actually designed that way). And the Focus' air conditioning is supposed to use a HEPA filter, which is a BIG BONUS for asthma prone people like me.

I think I might give the Mazda3 a try as well if possible.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by slaine1
I kinda like the Focus' handling and all round performance, but the gearing feels a little bit long to me... Whereas the Corolla feels more zippy, but I'm not so much in love with its looks, and it seems to rev a lot higher (fuel efficiency might suffer abit? I dunno much about the corolla's engine might be actually designed that way). And the Focus' air conditioning is supposed to use a HEPA filter, which is a BIG BONUS for asthma prone people like me.

You've pretty much summed the contrast up perfectly - You're absolutely right about the Focus' gear ratios - I reckon it's geared a bit too long. Very fuel efficient - I fill up about once a fortnight. It does ONLY take premium though - if you put regular in it starts pinging - so the fuel cost aren't tiny.

But on the plus side there is the excellent handling, and good interior - and yes the HEPA filter is quite increadible - when you turn it on, environmental "smells" - pollen, and traffic disappear.

As for the optional extras - The AdvanceTrac system is interesting, but I never use it - I probabaly wouldn't worry about it. I also got the cruise control, trip computer and sports kit. I also had a set of rhino roof racks installed, and it sounds stupid, but they add to the look of the car.. .:)

As I said before - the leather interior is superb, at least as good as the Astra CDX, but the fabric one is excellent as well, and the Zetec comes with leather highlights (Steering wheel, gear stick and other trim) as standard.

Anyway - Good luck - Let us know how you go...

[scathing]

Originally posted by slaine1
Oh, and I wouldn't mind the rally spec Focus (ST170 or something) but I suspect it would be way above my budget considering the zetec 2.0 is already around the $28k mark.

Buffalo, did you manage to get any of the sporty type options on your Focus, and do you think they're worth it?

I kinda like the Focus' handling and all round performance, but the gearing feels a little bit long to me... Whereas the Corolla feels more zippy, but I'm not so much in love with its looks, and it seems to rev a lot higher.

I think I might give the Mazda3 a try as well if possible.

I certainly hope that the ST170 is not the "rally spec" Focus. Its normally aspirated. Its FWD. I'd love to see them do as well in the WRC with that infrastructure.

Ford was looking at building a Focus RS that was 4WD and turbocharged....but they haven't and its not looking likely that they will. They have a FWD turbocharged one in Europe (I think, stupid Euro sites don't bother telling you what the drivetrain is) but I remember hearing that they weren't going to make an AWD one. (Just found a page, yep, FWD.)

As an aside, when they did the comparo of the hot hatches in that price range (around $40K), the Astra SRi Turbo still won. It didn't handle quite as well (some British journos said that the Focus ST170 outhandles a WRX on the track, in the wet) but it still handled pretty well, but it totally shits on the Focus in terms of power and torque spread.

What are the sporty options are there? I checked Ford's site (http://www.fordfocus.com.au/home/accessories_interactive/), and all the options are all cosmetic. It'll make the car look and feel nicer (which is subjective of course) so its up to the individual to determine if its "worth it".

I found the same problem with the Corolla. With the 1.8L VVTi engine, it just lacks balls down low. I was used to a car with a nice spread of torque, and having to rev it out and row the gearbox annoying. Personally, I wouldn't buy a small / medium car running anything less than 2.0L litres (I'd go 1.8L if it had a turbocharger). High RPM doesn't necessarily dictate high fuel use, but day to day it does dictate engine noise.

The Mazda3 promises to look nice, and if the Mazda2 and Mazda6 are any indications, it'll handle well and have a nice interior. It might be worth the wait.

[DumHed]

the base model 'rolla actually seems to have a lot more low end grunt.. I was very impressed with the way it'll go up hills at low rpm and not complain in the slightest.

[plext]

Four wheel drive is not always a good thing.

I drove the Audi RS6 before deciding on my latest car, and to be honest, it was as dull as dishwater.

Yes immensely powerful (though power loss through a 4wd system is hideous)
Yes immensely fast.
Yes immensely capable.

The car just had no "soul" if you will. It did what it was designed to do but left no striking impression upon me as an intriguing drive.

I had it for a weekend and covered about 700 miles in it, but it left me cold. I believe the four wheel drive had a fair hand in this, the steering was lifeless and like most four wheelers it understeered with startling determination at the (admittedly very high) limit.

Putting 170 HP through the front end of a car as well sorted as the Focus is not a problem as far as I see it. Four wheel drive would only really lead to power loss through the drivetrain and add a heap of weight.

Sure it would get off the mark smartly, however would it make it better at anything but the traffic light grand prix?

I'm thinking probably not.

[scathing]

Originally posted by plext
Four wheel drive is not always a good thing.

Putting 170 HP through the front end of a car as well sorted as the Focus is not a problem as far as I see it. Four wheel drive would only really lead to power loss through the drivetrain and add a heap of weight.

The problem with the RS6's lack of feedback in handling isn't 4WD's problem. Audi does that with all their cars. Its the most common complaint on all their vehicles. They're solid on the straight-ahead, but the steering is lifeless (and even the RS series are set up for understeer) and vague just off centre. Then again, I've heard similar complaints over the AMG E55, which is rear driving. Great on an autobahn, but not fun fanging it around some corners.

Hell, you can set the suspension for any car to be understeery. Ask people who've been driving Porsche 911's through the 80's what they think of the 993 and 996.

Go take one of the sports AWDs (like an Evo, 996 Turbo, or GT-R) for a test drive, and get back to me if you think their steering and handling is lifeless and dull. I realise its not in your sphere of interest, but when you're talking about $200K+ Euro saloons, the demographic that buys these aren't after pin-sharp handling. They're after a status symbol that's a solid cruiser.

Anyway, when it comes to understeer, the inherent design problems that 4WD have are just because the car happens to be FWD too. If Ford can make the front end as responsive as they do with the ST170, then it can be done with any 4WD car.

My complaint wasn't purely that the ST170 is FWD. 170hp isn't that much in the grand scheme of things anyway. 4WD might have been overkill for that much power.

What I would have liked to have seen the Focus RS (which has around 215kW) being a 4WD car. If you wanted to make a "rally spec" road car, it should resemble the racing one in spec. 215kW isn't fun through the front wheels (see Saab 9-3 Viggen) and, if you start tuning it (and how easy is it to get big numbers from a turbocharged engine?) you're going to want to split the drive across all the wheels.

[plext]

The AMG is indeed a foul handler. A short test drive of about 45 mins was enough for me to cross it off the list. It's problems lie more in the direction of CDG pandering to the tastes of American businessmen who do not like overtly firm suspension.

My post was really aimed to balance the commonly held belief that "hey it's got AWD, it must drive well". I have seen your posts in regards to things vehicular in the past, and would not place you anywhere near that group.

If a chassis is well sorted to start with, front, rear or all wheels it matters not, the car will be entertaining. No amount of driving wheels will fix bad one.

I shall now cease and desist thus allowing the thread to get back on topic. :)

[scathing]

Right you are. I'll start a new thread on this anyway, if you want to continue to discuss it. Back on topic:

slaine1 - have you taken the cars around for a test drive yet? Which ones have you done?

Post your thoughts and opinions here. :)

[CMYK]

I just bought an Astra Hatch CDX. I got an electric sunroof put in it. I get it through a company lease and we get a bit of a fleet discount so it came in at about $31K.

I pick it up in 2 weeks. I am looking forward to it. It has electric everything, cruise, climate control a/c, airbags all over the place, leather, heated seats...

My only lament is that I'm swapping my WRX for it. At least I can expect fewer speeding tickets...

[royale]

Originally posted by plext
The car just had no "soul" if you will. It did what it was designed to do but left no striking impression upon me as an intriguing drive.

Exactly my opinion of Audi/VW, very capable, all the goodies, but no soul.

[scathing]

Originally posted by royale
Exactly my opinion of Audi/VW, very capable, all the goodies, but no soul.

Especially modern VW, in my opinion. Its for people who want a commuter, not a driver's car. Look at the ass-raping they gave the Golf GTi. The current one doesn't deserve that badge.

Audi tries to inject some identity into their cars, but its more on the way it looks (exterior and interior) than the way it goes.

The performance blandness not necessarily a bad thing, but its nothing more than a motorised chair. A comfortable, solidly built, well appointed chair....but nothing more than a tool. Its not something you'll look back on fondly (until you get senile).

[royale]

Originally posted by scathing
Especially modern VW, in my opinion. Its for people who want a commuter, not a driver's car. Look at the ass-raping they gave the Golf GTi. The current one doesn't deserve that badge.

And the TT (The worlds first car that can do a 180, and no one would notice)... and Bentley... and the new Lambo...
All vehicles that could look great, but are missing the same something that makes Alfa, Ferrari, Porsche, BMW etc look so sexy.

[slaine1]

Yes, I have actually tested the Focus, Corolla Ascent, and the Astra.

I think I already posted my thoughts on the focus (nice handling, engine could do with more grunt, HEPA filtering airconditioning is a plus) and the Corolla (revs abit high for my taste).

As for the Astra, I like it, but somehow not quite as much for some reason I can't quite pinpoint. Maybe it's the interior layout or something. Also, the price is not so compelling once you put in all the options (the price starts stacking up).

I have also been recommended by some friends to consider the base model Mazda6, the base model comes in around $28k and virtually all mod cons, but it's a sedan, which I'm not so fond of, and also a bit bigger than I'd ideally like.

I'd say that the Focus is currently the (marginal) front runner. Quite frankly, I could live with any of the three cars I've tested, so the HEPA filter air-conditioning might well be the deciding factor in terms of driver comfort for the asthma prone.

[scathing]

Somewhat off topic (lets hope it doesn't get deleted) but I took a Nissan 350Z for a test drive today.

Yum.

[DrDivad]

FWD makes great rally car, though that back end around!

[thingy]

I too am now into the car market. Been thinking of losing the bike for the last few months, but I've been riding it just to keep her going and finding more excuses to keep her. Motorshow, sitting in the drivers seats got the desire for a car I can actually "drive" instead of just drive again (as I have to do in the van, and haven't done for a few years now).

Haven't taken anything for test drives yet, can only go from sitting in cars and seeing what the driving position is like. Corolla isn't bad, but I feel too high. Just doesn't quite feel right. Reno Clio the gearstick is too far forwards and has a long throw. Corolla could do with having it a bit further back too. Subaru Impreza RS was about as perfect as perfect gets as far as driving position goes.

The high revving doesn't seem that much an issue to me. Those who have been in the ZBus know the power it has, but I'm also used to the VW beetle my parents had until '98, and the Lancer we got to replace it. Both lacking in power & requiring lots of revving. Lancer was very soft though and poor handling. They haven't done that much to them so it's out right now (once again, kickass driving position but the top of the range like the pulsar is still being equivelant to most companys entry level kinda ruins it).

Next few weekends shall start taking things for test drives. I've got plenty of time as there's a few things I want to get done first. Didn't sit in the Focus. I shall keep everyone updated on my thoughts too.

[scathing]

I did suggest the Impreza GX earlier, since its well below the $30K price roof slaine1 set. You always want to leave room for options.

The only option you'd want to add would be the $1875 air con on it.


What I'm confused about now is where the Impreza RX sits. Its about $2000 cheaper than the RS (and $4000 more expensive than the GX), which is the same car with a bigger engine.

112kW over 92kW, and 223Nm over 184Nm means that you're getting about 20% more power, but only 20kg more mass.

Aside from that, they're identical. So why choose the smaller engine? $2000 isn't an insignificant amount of money, but that means you should just save for a deposit for a tad longer.

I might try going and taking one for a test drive tomorrow. I'll let you know my thoughts and opinions on it when I can.


I have driven the auto Impreza RX (MY01), and it is a nice car. Even with the auto and 4WD, the car has a good amount of acceleration (it helps that Subaru uses a relatively close ratio gearbox, since the AWD system means you're not likely to break traction). The steering is fast and communicative. Its no sports RWD in terms of steering feel, but its better than a lot of FWD econoboxes I've driven.

Cornering wasn't too bad. Actually, the ride / cornering compromise is excellent. It isn't as harsh as your crop of Japanese hot hatches, but if you do decide to take the car for some spirited cornering, the car does go where its told to, and when you exceed those limits its gradual and easy to bring back on line. See this (http://forums.zgeek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12496) thread about the Impreza's "handling" (which is more grip than handling), but as long as it works for your average driver.......

Given that its auto, I can't tell you anything about how the clutch / shifter feels. The auto box isn't too bad. It doesn't constantly irritate me like my current daily driver (which is a BMW), and the staggered gate doesn't take long to get used to.

The seats are nice, and the Momo wheel and leather shift knob does feel good in the hands. The interior doesn't look too bad either. Its not a bad place to be spending time while getting from A to B.

[slaine1]

Originally posted by scathing

I have driven the auto Impreza RX (MY01), and it is a nice car. Even with the auto and 4WD, the car has a good amount of acceleration (it helps that Subaru uses a relatively close ratio gearbox, since the AWD system means you're not likely to break traction). The steering is fast and communicative. Its no sports RWD in terms of steering feel, but its better than a lot of FWD econoboxes I've driven.


Well, I've actually driven a recent Impreza RS (2002 model) manual, and I've gotta say, that gearbox is abit of a bitch to handle. Even my friend who owned it admitted that the shifting from 2nd -> 3rd gear wasn't all that great and was prone to bouncing out after apparently shifting for no apparent reason.

Maybe I'm just a bad driver, but I've never really had trouble with other cars tho. Other than that it's a great car, but it's been banned in the family for various other reasons we shan't get into :D

[scathing]

I've just gotten back to the Subaru dealership. They didn't have an Impreza RS available for a test drive, but they did have a WRX.

I have to agree with slaine1 on that gearbox. The 2nd to 3rd throw is an absolute bitch. The two times I attempted to hurry it, I banged it into the gate. I have *never* had that problem in any other car, especially not twice in a row. Even in the other gears, the throw was a lot longer than I was expecting from this much-vaunted sports car.

Grip levels were, of course, fantastic. Pulling right out of a side street and flooring the car just after letting the clutch out completely in first, no wheelspin. With the fastish rack, I actually over turned when I got into the main road and had to countersteer anyway.

Acceleration is as you'd expect. You can feel the turbo start to build from just under 3000RPM, and 500RPM later there's that trademark turbo rush all the way to redline. Very gratifying, though obviously an aftermarket exhaust would make the car so much more addictive.

Brakes weren't too bad, but I didn't really punish them. Feel wasn't the best in the world, but as I said I didn't really try hammering them.

I also finally understand why 4WD clutches tend to die quickly. On those fast shifts, I just let the clutch out quickly and the car would just lurch, bogging down because of the amount of grip. The 2WD cars I've done that in have been much smoother on fast shifts when you practically sidestep the clutch - I looked like an L plater trying to get used to the friction point in the WRX.

The cabin is still very passenger car. The seats are nice and supportive, and the Momo wheel is good. Compared to some of the other cars I've been testing (200SX, 350Z, Integra Type-R, Holden Astra SRi Turbo) its nowhere near as nice and sexy, but that's not everyone's cup of tea. As I said earlier, the interior is a good place to be spending time by passenger car standards though.

Would I buy one? Perhaps if I needed a four door car but still wanted to have a car I could enjoy driving.