V8 vs. turbo thread.

[excalibur]

I have been meaning to start this for a little while, mainly to try to stop it in other threads.

I am on the side of those that are greatly outnumbered on Zgeek. My personal preference goes to big cars with 8 cylinder motors. Supercharger would be good but not vital, it becomes too impractical.

My idea car as I said on the "Dream car" thread is an XB falcon 2 door (if I can find one that's in decent nick) but a 4 door will do. with a 351 windsor under the bonnet, 4 on the floor top loader gearbox, and a 9 inch LSD.

The 351 would be run through a 3 inch twin exhaust off a set of genie headers.

I prefer V8's to turbo 4's and 6's, because they have instant power, there is no lag, I believe they sound so much better. As most V8 designs are motors from the 50's and 60's, they are almost bullet proof. You have to do something very drastic to kill a old ford or chev V8. There are no computers in them, so work is easily carried out without a computer science degree. (I know this makes them less efficient.)

I also realise they are large, heavy motors with lots of reciprocating mass. In saying that though, they rev at about 1/2 the speed of a turbo pulling the same power rating.

I'll leave it for now, I'll see what others have to say.

[Nodbugger]

What about a V-8 with a blower? I would vote for that.

I love the sound of American muscle. It is just an extremely great sound. You can hear it coming and you know exactly what it is.

Like in that both Fast and Furious movies. That had battles between 4/6 cylinders and 8 cylinder muscle cars. Lets just say either they made the muscle cars under powered or the 4/6 cylinders over powered.

[royale]

Why choose between a turbo or a V8?

http://www.audi.com.au//upload/425.jpg

German engineered bi-turbo 4.2L V8 all wheel drive wagon...is there anything it cant do?

Normally Audi/VW are at the lower end of my wish list, but currrently the RS6 is No 1.

[chip256]

Jet engines. Turbines are cool.

I saw a motorcycle once that had a jet engine in it. The reviewer commented that it looked weird to have the tacho start at 20k :)

Failing that though, hamster wheels. :D

[Necron]

I love V8's, I also dont mind a bit of the V6 turbo/supercharger powered cars, saying this I own a V6 Holden Commodore VT. Also noting that I do know the limitations of any type of car but I would have to say that without starting the "war on size" aka WWIII I think it is purely personal preference.

I do love one or two American muscle cars Like the ford Mustang and the Dodge Charger, great V8's with plenty of appeal.

[thingy]

Nothing beats the sound of a muscle car, but I prefer the feel of a lighter more agile vehicle, something you can only get from a turbo'd 4-pot (or motorbike). Those large cars have crap handling. Straight lines bore the shit out of me, I get a hell of a lot more fun out of corners which the muscle cars are complete shit for.

[SamBo]

I prefer the turbo 4 or 6 cylindars

Although, i have never driven a v8 before.

I really enjoy feeling that powerful pull as a turbo comes onto boost.

So yeah, i'm a fan of the turboed smaller engines, but i'm not the type of person who then automatically hates all v8s etc. V8s are cool, i just think most of the people who drive them are dickheads (although I guess the same applies to turboed cars too....)

[Necron]

Originally posted by SamBo
[Bbut i'm not the type of person who then automatically hates all v8s etc. V8s are cool, i just think most of the people who drive them are dickheads (although I guess the same applies to turboed cars too....) [/B]

Here here, I see more than a few dickheads with turbo'd 4's on the road. I guess that I dont notice the V8's V6's that much because Im in that range, Most cars that pick on me are smaller turbo'd cars. Ive found that most people with a similarly powered car (same type engine) will for the most part leave you alone.

But anyone with a car= Potential to be a right Cocksmoker

[psi_ko]

depends on the car

a v8 sounds beaut with its roar....a turbo sounds awesome with its vroooom pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


a twin turbo 6 has my vote tho..

[PooJooce]

my windows startup sound is Max's XB driving off, from the start of Mad Max... need I say more.

[RASPUTIN]

I love either. Nothing sounds better than the V8 roar. I've never owned a v8 due to the expense of them so have always owned turbo 4's/rotaries. My fastest car was an RX-4 with a highly worked monster port. The only thing that ever beat it was a xc falcon. 5.8lt bored out to 6.2 with nitros. Now that was a scary car. Rev'ed to 10k got to top speed in moments (200+ mph) mine only did 295kms and took quite a bit longer. Still when we came to a corner, hehe he was braking and I was accellerating.

One thing about rotaries I like is they take most fuels. My mate runs a company that installs fuel tanks at airports. You should hear what a rotary sounds like with av gas in it. They make a crackling sound. Better still at idle 2 inch flames are shooting out the back. Never seen what it looks like driving but the back of the car glowed.

PS your dream car is one of mine. That or a Skyline :)

[DumHed]

I like my cars light and responsive, which basically means I'm in the turbo 4 (or even n/a 4) crowd. I don't care about stright line acceleration, but I do care about laggy power delivery and lacking low end torque.
My car is currently making about 225kw, or 300hp at the engine, which is decent power for a V8, but I get 10L/100km or better fuel econonmy (500km out of a tank before the fuel light comes on) and since the car's so much lighter it goes faster, stops better, and handling is in a completely different league to most larger cars.

My engine is a 2L twin cam 4 cylinder, running about 10:1 compression, and only 6psi of boost from a fairly large but efficient turbo. Full boost is available from under 2500rpm, and the torque curve (flat really) is almost the same as a large capacity naturally aspirated engine, except that it extends much longer.
I get huge torque, and smooth power delivery, with excellent throttle response from 3000rpm to over 7000.

[Asmodeus]

Nothing like the roar of good ol' detroit muscle.
The turbo 4-6 bangers just sound like angry lawn mower engines to me

no, im talking big noisy grinding 8 blasting cylinders of pure pumping power.. 454 Chevy 4 bolt main, dual 850 holleys on a supercharger, gear drive, tuned headers, msd ignition, big ol hairy cam .. excuse my, i think i just made a sticky in my shorts

yeah, i've driven both types before since i'm the test dummy for my dad and some of teh other local gear heads so they can see what their car looks liek when it does its thing from teh outside insead of teh drivers seat. I have to say, 8 cyl w a blower,.. instant power. if you can keep the tires grabbing the street you get pushed back in that seat HARD.

but, those are two completely different styles of motors. the 4-6 cyls generate a lot of rpm's, the 8 cyls generate ungodly amounts of torque, especially on the low end. thus the gearing it totally different and so on. overall, i find the larger engines more fun to work on. they're infinitely more forgiving in their setup and tuning and much easier to tune by ear

[royale]

"Nothing like the roar of good ol' detroit muscle."

Except the roar of a boxer ;).
In terms of engine sound Ill take
1)911 turbo
2)Subaru EJ20T (with non factory muffler)
3)Dodge Viper V10
=4)Aussie/US V8
=4)Eurpoean performance 8/6
5)Jap performance 6
6)Jap performance inline 4

But obviously the Aussie/US V8 is the one most commonly heard 'horny' sounding car around.

[Megabyte]

Oh no...

The boyfriend likes V8's and the brother is a turbo man.

I think it's best if I just get splinters in my arse and sit on the fence for this one. :p

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by Nodbugger
Lets just say either they made the muscle cars under powered or the 4/6 cylinders over powered.

Actually the bit about a Jap turbo being able to obliterate a muscle car is one of the only remotely factual elements of those movies.

[V_Max]

I don't want to say "V8s" because the Ford/Holden type don't exactly excite me, and they sound like they're not quite running right. But I do want to say "V8s" because the best sounding and most fun car I've ever driven was a V8, however it was a 3.5L flat plane crank version, so it's not really the same experience as the more common sort :)
Otherwise, failing that, I will stick with "other" and say that 8 cylinders is 4 too few :)

[Hired Goon]

I like the old V8s cos they sound great - but fuel gets used up pretty quickly i guess.

I have a V6 VT commodore (boring), but I did drive my dad's statesman which was a 5.7 litre V8. Two things I didn't like about it:
-the note on it was only good when you were hammering
-the engine is almost too big. You can feel that the car has still got a lot of power at 130k +, but how often can u use that? I would prefer a smaller V8 with a bit of a power in the lower range.

Haven't driven a turbo, so I don't know about that...

[That_Bloke]

When people start a debate on V8s versus other types of engines it seems that even the person who started the debate has missed the point, it's not really about the number of cylinders or lack there of, It's really a debate over size & technology, it's purely coincidence that the V8s we're most familiar with a giant clunking dinosaurs & the 4s & 6s we see are small & technically advanced but it doesn't have to be that way.
If the 4s & 6s were giant clunkers(& there has been some like a 4litre 4cyl & a 5.5litre 6 cyl) then we'd probably not be very fond of them.
(now I'm going to get all scientific & boring on you)

In theory clearly the more cylinders you have the smoother the engine should be(since every shift of mass inside (ie: a piston moving or crank moving) the engine will be counter acted by another & stresses in the engine should be less due to the reduction of the mass of componants(such as pistons) , & more pistons will often equate to greater efficiency & fuel economy, However as the engines get larger(& the V8s we're used to are usually bordering on excessively large) these benifits quickly disappear.

V8s needn't be large, Suzuki experimented with a 1.8litre V8, The Daimler 250 Dart & some Mk1 & Mk2 Jaguars featured a V8 of only 2.5litres

100hp per litre is considered a benchmark power output for an engine & for engines upto 3litres power outputs often come close & sometimes even excede even in standard form, The old way of thinking is that if you want more power you just make an engine bigger which does work to an extent but the larger you make an engine the harder it is to get 100hp per litre, most engines of 5 litres or over don't even come close(atleast not in standard form), they often don't even put out a great deal more than an engine of about 3litres.

Big low tech engines just don't make sense, Sure smaller engines have to rev alot harder to make the power but they still do it more efficiently & often last longer, sure friction does damage componants but not nearly as much as the metal fatigue caused by recipricating mass which is going to be a greater problem in a large engine on account of the large pistons & such.

It's for this reason(plus generally being more high tech) that the smaller turbo 4s & 6s are superior to the popular V8s

Rotary engines almost completely over come the problem of reciprocating mass(there is a slight eccentric motion in the rotor) by not having any pistons, for this reason they are potentially more energey efficient by not having to convert linier motion(like a piston going up & down) into torque, In theory they should be more fuel efficient & more powerful than any comparable piston engine.
In practice they are immensely more powerful that any piston engine of comparable size but the fuel effiency part needs work but it will happen one day, Rotary engines rev very high, as high as 25,000rpm in road going versions & they don't idle very well which makes them possibly not the best thing for a car that drives on anything but open road.

[Salted_Chipmunk]

Steve Sandlins Octet of Turbos will own you all.

http://www.lateral-g.net/sandlin/carlisle.jpg

I still think that he should have just gone twin turbo.

Theres no way that he could get that much air to have the turbos running at any worthwile boost.

Video is cool though

http://www.lateral-g.net/sandlin/

I personally like 4 bangers, i like the nimbleness of the cars and fuel economy of them. Sure, a big v8 sounds like the dogs bollocks, but just aint for me. Each to their own.


I've since got over my thirst for speed, after loosing my license once, i dont want this to happen again, speeding is only going to make matters worse. My lil 1.6 does me fine and accelerates quick enough for a bit of fun now and then and loves the corners.

[DJos]

i luv V8's & V8 SuperCar racing but I'd luv an Evo IIIV or Skyline GT-R R34 & would pick either over a FPV GT-P given a choice between them. (not a fan of HSV's - nice motors but pure Hoon styling with 0 taste!)

[Salted_Chipmunk]

Originally posted by DJos
Evo IIIV or

Evo II or VIII ????

I prefer the earlier ones to the new evo's

[biomechanic]

http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/timeline/67-68/67/eleanor/mustang_monthly.jpg


Supercharged 7 litre V8 with Nitrous? Yes please.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Engine

Completely restored automobile
(from a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback)
Carroll Shelby Performance 427 Aluminum FE engine
Shelby Vortech® Supercharger, provides 750 HP
Visteon® F75U high torque starter
8 Quart Canton® oil pan, pick up tube, dip stick
Shelby trim valve covers and air cleaner
850 CFM Holley® Carburetor, Polished single line
Transmission

Upgraded Hi-Torque 5-speed Tremec® TKO transmission
Electronic Speedo®
4130 front & rear u-joints
Balanced aluminum driveshaft sized for transmission
Clutch

12 1/2" Diaphragm clutch
Tilton® hydraulic clutch
Rear End

Currie 31 spline 9" posi-traction trac-locker
3.25 gears
Steering

Power steering Type II
Total Control Products® rack & pinion steering kit
Baer® tracker bump steer adjustable tie rods
Wheels

New 17”X 8” Shelby rims with 245/40ZR17, Z-rated tires
Cooling

Griffin® aluminum cross flow radiator
SPAL® 2 each, 10" electric cooling fan, pull type
SPAL® 1 each, 10" electric cooling fan, push type
Exhaust

JBA® tuned headers with ceramic plating
2 1/2" Spintech® mufflers
2 1/2" aluminum pipe side exhaust system with tips
Dual 2.5" exhaust with “H” pipe
Brakes

Front: Baer® 13 X 1.1 Track System, PBR 2 piston aluminum
Rear: Baer® 12 X .81 Touring System, PBR 1 piston aluminum
Slotted, cross drilled & zinc washed
Adjustable rear bias proportioning valve
Electrical

Trunk mounted battery with heavy-duty cable
MSD® Ignition Control
MSD® Coil
Interior

SCAT Enterprises hi-back wrap around bucket seats
LaCarra® 15” wooden steering wheel for Cobras
JME Enterprises with Auto Meter Shelby Signature Series Gauges
200 MPH speedometer
10,000 RPM tachometer
1/2" roll bar assembly, 4-point
Eclipse® Stereo with CD & amplifier
New technology A/C and heat system
Cascade Audio full sound insulation
Exterior

Shelby emblems
Complete paint & stripes
Special striping for Super Snake(thin-wide-thin)
Functional S/C Cobra style gas lid
Sequential taillights (Shelby style)
Eleanor light package
Suspension

Front: Total Control Products® coil-over kit
Rear: KYB® gas shocks
Shelby style traction bars
Front stock sway bar
Lowering blocks
3.25:1 9" Gears
Fuel

NOS® system – 125 shot
Holley® carburetor
Unleaded gasoline capabilities
1/2 inch stainless braided fuel line
In-line fuel filter
Electric fuel pump and fuel regulation
Fuel safe 16-gallon fuel cell
Additional charge options:

Eclipse® DVD Stereo
Eclipse® DVD Dolby® mobile theater system
8 disc CD changer
9.5" X 17" PS Engineering® wheels
11" X 17" PS Engineering® wheels
leather upgrade
custom paint colors
MTC enhanced lighting system
22 gallon racing fuel tank
Total Control Products® rear coil over suspension
Cascade Audio upgraded acoustic control

[DJos]

Originally posted by Salted_Chipmunk
VIII ????



yeah that one! *doh*

[landmachine]

i think the point is that they're all just cars, who really gives a flying fuck. surely you've got something better to do with your time?

[damo]

Hard to say, I think I'd go for turbo 4 or 6, but the Mitsubishi MIVEC's are great engines, naturaly aspirated V6, I think there is also a 4.

The only V8 I have ever driven was a fantastic car too, bit out of my price range, it was the Managing Director's Mercedes Benz S500. Dont tell him but I got it up to 170kph, then though fuck I'm doing 170kph and its like I'm going 60, apart from all the cars fading into the distance at an unbelievable rate.

[Drakin]

*counts cylinders* 1...2....3

*stays out of convo*

[Bussie]

If you ever get the chance try on a V12 Jag for size, a friends father has one which he has worked up and charged. Very mind blowing.

[Salted_Chipmunk]

Originally posted by Drakin
*counts cylinders* 1...2....3

*stays out of convo*

Daihastu Charade reprezent!

I had an old old Charade, 990cc's of raw power, and i have to say, that has been the most fun car to drive that i have ever had.

No matter how hard i tried, the thing just wouldn't die. You could rev the fuck out of it all day long and it asked for more.

I wish i still had that car :(

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by biomechanic



Supercharged 7 litre V8 with Nitrous? Yes please.
-------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder what the life span of that engine is? 7 litres is excessive, imagine the reciprocating mass in that

[Pirate]

Can I just tell you guys my pain? I've gone from my hot sexy black xr6 to driving a daewoo cielo.

Can someone please give me $10,000 to buy one of these (http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_SM/0017-0404-1219-1426_SM.jpg) to build into the world coolest geek enabled car.

Carn. Please.

[damo]

Originally posted by Pirate
Can I just tell you guys my pain? I've gone from my hot sexy black xr6 to driving a daewoo cielo.

Can someone please give me $10,000 to buy one of these (http://www.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_SM/0017-0404-1219-1426_SM.jpg) to build into the world coolest geek enabled car.

Carn. Please.

That is so very wrong

[psi_ko]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
I wonder what the life span of that engine is? 7 litres is excessive, imagine the reciprocating mass in that

there was a chrysler charger that had a 7L v8 engine and didnt that monaro in the bathurst 24 hour have a 7L?

one day im gonna restore a charger.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by psi_ko
there was a chrysler charger that had a 7L v8 engine and didnt that monaro in the bathurst 24 hour have a 7L?


Yes but not a standard one & Yes the 24 hour monaros are 7 litre but then again there engines are rebuilt after each race & they are only putting out 600hp which is short of the 100hp per litre benchmark.

[V_Max]

...which isn't to say they wouldn't be 800+ if shorn of air restrictors and the need to look slow for political reasons...

[scathing]

In a perfect world, I'd have two cars with two very different engines.

In one corner of my 2 spot garage, I'd have a stripped out non-turbo 4 cylinder (or a turbo 4 like Dumhed's, that runs NA compression and low boost) in a stupidly light car. Say, something like this (http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/) where the Type-R engine is ditched, and a turbo Nissan 4-pot is installed (not that the 200hp Type-R engine would be bad either).

In the other corner, I'd get that RS6. Then do minor mods to it to make more power more of the time, but unlike the Atom where I'd be spending a lot of dosh on performance mods, the RS6 would get a lot more money dropping in a kick-arse ICE.

Each car has their place, and it depends on what you want. If you want a car that cruises effortlessly and can tackle the occasional sweeper, its hard to get past big displacement and a high cylinder count, in a wide and heavy car. If you want a car that will carve corners, the laws of physics says you need low mass (which the engine block of a large capacity engine can't offer you).

At the moment, I'm still young enough to want a corner carver. Straight line stuff is only of marginal interest (I have done a few high speed runs in my car, but aside from the fear of tyre delamination and spinning out, it doesn't have the same kind of andrenaline rush and sense of accomplishment that tackling my favourite mountain road does) so I want something lighter.

I've driven a VT Series I Commodore, and the sound of that cast iron 308 with a mandrel bent exhaust was great, as well as the thrust you get when you planted it (compared to my hot hatch at the time) - but when cornering you really noticed the mass, and that it was relying on tyre grip more than suspension to get around that bend.

The biggest rush I've had is sitting in Dumhed's old Silvia (the NA one) going down a gorge, hanging on to the Jesus bar while he flung that car around these blind, narrow corners.

The way I see it, V8s are for old people or the unco-ordinated. They're for people who don't have the reactions, skills, or interest to drive a "racer" sports car in its natural element. Racing around tends to be a young man's hobby - older people are more sedate than that.

However, they can still get their thrills by planting it and going fast in a straight line. All they have to do is hold the wheel steady with both hands, and push the right pedal.


I already feel myself slowing down. I can't attack corners like I used to. I also like a car that's comfortable, solid, and has creature comforts. But, I still want to go around nailing it through some country roads.

My current car sits more in the GT class. Its a compromise car - half way between a light racer and a big cruiser. It won't cut through tight switchbacks as quickly as a turbo 4, nor will it hold speed and big distances like a big V8, but its more stable than the 4 and faster around the bends than an 8.

Its not a perfect car - it does nothing well. When I'm driving with friends, I wish it was 300kg lighter. When I'm commuting around town or driving on the expressway, I wish the engine was spinning 500RPM lower, the suspension was more compliant, and had more room.

[excalibur]

Sure V8's have a high reciprocating mass, but you alo need to take into account that most V8's wil rev no higher than about 6 thousand RPM. 6's will rev anywhere up to about 8 thousand, and 4's up to about 10.

One of the most efficient types of engines is a 3 litre V8, or a 1.5 litre 4 pot. That cylinder/displacement ratio is that magic point that you get best efficiency for power. SoI agree that most V8's are an excessive size to be efficient. Where I grew up, the V8 reigned supreme, because it was in a country town, you would drive 1/2 an hour to the next town to go to the movies. On the highway, an 8 uses marginally more than a 6, and you have the power on demand when you want it.

Ford also won LeMans for 4 years running I think it was with the GT 40. they ran a 302 V8 for 3 of the models, and a 7 litre for the other.

Something like this may appeal to most. Approx 900 Kg fibreglass body, with a choice of 2 motors, the Ford 302, or 351, running through a top loader box.

Have a look at the nagari (http://www.bolwellcarclub.com.au/models.htm)

[Nodbugger]

Im surprised a lot of you have never driven a V8.

I gues it is because my car is a V8

4.6L 281 cubic-inch SOHC V8 producing 205 HP @ 4250 RPM, & 280 ft/lbs torque @ 3000 RPM

[scathing]

Is that all?

My car makes 280hp at 6200RPM and and 267lbs/ft at 4800RPM, and I've got over half a litre less displacement.

My engine is also understressed to make those levels of power; when you drive it you can feel the exhaust strangle the engine at the top end.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by excalibur
Sure V8's have a high reciprocating mass, but you alo need to take into account that most V8's wil rev no higher than about 6 thousand RPM. 6's will rev anywhere up to about 8 thousand,[/URL]

5,000-6,000rpm is redline for most large standard V8s, they get towards 8,000rpm when modified, engines of 6litre or more(& even VW flat 4s bored to 3.2 litre) have been known bend or break expensive forged conrods & even snap steel crank shafts at less than 8,000rpm, in sub 3.5 litre(for 8s or 6s)/sub 2.5litre 4s running as high as 12,500rpm this kind of damage is alot rarer.

[Nodbugger]

Originally posted by scathing
Is that all?

My car makes 280hp at 6200RPM and and 267lbs/ft at 4800RPM, and I've got over half a litre less displacement.

My engine is also understressed to make those levels of power; when you drive it you can feel the exhaust strangle the engine at the top end.

What kind of car? And is it stock?

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by Nodbugger
What kind of car? And is it stock?

What's it matter if it's stock, according to what you've said earlier yours isn't stock anyway.

I think Scathing has a Ford(Australia) Falcon XR6 Turbo, 280hp is it's standard power output, it's a 4litre inline 6 cylinder double overhead cam with variable valve timing.



Edit, Opps, Scathing doesn't drive a Nissan Silvia, Anyway a Nissan Silvia/sx200, They are 2 litre 4 cylinder turbos & put out 207kw(277hp)

[Nodbugger]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
What's it matter if it's stock, according to what you've said earlier yours isn't stock anyway.

I think he has a Nissan Silvia/sx200, They are 2 litre 4 cylinder turbos & put out 207kw(277hp)

the numbers I gave are what Ford gives as stock.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by Nodbugger
the numbers I gave are what Ford gives as stock.

Still not that impressive for an engine that size, were those figure for the turbo or the non turbo?, Anyway, I seem to remember you saying elsewhere that yours only puts out 240hp.

[scathing]

Originally posted by Nodbugger
What kind of car? And is it stock?

I drive a Nissan Fairlady. Which is normally aspirated. And yes, its stock.

[scathing]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
I think Scathing has a Ford(Australia) Falcon XR6 Turbo, 280hp is it's standard power output, it's a 4litre inline 6 cylinder double overhead cam with variable valve timing.

I would never refer to the Ford XR6 (turbo or not) or the Silvia as a grand tourer - in my opinion a grand tourer is a purpose built sports coupe that happens to be larger and heavier than your nimble racers. They tend to be more plush, with a long wheelbase and extra mass making it stable on straights and sweepers. Stuff like the Lexus SC430, Ford Mustangs, and at the more expensive end the Jaguar XK8's, and Ferrari 456M's are grand tourers. Not slow in the straights or around the bends by any stretch of the imagination, but they're not going to catch a Lotus Elise or Integra Type-R through a tight set of switchbacks.

The Silvia, and other "racer" coupes, is a lot lighter and a lot quicker than a grand tourer on the twisties. The car's more focused on being fast on the track and on your mountain road, so it'll have a small engine that has to be revved harder to make power. They're a more visceral drive, but ultimately less comfortable.

The XR6 is a sports sedan, a family car with a new engine and bolt-on mods. The Falcon wasn't purpose built as a sports car, but the manufacturer realised that it needs sports variants to add a halo to the series, and make them all more popular.

[DumHed]

my engine's 2L, is internally stock, and is making 300hp

It does have a turbo bolted on the side of it, but it's only running 6psi :)

[kré]

i'd prefer an n/a 4 banger, but out of those listed i'll take an 8 kthx.

[muga]

Well, I drive an SS ute at the moment and I must say these things are fantastic to drive around in. They handle just as good if not better than your regular done up Subaru WRX's and have the power on top of that.

I don't hate turbo'ed cars but to me they just seem like a waste of money and seem to be needing work done with them to often. These days you can get yourself a stock V8 that goes just as good as a 4-banger that cost near double the price once all your mods have been installed to make it as good (if not better) V8 then run in to something like a gearbox giving way because of the turbo. To me that sounds stupid, I don't understand it.

When people talk about how V8's cant go around corners as good as smaller cars its pretty stupid as the way the new V8's are designed they can go just as quick around it as small cars. The older style V8's well, everyone knows that thoes things are made for straight roads, but today's cars are designed to have both the power and mobility and that's the way it should be.

I have seen some done up 4-bangers that are a hell of a lot faster than your regular V8 that's on the road but with all the stupid sounds that come out of it it would just be something that would shit me to death. The over-done exhaust is by far the worst thing ever that's for sure, I don't know how anyone could take listening to a constant drone of the exhaust when going along an express way sitting on a constant rev I just don't understand it.

When you hear a V8 on the other hand its like a woman, it's only loud when you really give it to her.

Well, I can't be fucked typing anymore.
This is more of a conversation you talk about when your down the pub, because it goes on and on for hours.

[Jaz]

Originally posted by psi_ko
a turbo sounds awesome with its vroooom pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Whenever i hear that my mind thinks of 'higher pressures', meaning more chance of component failure.

[scathing]

Originally posted by muga
When people talk about how V8's cant go around corners as good as smaller cars its pretty stupid as the way the new V8's are designed they can go just as quick around it as small cars.

This is exactly what I was talking about before.

Its actually quite funny how people think you can design "against" the basic laws of physics. You can't. You can only design around it, and try to mitigate some of its effects. However, in the end, they're still there.

A large capacity V8 weighs more than a 4 cylinder engine. It has more of a similar kind of metal, so its just basic physics. Another basic physics law is that inertia is based on mass and velocity. So if you're travelling at the same velocity, the lighter vehicle has less inertia and hence stops and turns easier. On a twisty piece of road, its not power but handling that brings the low times in.

Now, you can throw good suspension design at it, and make your 1500kg car corner damned well....but then, so can the guy with the 1200kg 4 cylinder, and so their car is still faster around the bend because there's less inertia.

If you think that your "modern large capacity V8" is as fast around a corner as a 4-pot, I would love to see a HSV GTO (in its 300kW glory) lap a technically challenging track like Wakefield Park or Winton faster than a non-turbo 4-cylinder Lotus Exige. Or as fast. Or almost as fast. For more than one lap before the tyres melt and the brakes fade.

I don't doubt its possible...if you put Peter Brock in the HSV, and Pete Smith the voice-over man in the Exige. But, for the same driver, the 4 banger will defecate on the V8 around a twisty track.

I don't have my copy of Motor here (for Performance Car of the Year), but around Winton how did the SS ute stack up against the simiarly priced Integra Type R or WRX? Of course, V8 Supercar driver Cameron McConville may not be a match on your skill at extracting the best out of the vehicle, but at least its the same driver testing each car.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by Jaz
Whenever i hear that my mind thinks of 'higher pressures', .

Strange, Vrooom Pshhhh normally equals low pressure, alot of ricey types like the sound of a turbo(well just the BOV really) better than the performance & so they set there Blow Off Valve dump pressures much lower.

The risk of componant failure is not as great as you make out, It'll be the head & its componants that fail if anything & even then it's cheaper to replace than the block & the componants contained within.

Modern engines can usually take 15psi(which is ample, Turbo 4 bangers can kill V8s with only 8psi) of boost without compromising reliability.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by scathing
This is exactly what I was talking about before.

Its actually quite funny how people think you can design "against" the basic laws of physics. You can't. You can only design around it, and try to mitigate some of its effects. However, in the end, they're still there.

A large capacity V8 weighs more than a 4 cylinder engine. It has more of a similar kind of metal, so its just basic physics. Another basic physics law is that inertia is based on mass and velocity. So if you're travelling at the same velocity, the lighter vehicle has less inertia and hence stops and turns easier. On a twisty piece of road, its not power but handling that brings the low times in.

Now, you can throw good suspension design at it, and make your 1500kg car corner damned well....but then, so can the guy with the 1200kg 4 cylinder, and so their car is still faster around the bend because there's less inertia.

If you think that your "modern large capacity V8" is as fast around a corner as a 4-pot, I would love to see a HSV GTO (in its 300kW glory) lap a technically challenging track like Wakefield Park or Winton faster than a non-turbo 4-cylinder Lotus Exige.

You beat me to it, I was going to go into the whole thing about having greater weight up front.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by muga

I don't hate turbo'ed cars but to me they just seem like a waste of money and seem to be needing work done with them to often. These days you can get yourself a stock V8 that goes just as good as a 4-banger that cost near double the price once all your mods have been installed to make it as good (if not better) V8 then run in to something like a gearbox giving way because of the turbo. To me that sounds stupid, I don't understand it.


It's quite apparent you don't understand it, I have not seen these 4 cylinder cars you speak of that cost nearly twice as much as a V8 Commodore, I don't know which ones always need work, Japanese cars have the greatest reliability for price on the market, & very few stock V8s go as good as most of the standard turbos on the market in the last 10 years.

[psi_ko]

Originally posted by Jaz
Whenever i hear that my mind thinks of 'higher pressures', meaning more chance of component failure.

whenever i hear that i think of bogans and flanelets

i was just sayin each to their own. both v8s and turbos can have a powerful and pleasing sound.

edit: jesus this didnt take long to spark fisticuffs....
*waits for someone to bring up the r32 gtr's and changes to motorsport in australia*

[scathing]

He did compare it to "a regular done up WRX" (we'll just ignore how oxymoronic "regular" and "done-up" are), and from my perusals of most modified WRXs on the street, they're mostly modified to look good, usually at the expense of performance.

You know what I'm talking about; huge, gaudy chrome rims, slammed suspension, massive exhausts, loud blow off valves, big front mount intercoolers, etc.

Quite a few of these mods, unless done right, are counter-productive to good performance, especially on the street. 19" rims and slammed suspension might look good at the motor show, but on the street you don't have the compliance to keep the rubber on the deck and put power down when you're going over bumps. Big front mounts (especially on a WRX, that was designed with a top-mount) increase the intake piping, which introduces latency.

Since most of these guys are on a budget, they spend shit on brand name parts that look nice, but don't get it installed and set up properly. So they can brag about having HKS this and GReddy that, but in the end they're not making the most of the mods since they skimped on hiring someone with two working braincells to ensure it all works cohesively.

Against that, its not surprising that his SS ute (especially if its stock) will outperform a done-up WRX in anything but a straight line. A WRX with a big exhaust and boost tweaking will still slay a SS ute off the lights, but without good suspension mods it'll still power-on lift or bump all over the road.

[scathing]

Originally posted by Jaz
Whenever i hear that my mind thinks of 'higher pressures', meaning more chance of component failure.

I keep thinking about increased likelihood of component failure too......usually when some large capacity engine rumbles past and I think about all that reciprocating mass.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by scathing
I keep thinking about increased likelihood of component failure too......usually when some large capacity engine rumbles past and I think about all that reciprocating mass.

Often we do disagree, but I'm now compelled to say Great Minds Think alike.

[muga]

A WRX with a big exhaust and boost tweaking will still slay a SS ute off the lights.

Untrue.

[DumHed]

actually I'd put money on a stock rex beating an SS ute off the line, unless the driver is a complete and total moron...

As much as I don't like the rex, you can't deny the benefit of having four driven wheels instead of two for getting the car off the line rapidly.

[scathing]

Originally posted by muga
Untrue.

Of course it is, dear *pats cheek*

And, while you're there, you just keep telling yourself that your pushrod, 2 valve per cylinder V8 is "modern".

You know, Toyota used to stick big "16V" stickers on the doors of their little Corollas back in the 80's, because it was so impressive. Maybe we can have some of those stickers made up for your ute's flanks, too.

[beowulf437]

There is something to be said for brute force. My first car was a 1966 Cadillac given to me by my dad. It had 429ci engine and the only modification I did to it was change the Carter 425cfm carborater for a Holly 850. I took the car to the bracket races and was able to get a 14.1 in the quarter mile. Unfortunately I didn't win because I was up against a guy in 1969 Chevelle who was doing low 10's.

A friend of mine entered the bracket races in a 1975 Pinto that he called the 'Funk'. He had stripped out this Pinto including cutting out the inside fenders. He then installed a 351 windsor and welded a steel square tubing frame under the car (to keep the body from twisting). He was able to run mid 6's. The next time he took to the track they told him he needed a roll cage, fire extinguisher, and fire suit before they would let him race.

[Jaz]

Originally posted by scathing
I keep thinking about increased likelihood of component failure too......usually when some large capacity engine rumbles past and I think about all that reciprocating mass.
All that mass is moving, but its less stressed.

mmm. Lazy.

[DumHed]

some parts are less stressed, but some are much more stressed.

The larger a part is the less strength it has compared to its mass.

Small parts can be very strong, and have a much smaller mass, which reduces stress, effectively increasing strength even more.

V engines tend to have some design compromises too, like shared crank journals, which concentrates double the stress on the same area, meaning that to keep the same reliability the engine will have to produce less power for its size than a smaller engine can.

I recently stripped down the engine from my old Silvia.
It's a 2L n/a engine, with a redline of 7500rpm.
People used to always tell me that I was going to kill it by revving it too high and generally driving it hard.
It was given an oil change every 10000k's (only 3.5L of oil neeed), and that was about it for maintenance, so it didn't cost much to run during the 90,000km that I drove it.

The engine now has about 150,000km on it, and when I took it apart I found that most of the wearing parts have no noticeable wear at all. The bores still had the factory hone marks, the pistons still have all the machining marks (usually pistons get a polished finish on the skirts after use), and the bearings are good enough to put back in and keep using.
Basically all the 150000km old parts look the same as the 5000km old parts I'm replacing them with.

[SamBo]

Originally posted by muga
Well, I drive an SS ute at the moment and I must say these things are fantastic to drive around in. They handle just as good if not better than your regular done up Subaru WRX's and have the power on top of that.

I don't hate turbo'ed cars but to me they just seem like a waste of money and seem to be needing work done with them to often. These days you can get yourself a stock V8 that goes just as good as a 4-banger that cost near double the price once all your mods have been installed to make it as good (if not better) V8 then run in to something like a gearbox giving way because of the turbo. To me that sounds stupid, I don't understand it.


I'd like to see one of these mythical 4 bangers that cost more than twice as much as a V8.... :rolleyes:
Brand new, the WRXs are about $50k i think (possibly less). I imagine a brand new SS ute costs quite considerably more.
As for mods, well, a lot of power can be gained from minimal mods for a minimal cost. The thing is, most people don't realise this (both the people like you, who don't care about it, and the people who do the mods without really knowing what they're doing).
As for a gearbox giving way because of a turbo... well, I guess some gearboxes are weaker than others (gearboxes on V8s can break too, oh wait, you probably have an auto box in yours). Having a turbo or a ton of power isn't going to break a gearbox though, bad driving will.

[DumHed]

it also depends on which particular turbo 4 pot car you have.

Rexs are good at breaking gearboxes, partly because of the extra stress they take when launching hard with 4WD, and partly because they're not as strong as some other boxes.

One reason I like my Nissans is because everything is built tough. Even since the 70s Nissan have used massively over engineered parts. Who else would put a 700hp capable diff in a 100hp car?

The Nissan R200 diff and drive shafts are just stupidly strong.
The current world's fastest drag Silvia (which is in Sydney, and did an 8.7 second 1/4 mile) is making well over 500kw at the wheels, and is running a standard rear end, except for a mini spool diff centre to lock it.

It's also running the standard engine block and crank, and is still 2L in capacity.

[scathing]

Originally posted by SamBo
Brand new, the WRXs are about $50k i think (possibly less). I imagine a brand new SS ute costs quite considerably more.

A SS ute is $40K (for which he could have bought an XR6T, which is faster and more practical unless you're trying to pick up at the B&S ball). That's the same price range as the Integra Type-R and the WRX.

As I said, I would love to see a SS ute up against the Type-R or WRX on Wakefield (or even a combined time up and down Macquarie Pass) with the same professional driver in both.

[excalibur]

Originally posted by scathing
Of course it is, dear *pats cheek*

And, while you're there, you just keep telling yourself that your pushrod, 2 valve per cylinder V8 is "modern".

You know, Toyota used to stick big "16V" stickers on the doors of their little Corollas back in the 80's, because it was so impressive. Maybe we can have some of those stickers made up for your ute's flanks, too.

The Ford V8 is a modern motor. It is running 32 valves, with quad overhead cams. Sure they only got rid of the windsor motor for this model, but an upgrade was desperately needed.

On the WRX's slaying an SS off the lights, I have seen a turbo supra get owned by a stock (BA) falcon. This was becaue the riceboy driver of the supra didn't know how to drive. He thought that if he goes up through the gears real quick, he gets to hear his precious blow off valve more, and will go faster. The race essentially turned into a stock falcon dragging a non turbo supra. I really wouldn't be surprised that in our little SS Vs. WRX debate, that if they put the sort of mods on the car that we are talking about, if you got one of those drivers.

Yes, I have seen a V8 blow up in my time, but in that time I have seen more 4 bangers with holes in the block I could stich my fist in. 1 from a camira (doesn't really count cause it's a camira) 1 from a pulsar, I cant remember what the other 2 where from. The V8 that blew was Gary Myers 65 mustang in the Summernats burnout masters a few years ago. That made me sad....:(

One last point. Noddy, shut up, you are making the V8 people look stupid.

[scathing]

Originally posted by excalibur
The Ford V8 is a modern motor. It is running 32 valves, with quad overhead cams. Sure they only got rid of the windsor motor for this model, but an upgrade was desperately needed.

We're going to play a little game now. Its called "observation".

1. I was directly replying to Muga about "his V8"
2. Muga drives an SS ute
3. An SS ute doesn't have a Ford V8

Wasn't that fun, kiddies?


Secondly, we were comparing cars / engines. As anyone with any scientific grounding knows, when you make a comparison between two things, you try to keep as many other variables constant (or as similar as possible).

When we're comparing engines, we don't go crapping on about how one driver is better than another. My first car was an 80's automatic Volvo that had a non-turbo 2.3L 4-cylinder in it (all stock). It was designed for super, but ran on unleaded, which killed power even more. In this trim, I once managed to beat a HSV VS Clubsport off the line because the driver didn't know how to use a clutch. Woo woo, I guess that means that shitty old Volvo killed HSVs. :rolleyes:

So, thanks for your anecdote but, really, it has about as much relevance to this discussion as you telling us all about what you ate for dinner last night.

[psi_ko]

you know the whole SS v WRX could be killed off easily if holden put their performance figures on their website!

if anyone has a motor mag handy flick to the end and tell me the 0-400m and 0-100kmh times for an SS and a WRX.

[excalibur]

Scathing, by my little story I was trying to illustrate the point that a high performance car does not equal high performance, the driver has to be good enough to be able to control it, and know how to get the most power from the machine.

[scathing]

Oh, I got your point.

However the point of this thread is comparing two different engine (and aspiration) types. You know, whether a small forced induction engine is better than a large normally aspirated one. We were talking about the mechanics of the engine, how good the operator is, or if one is on drag slicks and the other is on retreads, or any other variable.

So your point, as interesting as it is, doesn't really add to the discussion.

That's my point.

[Conny!]

What about an Aston Martin DB.9 hehehe. I want one of those!!

I agree with physics people, being an engineer and all you cannot beat physics. Light cars corner better than fast cars.

And [personal opinion] i prefer the braking and accelerating and cornering to the BAM off the mark get really fast before road ends. So i have to go with the nimbler 4 cyclinders be it na or not.[/personal opinion]

I also like the AWD, for the grip, but this is not under discussion so i'll keep quiet now.

My fav cars are Pulsar GTIR and the R32 GTr, used to like big block holdens but they dont seem so nice and shiny to me now.

Although i did like my shiny Holley on my old VK :)

[Asmodeus]

eh.. all these engines.. non of these are all that fun untill you get over 1Khp as it is. Then driving becomes fun :D

of course, on a v8, a supercharger isn't always the way to go. one thing we had on our car that seemed to run better many times? a basic tunnelram manifold with 2 big old gas dumpers on top.

[glhs509]

mmmm...yummy...say two holley dominators breathing 2500 cfm total....and the fuel to go with that from a 12 gal. fuel cell....just about enough to race a few runs and then have to re-fuel :(

great, now I have a taste for a big block burger over at greatlakes dragway...



Originally posted by Asmodeus
of course, on a v8, a supercharger isn't always the way to go. one thing we had on our car that seemed to run better many times? a basic tunnelram manifold with 2 big old gas dumpers on top.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by glhs509
mmmm...yummy...say two holley dominators breathing 2500 cfm total....and the fuel to go with that from a 12 gal. fuel cell....just about enough to race a few runs and then have to re-fuel :(

great, now I have a taste for a big block burger over at greatlakes dragway...

dominators always seemed touchy and prone to just dumping raw gas. we had dual 850 double pumpers on ours.

hmm, great lakes dragway. i remember that place, since i live in teh chicago area as well.

[royale]

Originally posted by muga

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A WRX with a big exhaust and boost tweaking will still slay a SS ute off the lights.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Untrue.

Quite untrue, a WRX doesn’t need a big exhaust or boost tweaking, it will do a SS ute in stock standard form.
A big exhaust or boost tweaking will just add to the 5.7 litres worth of embarrassment.

[psi_ko]

can someone find the 0-400m times and 1-100kmh times to back this up?

[royale]

WRX
0-100 Km/h secs 5.7
0-400 m 13.9 sec

will try to find ss

[Doitle]

lol I like My V4... It's an assasins car... I could sneak up behind someone without them ever knowing. But when you floor it it makes some noise. Cool noise not a high pitched Whine or a rumble, kinda in between just like a neato Brooooom... Noise. lol Since its such a small car too it performs real nice with the 4... Goes fast cause theres not much to pull lol.

[beerbaron]

mmmm being a noob i shouldnt light the flames anymore but id prefer a v8,in a small car
Get the best of both worlds
light car + instant v8 punch = speeding fines :D

[durus]

Where the hell was my turbo rotary option?
Anyway ROTARY people. ROTARY.
All the people who talk about 4s and turbo fours for the weight reduction etc. Why not the rotary. IMHO it has plenty of torque with a turbo on it.

On a side note. Drove a friend's N/A Series 5 RX7 the other day. SHWEEEEEET. Felt great when i put the foot down and the revs where nice and high. I'm thinking about buying it.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by durus
Where the hell was my turbo rotary option?
Anyway ROTARY people. ROTARY.
All the people who talk about 4s and turbo fours for the weight reduction etc. Why not the rotary. IMHO it has plenty of torque with a turbo on it.


I addressed Rotaries in my large post further up the thread.


Originally posted by beerbaron
mmmm being a noob i shouldnt light the flames anymore but id prefer a v8,in a small car
Get the best of both worlds
light car + instant v8 punch =

light car + instant v8 punch = An appalling front end weight bias=poor brake performance & handling.

Nothing shits me more than those wankers who put a big(usually from a a Falcon) V8 into a Mk1 or Mk2 Cortina.

There are Lotus Cortinas out there(even in Aus) that are getting 650hp out of the Lotus/Cosworth engine that came with the car, originally this engine was 1.6litre but for the class of racing they are increased to 1.8litres(often using a stronger Datsun L18 crank), although these are twin cam engines they still have only 2 valves per cylinder, they are achieving the 650hp without forced induction(supercharging or turbocharging), although they are equiped with the factory optioned mechanical fuel injection, even using carbs though 480+hp is common in racing circles.

[scathing]

Originally posted by durus
All the people who talk about 4s and turbo fours for the weight reduction etc. Why not the rotary. IMHO it has plenty of torque with a turbo on it.

Because rotaries are heavy. While small, they're generally cast iron for strength (especially if they're multi-rotor, which they all are these days).

Apparently the 2.0L Nissan SR20DET turbo engine in the Silvia weighs less than the twin turbo 13B rotary in the FD RX-7.

[beerbaron]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
I addressed Rotaries in my large post further up the thread.



light car + instant v8 punch = An appalling front end weight bias=poor brake performance & handling.

Nothing shits me more than those wankers who put a big(usually from a a Falcon) V8 into a Mk1 or Mk2 Cortina.

There are Lotus Cortinas out there(even in Aus) that are getting 650hp out of the Lotus/Cosworth engine that came with the car, originally this engine was 1.6litre but for the class of racing they are increased to 1.8litres(often using a stronger Datsun L18 crank), although these are twin cam engines they still have only 2 valves per cylinder, they are achieving the 650hp without forced induction(supercharging or turbocharging), although they are equiped with the factory optioned mechanical fuel injection, even using carbs though 480+hp is common in racing circles.

Slightly disagree there.
I had a v8 mgb which was modifed sensibly ( bigger brakes, beefed suspension etc ) and i was using all alloy rover 3.9v8 ( around 300bhp )
Enuff for the car and road/light competition work
Q/mile time mid 13's
Not to mention the odd hil climbs
;)

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by beerbaron
Slightly disagree there.
I had a v8 mgb which was modifed sensibly ( bigger brakes, beefed suspension etc ) and i was using all alloy rover 3.9v8

3.9 litres & all aluminium is sensible but usually the approach most people take to a V8 in a small carr involves something of 5litres or more & made of iron being put into a car that wasn't designed for.

The MGB was built with a V8(& if I remember correctly the engine is set further back than most front engine rwd cars), it's not the same as just taking a small car & putting a v8 in it which it looked like you were suggesting at first.

[beerbaron]

The MGB was built with a V8(& if I remember correctly the engine is set further back than most front engine rwd cars), it's not the same as just taking a small car & putting a v8 in it which it looked like you were suggesting at first. [/B][/QUOTE]

Correct. What i was referring too was the MGB v8 and similar.
Another car id mention which probably most dont know about is the Ford Capri Perana. Made in Seth Africa basically a Ford Capri with 351 Ford V8 in it
Makes for interesting road car and i know a mechanic who preps one for the classic adelaide.
Heres a link to one in Seth Africa

http://www.agent.co.za/capri/capri_gallery.shtml

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by beerbaron
Made in Seth Africa basically a Ford Capri with 351 Ford V8 in it
Makes for interesting road car and i know a mechanic who preps one for the classic adelaide.
Heres a link to one in Seth Africa

http://www.agent.co.za/capri/capri_gallery.shtml

That one though would certainly have the troubles I listed before in regards to handling & getting the thing to stop.

[XAJIM]

Originally posted by excalibur

My idea car as I said on the "Dream car" thread is an XB falcon 2 door (if I can find one that's in decent nick) but a 4 door will do. with a 351 windsor under the bonnet, 4 on the floor top loader gearbox, and a 9 inch LSD.

The 351 would be run through a 3 inch twin exhaust off a set of genie headers.



Love your work. Though personally i'd take an XA with a 351 Cleveland and alloy heads. Just can't beat the sweet sound.

[kré]

Originally posted by Doitle
lol I like My V4... It's an assasins car... I could sneak up behind someone without them ever knowing. But when you floor it it makes some noise. Cool noise not a high pitched Whine or a rumble, kinda in between just like a neato Brooooom... Noise. lol Since its such a small car too it performs real nice with the 4... Goes fast cause theres not much to pull lol.

what the hell kind of car do you have that has a v4 in it? :confused:

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by cray
what the hell kind of car do you have that has a v4 in it? :confused:

British Ford Consuls had 1.7litre & 1.9litre Iron block(some had iron heads, later had alloy heads) OHV v4s in them, later SAAB bought manufacturing rights to the Ford V4 & used it in the Saab 95 & 96, it was also used in the SAAB Sonett sports car up till 1977.


Edit: Alot of owners of NSU RO80s had Ford V4s installed in them when their still experimental Wankel rotary engines clagged it.

Various Lancias of the 50s & 60s had an aluminium OHC V4 in them.

Edit: I also believe some of the Steyr/Puch license built Fiat 500Ds had an air cooled V4(some also had Aircooled 2cyl 2 strokes).

[DrDivad]

i have an I-4 (boxer) with a bit of hammering we could make it a V
:D

[V_Max]

Originally posted by DrDivad
i have an I-4 (boxer)Now that's something I'd like to see :p

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by DrDivad
i have an I-4 (boxer) with a bit of hammering we could make it a V
:D

I-4?These engines are usually refered to as H-4, H-6 H-8 etc but I does make more sense considering the appearance when viewing one of these engines from front or back, your's I'm guessing, is either a light Aero engine(likely made by Rotax) or it's an engine that was found in some Brough Superior motorcycles, An engine being very much like having 2 boxer twins stacked on top of one another & having 2 crankshafts geared together by idlers, not sure about the Aero-engines but the motorcycle engines were prone to overheating.

[DumHed]

nah, Divad's is a normal boxer 4, of Subaru origin (an EA82T to be exact)

1.8L of ticking destruction!

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by DumHed
nah, Divad's is a normal boxer 4, of Subaru origin (an EA82T to be exact)

1.8L of ticking destruction!

Oh, I take things too literally at times, I forgot that Subaru used that engine prefix.

[DrDivad]

yeah for some reason at the time Subaru called it an I-4 and then later they had the H-6's,

i think I was used because if you rotate the block 90 degrees it's very capital I shaped, skinny in the middle with the fat heads looking kinda like the cross bars ona capital I, or it could be a really stretched out H in it's horizontal orientation, or we could just use H for horizontal.

Also has a lot of IHI components, two I's beat one H :P, though IHI is just Fuji Heavy Industries, dunno what the I is though, bah i'm rambling.

I dunno, either's good in my mind.

[jaay]

The Lotus Esprit has a mid-engine twin-turbocharged V8, and is comparably lighter than most 4-cylinder cars.

The midmounted 3.5-liter V-8 engine is fitted with twin Garrett T25 turbochargers. It generates 350 horsepower at 6,500 rpm and 295 pounds-feet of torque at 4,250 rpm.

Lotus claims the Esprit V8 can accelerate from zero to 60 mph in a swift 4.4 seconds.



:banana:

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by DrDivad


Also has a lot of IHI components, two I's beat one H :P, though IHI is just Fuji Heavy Industries, dunno what the I is though, bah i'm rambling.


IHI is Hitachi, I never relised they were part of Fuji Heavy Industries.