Car Help Needed!!!

[r0p3 g1rl]

I’m buying a new car. I have between $60-70,000 to spend.

I have absolutely no idea what to buy.

It needs to seat at least 4 people, be sporty (I’m not quite ready for the family sedan) but other than that I have no idea.

And no more than 12 months old.

What would you buy in that category and why?

Thanks :D

[ezer]

wow thats a fari bit of $$$$$ just get whatever you want!

[dilligaf]

Holden Monaro!!

Game over! (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001)

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by ezer
wow thats a fari bit of $$$$$ just get whatever you want!

the car i want isn't within that price range, the main reason i dont know what to buy!

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by dilligaf
Holden Monaro!!

Game over! (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001)


you're missing your reason why!

[dilligaf]

Personally, the performance on these cars is great. I have had a drive of one once before. The handling is pretty responsive. The car imo looks absolutelky awesome, and it is a somewhat Aussie car. (I guess that you are located in Aust. as 75% of us are) The car is arguably one of the best around.

Be cafreful as the new model is due to be released very soon, so perhaps you should hold off until it comes out.

But the car has ample power under the bonnet for city our country driving. If i had your money, i would buy a Monaro.

[Chopper]

Get something different instead of a run of the mill Holden.

Something like an Alpha Romeo 156

Or a Maserati 3200 GT
Maserati 3200 (http://www.allsportauto.com/english/detailphoto.php3?zl_id=33&zl_idMD=200)

You wanna turn heads. I remember th first time I saw this model of maserati approaching I though "what is that"

Looks pretty good, sounds even better and it moves......

[StygiaN]

I would buy an Integra Type R and save the rest of the money :) Why, cause it's a nice car and i've always wanted one.

[RRS]

Chopper... unless he's got a coupla hundred K to spend the maser is out of his reach, but I'd recommend a Porsche boxster S , 911 or an M3 before I recommended a Maser..

RX-8 it's the only choice decent in that segment IMHO (OK so we bought one, and we love it :D

Monaro's are shite.. the manual box is shit, the auto is even shitter, and they are lumbering beasts, with no brake or steering feedback, poor build quality etc.

RX- 8 is light on it's feet, great feel through steering. short throw manual shift, Torsen LSD.. switchable traction control, 4 doors.. comfie as hell.. great stereo in the leather pack, fantastic Xenon lights..:D ..

Otherwise I'd go a liberty GT when the come out in manual form later in the year.

Rowds

[Afta Image]

I think if I was in your shoes, I probably would not spend 70,000 on a car, but thats just me... However, if I was I would personally steer clear of Fords and Holdens because they are just to many and wont really say much. It also might be worth while looking for a car that is about 12 months old cause it could save you a lot of depreciation value yet still be in great condition.

Also if you see a number of cars you like, dont be afraid to investigate things like cost of insurances, its not uncommon for certain cars to has larger insurances than other in the same bracket.

Dont be afraid to buy a car that you think suits your personality, its not worth buying a car just because others recommend it, you really need to be happy with it....

Finally, if you can hold off, look at buying after christmas cause that is when great deals can be made on cars as it is a slow time for Car Dealers.

Hope it helps a bit....

[Afta Image]

Otherwise, you can donate the money to my Help me, I am a poor bastard Charity.....

:p

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by Chopper
Get something different instead of a run of the mill Holden.

Something like an Alpha Romeo 156

Or a Maserati 3200 GT
Maserati 3200 (http://www.allsportauto.com/english/detailphoto.php3?zl_id=33&zl_idMD=200)

You wanna turn heads. I remember th first time I saw this model of maserati approaching I though "what is that"


Go for the Alfa, I've not seen a new Maserati priced below $130k in years, Maseratis are also notoriously thirsty.

[Drakin]

Get a mini cooper s john works special.

[Cpt Jellybean]

Buy a Volvo for about 6 grand.
They're like tanks, won't fall apart or stop, just keep on going.

Put the rest on a House

[bassbogan]

Buy a tank! Nothing says "LOOK AT MEEE!" more than 60 tonnes of mobile artillery.

[hooptieride]

Series 8 Rx7

http://private.carsales.com.au/photos/264245.jpg

[scathing]

Those may quite possibly be the ugliest set of non-chrome rims ever.

[scathing]

As I've already said to you, I would be hard pressed to pick anything other than a Subaru Liberty GT (http://subaru.com.au/explore/liberty/exterior.asp?item=23472), with the Luxury Pack.

Its still a sedan and will seat 4 comfortably (and a fifth at a pinch). However, it is very quick, and you can always spend your $5-10K on basic bolt-on mods to make it go quicker. A cat-back exhaust and larger intercooler would extract a fair amount more power, and modifications that light don't bother insurance companies.

At the same time, the interior's still comfortable, it has a full compliment of safety features (both passive and active) and it is a handsome looking car.

If you want something faster, there's not much in that price bracket that will pass a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII (http://www.lancerevolutionviii.com.au/). An Impreza STi will keep up, but that's about it.

The interior is a bit more poverty pack than a Liberty, but the car is insanely quick for the money. I'm quite tempted to trade in my little rotbox and buy one.

A Mazda RX-8 is a consideration, but the engine needs to be wrung out before it'll go. It is sporty if you're willing to rev it out to its 9000RPM redline, but if you're tootling around town and you want to make an overtaking move, you're going to have to row through the gearbox or permanently drive it in a low gear.

Couple that with the RX-8's thirst (for petrol and oil), and its not something I'd consider first choice. If I needed a 2+2 sports car, I'd buy one. But, not as a family-type car. Then my car requirements and driving habits are a bit different to yours.

If you want something that matches your previous cars' spread of torque, that you can just step on in-gear from cruising and have it pull away, then look somewhere else.

There aren't too many Euro cars in that price range worth buying. From the two premium brands, you're buying one model up from entry model.

If you buy an Audi, you either buy the borderline-in-size S3, the underpowered A4 1.8T Quattro, or front wheel drive A4 1.8T S-Line.

I don't like FWD cars, so that rules out the Alfas, Volkswagens, and other also-rans. They can crap on all they like, but FWD is not a sports driveline. Its something you build into econoboxes.

EDIT: The A4 1.8T S-Line is Quattro. Its still 40kW down on the Liberty, but if you must go Euro then buy it.

[scathing]

Anyway, nice to see you deadshits recommending she buy an RX-7 or 3200GT after she specifically said she didn't want anything more than 12 months old :rolleyes:

[scathing]

Originally posted by dilligaf
Personally, the performance on these cars is great. I have had a drive of one once before. The handling is pretty responsive.

If i had your money, i would buy a Monaro.

Are you driving a Leyland P76 at the moment or something? Responsive handling? Great performance?

The Monaro gets panned all the time for its dead steering, baulky gearbox, too-wide gear ratios, and wooden brakes. And this is from journos that reckon the WRX is a good steer (which I test drove myself and found to be indifferent, aside from its copious grip and old-school turbo rush.)

I wouldn't consider anything less than a HSV GTO, if I was to buy a Commodore Coupe (to use Mike Simcoe's preferred name for the vehicle).

Actually, if I don't go down to watch the Procar at Wakefield Park tomorrow, I might go test drive an XR6T and Monaro. Just to see for myself.

[frednurk]

Originally posted by r0p3 g1rl
I’m buying a new car. I have between $60-70,000 to spend.

I have absolutely no idea what to buy.

It needs to seat at least 4 people, be sporty (I’m not quite ready for the family sedan) but other than that I have no idea.

And no more than 12 months old.

What would you buy in that category and why?

Thanks :D
More information required.
How much do you anticipate having to spend over the lifespan of your ownership of said asset? That is:- Tyres, rego, INSURANCE, fuel economy, DEPRECIATION, etc, etc.
How long do you intend keeping this asset?
Will any component of its use be tax deductible?

The monetary distinctions are huge- like in the order of tens of thousands of dollars over 5 years.

Cars can be a very expensive commodity if not chosen correctly. BE CAREFULL, do your homework, and please- please do not choose because you just like the colour.
I apologise now for the tone of the previous sentence, but the point must be made. Approach this transaction with no emotion. If you cannot, then find a friend who can. The alternative can be very expensive, and is not necessary.
Do not be in a hurry. The dealers will always pressure you into a sale because the current "sale" is ending- or whatever other reason they can pull out their arse. Do not be fooled. It is your money- your decision- and at a time of your choosing that a deal will be struck. Kick arse girl! Do you work hard for your money? Then tell 'em to get fucked. You can damn well spend it when you damn well choose. Take control- tie the fuckers up, and whip 'em good. Give us a woody, and save yourself some money into the bargain.
I fucken hope your math is good enough- but if you are in doubt- feel free to ask here for other opinions. There are ppl who value your past contributions to Zgeek, and are willing to return the favour. :)

[flow]

Originally posted by scathing
As I've already said to you, I would be hard pressed to pick anything other than a with the Luxury Pack.

Its still a sedan and will seat 4 comfortably (and a fifth at a pinch). However, it is very quick, and you can always spend your $5-10K on basic bolt-on <....>

And you forgot to mention the resale on these cars is excellent - between 60-75% after 3 years. That's nuts.

The average holden/ford is less than 50%. Put it on a Novated lease and you will MAKE money on the balloon payment.

[flow]

Originally posted by dilligaf
Personally, the performance on these cars is great. I have had a drive of one once before. The handling is pretty responsive. The car imo looks absolutelky awesome, and it is a somewhat Aussie car. (I guess that you are located in Aust. as 75% of us are) The car is arguably one of the best around.

Hm.. it's a lot of cash for not much car. Sure it's a 2 door, but in the US 2 doors arn't that much more expensive than a 4 foor. (the Camry for instance)

Having had a VX SS (yeah, it's not a monaro but it's the same running gear), it's nice but unless you want to drive in a straight line you're going to be in trouble. I got the thing sideways so easily that it wasn't funny. In the wet you had to be so careful. The traction control is trash - is more dangerous than it is helpful.

Add that to a crashing suspension and low quality fit out, well...

I'm not baggin Aussie cars here, it's just that in the 60k-70k price bracket and if you're not after a family car, there's some nice shit out there apart from the Holden/Ford fare.

[Chopper]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
Go for the Alfa, I've not seen a new Maserati priced below $130k in years, Maseratis are also notoriously thirsty.


I know...I just checked it out. You can get one for about 36K in the UK. I don;t know what the exchange rate is for AUS but that works out at about 100k NZ dollars.

Might be thirsty but if you can afford a car like that who gives a shit!!

[Chopper]

Originally posted by scathing
Anyway, nice to see you deadshits recommending she buy an RX-7 or 3200GT after she specifically said she didn't want anything more than 12 months old :rolleyes:

Granted! but most 3200's have been well looked after and would be as good as new...we're talking 17K miles in like 4 years on the clock.

They're bloody expensive in Oz though...........

If you're spending that sort of money on a car..fuck miles to the gallon...you want fun and grunt.

[scathing]

Originally posted by Chopper
If you're spending that sort of money on a car..fuck miles to the gallon...you want fun and grunt.

$60-70K isn't all that much, these days. Its not exactly Porsche territory, let alone Ferrari.

That lucre will get you a BMW 320i or Mercedes Benz C180K.....which is basically one or two rungs above entry model.

And, of course, a 3200GT doesn't seat 4 people properly.

[Chopper]

Originally posted by scathing
$60-70K isn't all that much, these days. Its not exactly Porsche territory, let alone Ferrari.

That lucre will get you a BMW 320i or Mercedes Benz C180K.....which is basically one or two rungs above entry model.

And, of course, a 3200GT doesn't seat 4 people properly.

True...it's only because I would like one!!!:D

[ezer]

well australia is buying 59 m1a1 abrams for 550mill with training and ammo so go to god ole gwb and ask to tack one more on the bill, tell him jhonny sent you.

[TheAwesome]

You can get a nice BMW for that sort of Cash! Specially if you get one thats just a year or two old!!!

[scathing]

Originally posted by TheAwesome
You can get a nice BMW for that sort of Cash! Specially if you get one thats just a year or two old!!!

No, you can't. You can get a crap one, if you're after something sporty (and not something slow with a recognisable badge).

I just checked Drive (http://www.drive.com.au/) and the best you can get is a 320i.

If you've ever been in a 1.4 ton car being propelled by a 2.2L, 125kW engine, you'd have to be some kind of invalid in a motorised wheelchair to think that the car has any sporting aspirations.

A V6 Commodore has a better power / weight ratio than that.

If you're one of the enlightened that thinks that performance is more than just straight line performance (which would make you a tiny minority in Newcastle) then you're not much better off.

The lower-end 3 series BMW sedans have reasonable suspension geometry (even though its not shared by the 3 series coupe, and hence BMW doesn't have to make suspension good enough for the M3 in the sedan) and a really nicely matched springs and dampers. The problem is that the suspension and wheel / tyre package is set up for comfort. The car will roll onto its outside wheels in a way that generates a benign and gentle understeer as the car runs wide. With the ultra-hard economy tyres, it'll do this at a very low speed.

I will admit, though, that it means the car's handling is on-par with an S, or SS, Commodore (but lacking the outright grip on the OEM tyres, as well as the grunt, which is why it can't cut through a corner as quickly), which is why the ignorant think the car handles.

Trust me, a BMW isn't all that when it comes to a performance car. Its scary that some people buy the marketing into thinking its an "ultimate driving machine". Its not. Its the ultimate "going to the shops, or to the cafe in Lane Cove to see Carole and her new dog Mitzi" kind of car.

I'll freely laud it for being a great compact family car, but if you want excitement in that price bracket I'd suggest you look elsewhere.

[still life]

the Golf R32 (http://www.volkswagen.com.au/personal/golf/price.asp?model=R32&Car=golf) might well be worth a look in, seats 4 or 5 and fits into the 60-70 range nicely.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by scathing
Are you driving a Leyland P76 at the moment or something? Responsive handling? Great performance?


Give the p76 more credit, for a good 20+ years it was the best handling Australian built car.:D

[scathing]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
Give the p76 more credit, for a good 20+ years it was the best handling Australian built car.:D

That's like saying cat shit is the least offensive smelling excrement out there. It may not smell as bad as other kinds of shit, but it still smells like shit.

And I'd beg to differ - I'm sure those old Elfins (http://www.elfin.com.au/) would run rings around the P76.

[That_Bloke]

Originally posted by scathing


And I'd beg to differ - I'm sure those old Elfins (http://www.elfin.com.au/) would run rings around the P76.

Okay, Australian production car then Mr pedantic...................Have Elfin always been Australian? I wouldn't have thought that they were at the time Elfin/Renault pairing, unless that's a different Elfin?

[scathing]

From their web site:


Elfin is the world's second largest producer of racing cars. Ever.

A modest bloke called Garrie Cooper began a small operation in Edwardstown, South Australia, in the late Fifties. In just 24 years, he produced 250 racing, sports/racing and clubman cars, which were sold in Australia and overseas. They were fast, desirable, relatively affordable and very, very competitive.

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by scathing
As I've already said to you, I would be hard pressed to pick anything other than a Subaru Liberty GT (http://subaru.com.au/explore/liberty/exterior.asp?item=23472), with the Luxury Pack.

Its still a sedan and will seat 4 comfortably (and a fifth at a pinch). However, it is very quick, and you can always spend your $5-10K on basic bolt-on mods to make it go quicker. A cat-back exhaust and larger intercooler would extract a fair amount more power, and modifications that light don't bother insurance companies.

At the same time, the interior's still comfortable, it has a full compliment of safety features (both passive and active) and it is a handsome looking car.

If you want something faster, there's not much in that price bracket that will pass a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII (http://www.lancerevolutionviii.com.au/). An Impreza STi will keep up, but that's about it.

The interior is a bit more poverty pack than a Liberty, but the car is insanely quick for the money. I'm quite tempted to trade in my little rotbox and buy one.

A Mazda RX-8 is a consideration, but the engine needs to be wrung out before it'll go. It is sporty if you're willing to rev it out to its 9000RPM redline, but if you're tootling around town and you want to make an overtaking move, you're going to have to row through the gearbox or permanently drive it in a low gear.

Couple that with the RX-8's thirst (for petrol and oil), and its not something I'd consider first choice. If I needed a 2+2 sports car, I'd buy one. But, not as a family-type car. Then my car requirements and driving habits are a bit different to yours.

If you want something that matches your previous cars' spread of torque, that you can just step on in-gear from cruising and have it pull away, then look somewhere else.

There aren't too many Euro cars in that price range worth buying. From the two premium brands, you're buying one model up from entry model.

If you buy an Audi, you either buy the borderline-in-size S3, the underpowered A4 1.8T Quattro, or front wheel drive A4 1.8T S-Line.

I don't like FWD cars, so that rules out the Alfas, Volkswagens, and other also-rans. They can crap on all they like, but FWD is not a sports driveline. Its something you build into econoboxes.

EDIT: The A4 1.8T S-Line is Quattro. Its still 40kW down on the Liberty, but if you must go Euro then buy it.

OK well I’ve been looking around and how about the Audi TT? (Little more than the 60-70)

The liberty GT is still a little too on the family side (I miss my car *cries*)

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by frednurk
More information required.
How much do you anticipate having to spend over the lifespan of your ownership of said asset? That is:- Tyres, rego, INSURANCE, fuel economy, DEPRECIATION, etc, etc.
How long do you intend keeping this asset?
Will any component of its use be tax deductible?

The monetary distinctions are huge- like in the order of tens of thousands of dollars over 5 years.

Cars can be a very expensive commodity if not chosen correctly. BE CAREFULL, do your homework, and please- please do not choose because you just like the colour.
I apologise now for the tone of the previous sentence, but the point must be made. Approach this transaction with no emotion. If you cannot, then find a friend who can. The alternative can be very expensive, and is not necessary.
Do not be in a hurry. The dealers will always pressure you into a sale because the current "sale" is ending- or whatever other reason they can pull out their arse. Do not be fooled. It is your money- your decision- and at a time of your choosing that a deal will be struck. Kick arse girl! Do you work hard for your money? Then tell 'em to get fucked. You can damn well spend it when you damn well choose. Take control- tie the fuckers up, and whip 'em good. Give us a woody, and save yourself some money into the bargain.
I fucken hope your math is good enough- but if you are in doubt- feel free to ask here for other opinions. There are ppl who value your past contributions to Zgeek, and are willing to return the favour. :)

1. A car isn’t an asset.
2. Tyres, rego and so on, don’t know haven’t thought about it, don’t care
3. Not tax deductible for private use only
4. I wont be going to go buy the car, will probably find male friend to do it (don’t like car sales people)

[r0p3 g1rl]

Bmw is out I don't like them at all :p

[scathing]

Originally posted by r0p3 g1rl
OK well I’ve been looking around and how about the Audi TT? (Little more than the 60-70)

You buy an Audi TT, and I will hurt you (and not in a good way).

That car is all show, and no go. The engines are underwhelming (torquey, but lacking in outright power, so they pull around town but not revvy) and the car suffers from chronic understeer.

Seriously, an Audi TT is about as "sporty" as a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe with a Droid body kit (http://www.fibremotive.com/bk_mit_lanc_d2.htm), springs that some guy chopped with a gas axe at home, a press-bent farty exhaust that's a cheap knock-off design, and 19" chrome wheels.

If the Liberty GT is too "family" for you and you want something that looks sporty, but you must have some practicality, then I'd say you should buy the Mazda RX-8 (http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1_rx8.asp?articleZoneID=2191).

It is sporty and quick, no doubt about it. There are quicker cars for the money, but not with the same interior versatility or looks.

Since the car's relatively cheap, if you want it to look nicer you can always splurge out and get the Mazda Speed (http://www.fast-autos.net/mazda/mazdaspeedrx8.html) bodykit for it.

From the reviews I've read, it doesn't add any more power (but that's in Jap Spec, where the car makes more power than down here, so the exhaust and filter replacement might) but most of the mods seem to be for longevity and handling, so if you're the corner carving kind of gal, the mods will make the car feel more alive.

You could just buy the exterior bits, of course, so it'll look racier.

But, RX-8 with some light mods.

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by scathing
You buy an Audi TT, and I will hurt you (and not in a good way).

That car is all show, and no go. The engines are underwhelming (torquey, but lacking in outright power, so they pull around town but not revvy) and the car suffers from chronic understeer.

Seriously, an Audi TT is about as "sporty" as a Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe with a Droid body kit (http://www.fibremotive.com/bk_mit_lanc_d2.htm), springs that some guy chopped with a gas axe at home, a press-bent farty exhaust that's a cheap knock-off design, and 19" chrome wheels.

If the Liberty GT is too "family" for you and you want something that looks sporty, but you must have some practicality, then I'd say you should buy the Mazda RX-8 (http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1_rx8.asp?articleZoneID=2191).

It is sporty and quick, no doubt about it. There are quicker cars for the money, but not with the same interior versatility or looks.

Since the car's relatively cheap, if you want it to look nicer you can always splurge out and get the Mazda Speed (http://www.fast-autos.net/mazda/mazdaspeedrx8.html) bodykit for it.

From the reviews I've read, it doesn't add any more power (but that's in Jap Spec, where the car makes more power than down here, so the exhaust and filter replacement might) but most of the mods seem to be for longevity and handling, so if you're the corner carving kind of gal, the mods will make the car feel more alive.

You could just buy the exterior bits, of course, so it'll look racier.

But, RX-8 with some light mods.

well i guess the audi tt is off my list :D

[r0p3 g1rl]

ok, well having to seat at least 4 has gone out the window

so bring on the 2 seater's

[thingy]

Originally posted by r0p3 g1rl
ok, well having to seat at least 4 has gone out the window

so bring on the 2 seater's

... so good for someone with a young child. :rolleyes:

[r0p3 g1rl]

Originally posted by thingy
... so good for someone with a young child. :rolleyes:

when you have the use of a family sedan, why not have a two seater?

[frednurk]

Originally posted by r0p3 g1rl
1. A car isn’t an asset.
2. Tyres, rego and so on, don’t know haven’t thought about it, don’t care
3. Not tax deductible for private use only
4. I wont be going to go buy the car, will probably find male friend to do it (don’t like car sales people)

OK- I get the picture. Hard to offer useful advice in this situation. I doubt you will be happy with your choice for very long.

[metalhed00]

Get a Honda Civic. It keeps it value very well and is not very expensive, so you have lots of money to spend afterwards.

I was going to say BMW, if you wanted to spoil yourself, but I see you do not like them soooooooooo... how about a Dodge Viper? OK that's out of your price range and I can't think of anything else. Maybe a Lexus? :barf:

[Bostonmess]

Originally posted by r0p3 g1rl
ok, well having to seat at least 4 has gone out the window

so bring on the 2 seater's

FZR1000? (http://www.2tausend1.de/motors/normal/Yamaha-FZR1000-1992.jpg)

[hazza]

get a lancer evo something...


or a alpha

[durus]

RX8.
It's got the 4 seats you're looking for.
It's sporty.
It's nice.
You get the leathered up version for 64k which leaves you 6 happy thousand dollars to blow elsewhere.

Only bad side of the RX8 is that if you get one you'll make me incredibly jealous.

[edit] was reading back through and saw a couple of things.
1. You could get a 350Z. It has ugly ass tail lights but it's pretty damned sporty and otherwise good looking.
2. Ruling out BMWs is a good move. for 60k you won't get much from BMW and their whole thing is kinda going down hill at the moment.
I would recomend the Toyota Supra, but I think your not older than 12 months disqualifies it.
Toyota MR2 is a nice car. Not sure about prices.

[scathing]

1. You could get a 350Z. It has ugly ass tail lights but it's pretty damned sporty and otherwise good looking.

Toyota MR2 is a nice car. Not sure about prices.

The tail lights are the best part of the 350Z's design! They're the most attractive part of what amounts to an ugly lump of a car.

But nah, you don't want a 350Z. Too harsh, too heavy (both in mass and weight of controls), and not particularly practical. You have to want an annoying-to-drive-around-but-quick-on-the-track kind of car to get one. Its not quite Elise / Exige kind of focused, but a lot of people find the boot, lack of rear seats, weight of controls, and poor visibility to be really annoying on the road.

The MR2 is a nice car....if you want a cafe cruiser. They're the most limp-wristed pieces of crap otherwise. Sure, the engine makes power...but they're peaky and the gearbox is too slow to match an engine that has to be stirred. The old MR2 was gorgeous in its day; the current one is fucking ugly.

[druid]

Trust me, a BMW isn't all that when it comes to a performance car. Its scary that some people buy the marketing into thinking its an "ultimate driving machine". Its not. Its the ultimate "going to the shops, or to the cafe in Lane Cove to see Carole and her new dog Mitzi" kind of car.


Riders of Bayern, what news from the Werk?

http://gallery.zgeek.com/albums/uploads/4_800.sized.jpg

[Lurgen]

I was in your exact situation a few years back, and bought a Holden Calais (supercharged V6) and a CBR600 with the leftovers. The Calais was fast, comfortable and seated the required number of arses, the bike was for me (and me only!).

Alternatively you could easily afford a Subaru Liberty GT for that sort of money - it's bloody fast, very comfortable, and looks cool. They didn't exist when I bought my last car, but if given the choice over again the Liberty would be high on my list. Or a WRX, but that ain't a comfy car so much as a missile.

[scathing]

Riders of Bayern, what news from the Werk?

http://gallery.zgeek.com/albums/uploads/4_800.sized.jpg

Merely an engine does not a true performance car make.

The Porsche Cayenne has a twin-turbo V8 and an enviable pedigree (far superior to BMW's), but on the track its no performance car. It'll monster anything in a straight line, but the moment you encounter bends in the road cars with no turbos around a third of the engine displacement will disappear in the distance.

The new M5 is going to weigh more than the old one. While I have no doubt that it will outperform the old one too, its kind of funny that the previous M5 (which was easily voted Germany's premier sports four-door) got beaten around the Nurburgring, the very track BMW, Audi, Mercedes etc use as their testing track to hone the setup, by a HSV GTS (http://www.hsv.com.au/vy/1024/gts.html) (not that specific model, but from the same time as the BMW). A car that's never seen the 'ring.

Can someone tell me the cost of the old M5 in Germany? I don't want to compare the prices that were in Australia (since an import vs a domestic car's price would hardly be fair) but, for Australians at least, if you were after a fast four door (rather than a fast, luxurious, four door) the Holden Special Vehicle was a better bet than the might of the Bayerishe Motoren Werke (let alone if you spent the $100,000 price difference on modifications).

[druid]

Merely an engine does not a true performance car make.

I wasn't trying to make a point with the engine alone, I just wanted a simple picture. Out of the very many available that was one of the first and it also had the M prominently displayed. I also recognised that it's way out of the price range mentioned in this thread but I chose to keep my post simple and brief mainly because of the catchphrase. ;)

Being beaten by the HSV may have been funny, I don't know the story so I can't comment. But I would say that it does not disprove that the M5 is a high performance car (and that was my original point after reading the tongue-in-cheek generalisation of coffee shop cruisers.*) I know an e39 M5 owner who has ordered the e60 so maybe he can enlighten us about the differences (and there are a lot) when he gets it.


Can someone tell me the cost of the old M5 in Germany?

New or used? Now or then when it was just released? If you give me a desired km and age range I can look it up but I'm afraid it will be a used car as I only know of one really good German car search engine.




* which I do not really deny because that one coffee drive was very nice

P.S. r0p3 g1rl, sorry for going off topic.