Police! Stop! or we will EMP you!

[and3w]

The next thing to stop you if you commit road traffic offences could be an 'EMP' type device!
"A futuristic gadget which disables suspect vehicles with radio waves could soon be used by police in car chases. It's their latest weapon in safely ending pursuits.
The invention of a device which is effectively a stun gun for cars has roused the interest of senior officers.

They believe it could offer a safe alternative to high speed chases, which all too often result in deaths.

The number of people killed by crashes involving police cars in the UK is "far too high", the Police Complaints Authority warned last year.

With cop-show style chases off-limits, the potential for inventive ways to halt a runaway car has never been greater.
At the flick of a switch, the zapper directs a beam of intensely concentrated radio waves at the target car and makes it stall, safely bringing it to a halt.
The system works, according to its inventor Dr David Giri, because it turns the very technology which has revolutionised motoring over the past decade against the driver.

Computer chips are now used in most cars to control the fuel injection and engine firing systems. By knocking these out the car cannot be driven.

The system relies on a battery and a series of capacitors stored in the police car's boot. The radio waves are produced by sending a short burst of electricity into a roof-mounted antenna, which has a target range of about 50 metres.

Tests on the device are being conducted by Home Office scientists and police also appear to be keen on it.

"It seems to have potential, there's no doubt about it," said Mick Barker of the Police Federation.

But officers still want to know more about the effect of the device on non-suspect cars in the area. And, of course, it does not work on vehicles built before on-board computers were standard. "
I trhink it is a col idea for drunk or dangerous drivers.
More

here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3890127.stm)

[Ic3]

Kind of like the things they used in Too Fast Too Furious, which I've heard are concept weapons for the police to use to shut down cars as well. Especially since most new souped up cars run on computers and stuff just to keep them moving!

[That Bloke]

Various versions of this concept have been experimented with for some time, oldest I can think of is one from 12 years ago, it was a Magnetic Tasar type device where a 30metre(upto) cable with a magnetic terminal on the end is projected at a car & discharg of electrity is sent through the car, it only worked on steel bodied cars(there are quite a few aluminium, fibreglass, carbon fibre & even PET ones getting around) with electronic ignitions &/or fuel injection(these are quite sensitive, even not earthing properly when welding on any part of the car can fuck these up), Carbed(or mechanically injected) cars with conventional distributors were not effected, Another system from about 1995 used a small rocket sled that would go under the car & as it passed under it would discharge an onboard capacitor into a flat wound copper coil thus releasing a sudden strong localised EM field that would induce current in any(even the most basic, basic electrical systems are the least effected usually) electrical system in the car, headlights, ignition coils, starter motors, & alternators would all burn out.

Incidently Diesel built before 1995(some built after this have fancy computerised injection systems instead of basic mechanical ones) are completely invulnerable to EMP, Their engines require absolutely no electrical systems to keep running, the starter motor may burn out but you're already going to be moving before someone is going to try & EMP you.

[MoleTeaser]

And, hopefully, as an added bonus, it will give cancer to the criminal!

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by MoleTeaser
And, hopefully, as an added bonus, it will give cancer to the criminal!

The more immediat & likely risk would be madness & permenant neorological damage but that would really take some intense EM fields.

[pinchy]

i've built one.


4GHz magnetron with a 40dB gain horn radar, 1KW transformer with some switchmode circuits to pump in the current... sends out a 10GW pulse (1ns) of EM radiation into a narrow band .... we tested it with old computers- turns them off (permantently) at 400m... so it will kill all electronics in a car (never done it) but it does cause parking meters to suddenly stop metering...

works by inducing a standing EM wave across copper and silicon tracks of circuits at the 4GHz wavelength -> which just happens to be almost all circuits... the induced voltage can be around 200V, and as you're all aware, computer IC's don't like votlages above 5V, and voilia! no more IC's...

[pinchy]

Its sitting at work (in parts), i'll take pics tomorrow.....

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by pinchy
i've built one.


4GHz magnetron with a 40dB gain horn radar, 1KW transformer with some switchmode circuits to pump in the current... sends out a 10GW pulse (1ns) of EM radiation into a narrow band .... we tested it with old computers- turns them off (permantently) at 400m... so it will kill all electronics in a car (never done it)

I wanted to mount one on the roof of my house with sound(low frequence) activation & target tracking to kill Doof Doof cars, I was going to take lower tech aproach(to the EMP device itself, not the sound activation & tracking), capacitors dumping into coil in parabolic dish.

I have thought of using magnetrons, have a 750watt microwave in the garage but I think the magnetron might be dead, everything else is.

[pinchy]

our prototype was made from a microwave magnetron.. yorus should be ok, (they're only a ferrite metal coil with a valve in the middle <- pretty robust)... i'll see if I can dig up our design notes on it, and of course, post em on here.... its wasn't as powerful as our final version was, but it still had a range of around 100m....

a problem is your parabolic dish, you:
a: won't be able to get much gain from them and
b: won't be able to direct it well... thus you'll either:

a: dissipate low energy radiation over a large steradian, or
b: take out the entire street (unlikely with a microwave magnetron)

if you are handy with a welder I'll send you diagrams on how to make your own horn radar antena... for educational purposes of course...

[and3w]

Reminds me of making a stun-gun from a camera flash unit ;) worked well too, fukin' hurt me anyway :mad:

[King_Crud]

I once made a castle out of lego

[and3w]

Originally posted by King_Crud
I once made a castle out of lego

Have to go one better don't you! ;)

*sob; humiliated*

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by and3w
Reminds me of making a stun-gun from a camera flash unit ;)

You too huh? Mine came from a Kodak disposable, I used 2 super soakers(with a little fine salt mixed well in the water) strapped together with one terminal of capacitor in the stream of each super soaker, it was somewhat effective(the soakers were the 100 metre ones), they had more kick the closer you fired it from, effectiveness also depended on where you were hit, a head shot at 10 metres would black out vision for a few seconds, a shot to the back of the legs at the same range would drop you to your knees.

Edit: I always noticed 2 effect areas, the impact area resulted in some description of spasm or disorientation but no pain, the pain if any(sometimes it was just a twinge) was always in what ever part of you the charge exited through.

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by pinchy

b: take out the entire street (unlikely with a microwave magnetron)
.

I like that idea, nether the less I'll make the Magnetron one(if I make one at all).

I had an idea for a concealable personal electronic scrambler, my idea was to have one of those hand held(4 AA batteries) strobe units they sell at Dick Smith's & the like, they contain 11-14kv caps with rapid recharge, I was thinking of combining this with a mobile phone type antenna so it would be emiting a constant pulsing EM field.

[DumHed]

somewhere I have a couple of 900mm satellite dishes...

I did joke once about putting a magnetron in the middle of one and using it as a roof mounted death ray on the work van :)

Maybe it's worth trying this out :cool:

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by pinchy


if you are handy with a welder I'll send you diagrams on how to make your own horn radar antena... for educational purposes of course...

I can lap weld with Oxy, Arc or MIG & I can butt weld 2mm(steel, might need to be thicker for Aluminium) & thicker with the same methods.

[That Bloke]

This whole forum has been a little too dead for a little too long, I'll revive this thread by telling Pinchy that I'd be interested in those diagrams.



Originally posted by That_Bloke
I can lap weld with Oxy, Arc or MIG & I can butt weld 2mm(steel, might need to be thicker for Aluminium) & thicker with the same methods.

[DumHed]

yeah me too.
I send PMs, but no reply.

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by DumHed
yeah me too.
I send PMs, but no reply.

I wonder what you'de have to type into google to find plans.

[evil]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
Incidently Diesel built before 1995(some built after this have fancy computerised injection systems instead of basic mechanical ones) are completely invulnerable to EMP

Yes but a pre '95 diesel gives you the performance and sound of a farm tractor. The ensuing chase would be the slowest car chase of all time ...

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by evil
Yes but a pre '95 diesel gives you the performance and sound of a farm tractor. .

Yeah but diesels also have brute force, they are hard to stop.............Anyway you can get(with work) a Peugeot 505 Turbo Diesel to return 8 second 0-100km accelleration & a top speed of 180-220km/h.

BMW put a twin Turbo V8 diesel into the Z9 Coupe a couple of years ago to test it out..........there were talks of releasing it as the first diesel sports car.
http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/concepts/z9a_800.jpg

Someone German also has a quad turbo diesel V12 concept that had impressive performance.

[pinchy]

http://www.amazing1.com/Albums/EMP-Generator-Explodes-Suicide-Killer-Dummie/Dynamite_Dummie3.jpg
http://www.amazing1.com/Albums/EMP-Generator-Explodes-Suicide-Killer-Dummie/Dynamite_Dummie4.jpg
http://www.amazing1.com/Albums/EMP-Generator-Explodes-Suicide-Killer-Dummie/Dynamite_Dummie5.jpg
http://www.amazing1.com/Albums/EMP-Generator-Explodes-Suicide-Killer-Dummie/Dynamite_Dummie6.jpg
By the looks of it, almost identical construct to ours (though we used a square horn waveguide, not the dish in this example)... I've put these pics up to show that it can be done... The dummy in the pic had electricaly triggered PE attached to him, the EMP triggered the detonator. (It didn't blow up the dummy directly). As soon as I find my pics I'll put them up...god knows where they are though...

[minorproblem]

I wonder what you'de have to type into google to find plans.
I will give you a hint "vircator" if i had the parts i could go assemble it in the IEEE room we have all the equipment necissary and ive got after hours access hmmm :p

[DumHed]

hmm, ye olde magnetron may have to come out of hiding some time :)

Years back I found that a large handheld AM CB radio I had could reset computers at close range, turn monitors black and white, and could talk directly through the speakers on computers upstairs at work :)

[Kez]

Well I'll be damned!

I have schematics that I've printed off for EMP's. I shall go fetch them from my filing cabinet.

Edit:

I have them now, but don't have a functional scanner.

They use a NE555 Timer IC.

[Kez]

http://www.linkbase.org/emp-weapon/

There's 2 pages of the plans with the parts and instructions, but no diagrams. The original diagrams are long gone from that site.

[and3w]

Well I'll be damned!

Hmmm, Holy unlikelihood, Batman! (NOT) :laughing: :laughing:

[still life]

I would think that killing all the electronics and thus the power assisted brakes, steering, ABS, stability control, traction control, airbags, possibly suspension and differentials could easily be the cause of a more severe accident. And that could be considered a substantial legal liability to any police force that tried to deploy such a system.

What a stupid idea, imagine the police:

junior officer: he wont stop, what do we do sarge !!??
sarge: EMP the fucker
*EMP*
*engine stalls, brakes reduced to 20% effectiveness; steering dead, car skids; slams into wall, airbags do not deploy, driver dies*
junior officer: ........
sarge: that will learn him not to do 80 in a 70 zone, when will people realise speed kills!

[That Bloke]

I would think that killing all the electronics and thus the power assisted brakes,
Power assisted brakes aren't literally electrically powered, they are powered vacuum from the induction manifold, or in the case of diesels(which prior to the first generation of TDI in 1989 aren't effected by EMP anyway) the vacuum to power the brake booster is taken from a mechanically driven pump)

Also there was a time when even cars with disk brakes weren't power assisted, you can stop, also with the engine not running then engine braking is going to be a quite effective way to bring the car to a steady & relatively controlled stop(if it's a manual you ride the clutch so's not to lock it up)


steering,
Anyone who's too feeble to manage manual steering(very, very few cars that are on the road yet don't feature a physical mechanical link between the steering wheel & the rack or worm & sector/ recirculating ball etc) doesn't deserve to be driving



ABS
The brakes will work, you just have to use them properly.


possibly suspension


Come again? Yes there has been electronic suspension(Telstar TX5/Mazda 626 etc) but all it consists of is electronically controlled adjustment, if the electronic control stops working all it means is that you only have one setting, it doesn't stop the suspension from working(you still have a springs, you still have a shock absorber)


and differentials
Diffs are still either mechanical(gears, some clutches if it's LSD) or viscose(fluid couplings on either side of the crown wheel linked to the axles), No mechanical diffs incorporate electronic systems, sometimes as an extension of the ABS systems function it may detect if a wheel is spinning & brake just that wheel so the power goes to the wheel that still has contact with the surface, if such a system stops working you retain normal differential function, as for the viscose kind, some times they have electronically varied fluid pressures/levels but if this electronic system were to stop working the viscose diff would still function, it just might not be as "dynamic".

[chiefy]

something different

[Marshall77]

I thought that the engine had to be running to pressurize the brakes. That why they dont work when your engines not running. Hand brakes would still work as they are a mechanical link .

The new subarus have an electronic controller on the vicous clutch which control power distribution in the all wheel drive. I believe this is similar to what is used in traction control but dont know what the loss of engine power would do to the modern system.

EMP is probably better than spike strip.

[That Bloke]

I thought that the engine had to be running to pressurize the brakes.

They work, just not as well/easily(if they're disks, drums don't neen vacuum boosting)