US Government to Ban Vegetable Gardens

Woah that would suck. I am currently starting my own veg garden. Just to be ready for the apocalypse.
I'd be pissed if some twat said I could grow my own beans and toms.

Rather than teaching individuals to become self sustaining, the goal of the UN’s Agenda 21 initiative is for the government to provide sustainability to the population. And according to Michael Shaw, president of Freedom Advocates, Agenda 21 can be summarized by three points and are supported by the documents prepared by the United Nations.
The goals of the UN include the abolition of rural and suburban private property, global citizenship education, and population control. It sounds scary, perhaps even unbelievable. But don’t take our word for it, read the Agenda 21 Core Publications at the United Nations Division for Sustainable Development.

To paraphrase Charlton Heston: ...they can have my shovel, when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

I guess given how good they are at stopping people from growing dirty-great cannabis plantations, stopping people from growing a few cabbages might well be beyond them.

I could never understand the Tea Partiests claim of Obama Socialism, but reading that bit about the UN Agenda 21, I can now see their point. That is pure Stalinism at the least, Marxist at the extreme.

Backscratcher just pointed out that banning recreational fishing and the backyard vegie plot with chooks etc. will probably not stand up to Constitutional scrutiny, the pursuit of Liberty and Happiness and all that.
What worries me the most is with Chairman Rudd at the helm, the communist bent of the UN will find a willing advocate here.

Originally Posted by Marchpig

Backscratcher just pointed out that banning recreational fishing and the backyard vegie plot with chooks etc. will probably not stand up to Constitutional scrutiny, the pursuit of Liberty and Happiness and all that.

They can back-door it, as they appear to be doing by regulating "commercial" food production, with the onus then being on the individual to prove that their "food production facility" is not a commercial one.

Originally Posted by Marchpig

What worries me the most is with Chairman Rudd at the helm, the communist bent of the UN will find a willing advocate here.

Possibly the best thing going for us there is Chairman Rudd's government's absolute, unmitigated incompetence with regard to doing _anything_ at all outside of having meetings and "seeking community input".

Hmm, as far as I can tell, those two US laws don't prevent you from having a vege garden at home, just that if you're going to grow food crops or raise animals, you have to meet the FDA standards. Sure, that is an intrusion, but it's hardly a "we're gunna ban all home vege patches" level of government interference.

I have this fascination with the way Americans fear, above all else, Government control of anything. The prime example is that they would rather be bankrupted by a hospital visit, than have universal health care run by the man.

Man that is so shitty, extrapolate that to it's extreme and we might as well learn Mandarin, coz China will be the biggest advocate of those policies and hence would have no problem with being the enforcers of it. Shit they got 60 years experience of forcing the Stalinist agenda on unwilling populations

A war is won, inch by inch.
A smart oppressor will not take it all at once, for that will be noticeable by the plebe masses. Instead just take an inch at a time.... and continue to do so until there is nothing left, and its too late to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by fubar

Hmm, as far as I can tell, those two US laws don't prevent you from having a vege garden at home, just that if you're going to grow food crops or raise animals, you have to meet the FDA standards. Sure, that is an intrusion, but it's hardly a "we're gunna ban all home vege patches" level of government interference.

Sure, and Senator Conroy's internet filter is just going to filter out "illegal stuff".

Originally Posted by fubar

I have this fascination with the way Americans fear, above all else, Government control of anything. The prime example is that they would rather be bankrupted by a hospital visit, than have universal health care run by the man.

Governments are not your friend. Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to schoolboys.

Originally Posted by dwarfthrower

Governments are not your friend. Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to schoolboys.

Seconded. Truer words have never been spoken.

Originally Posted by dwarfthrower

Sure, and Senator Conroy's internet filter is just going to filter out "illegal stuff".

Poor analogy is poor. LOL, that is almost Strawman-by-Analogy.

Originally Posted by dwarfthrower

Governments are not your friend. Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to schoolboys.

Yes! that's the attitude i'm talking about. Next time, try to mix in some references to God and the "founding fathers". Oh, and at least one conspiracy.

Originally Posted by Blink

Seconded. Truer words have never been spoken.

I must admit they're not mine. P.J. O'Rourke from memory.

Originally Posted by fubar

Poor analogy is poor. LOL, that is almost Strawman-by-Analogy.

Explain yourself. A) that wasn't an analogy, and B) I'm hardly misrepresenting anyone's position.

Originally Posted by fubar

Yes! that's the attitude i'm talking about. Next time, try to mix in some references to God and the "founding fathers". Oh, and at least one conspiracy.

Here's an idea, how about you actually explain why not wanting to acquiesce control over every aspect of your life to faceless bureaucrats in Washington/Canberra/Your Capital City is such a bad thing.

This all sounds a little too Alex Jonesesque for me to take seriously...

Originally Posted by fubar

Poor analogy is poor. LOL, that is almost Strawman-by-Analogy.

Excellent analogy is excellent dipshit.

Yes! that's the attitude i'm talking about. Next time, try to mix in some references to God and the "founding fathers". Oh, and at least one conspiracy.

Ah, I'm with DT on this, the more Big Government intrudes on our day to day lives, the less freedom we have, they should stick to defending our shores, pushing our barrow overseas and otherwise fuck off from our lives.

I'm not wading into the debate except to post an opposing source article. both articles are obviously written with a political leaning influencing interpretation. concerns are valid as is rationally sorting through unfounded fears.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-j..._b_183096.html

Originally Posted by ms edeity

I'm not wading into the debate except to post an opposing source article. both articles are obviously written with a political leaning influencing interpretation. concerns are valid as is rationally sorting through unfounded fears.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-j..._b_183096.html

Or... one could go and read the full text of the bill and see for themselves that yes, while there are no specific provisions for doing things like forcing vegetable patch operators to allow federal inspectors onto their properties to check that their rhubarb was grown in accordance with FDA guidelines, there are no protections from such things either.

Governments giving themselves broad and far-reaching powers != unfounded, especially for the country that introduced the Patriot Act.

I'm just saying that it doesn't mean that it would ever mean that 'the man' will stop them from growing a cabbage in the back yard either.
raising a concern for clarification is appropriate (introduce an amendment perhaps) and getting people to take a deep breath because the sky isn't falling is also appropriate.

Originally Posted by fubar

Hmm, as far as I can tell, those two US laws don't prevent you from having a vege garden at home, just that if you're going to grow food crops or raise animals, you have to meet the FDA standards. Sure, that is an intrusion, but it's hardly a "we're gunna ban all home vege patches" level of government interference.

I have this fascination with the way Americans fear, above all else, Government control of anything. The prime example is that they would rather be bankrupted by a hospital visit, than have universal health care run by the man.

Labelling it as fear is an easy out. It insinuates that ignorance is the cause and there is no situation or issues to discuss or evaluate.

Listen to Pelosi and count how often she talks of the conservative base's fear and lack of understanding. The conservative base's anger. People just don't UNDERSTAND the issues. The uber - intelligent progressive base knows what's best. Etc.....etc......

(Most) Americans don't fear government control of "anything." Many aspects of our society are by necessity regulated by the government.... i.e. education, military, transportation. Our problem is with the increasing movement of government to grow in size and control. Our country was based on a Republic system where as the federal government was supposed to have very limited control and most issues were left to the individual states to allow the actual citizens in any given area to tailor their local governments to best represent them and their views.

Take a room full of people and one person walks in with a cake. Cake goes from one person to another. Each person sneaks a nibble and passes it to the next person. Now, the number of hands it goes through decides what is left when it reaches it's ultimate destination. Also..... you gotta pay these people to stand around and steal cake while it reaches a destination right across the room. This is the problem with a large federal system. We send our taxes off on a trip through our convaluted system, and wait to receive a lesser amount of service in the end than if the process had been simplified and more localized.

Concerning healthcare, Americans have a legitamate concern. We see our current system, then look at Mitt Romney's experiment in his state. I don't believe universal healthcare is the answer for the US. Many people would be less worried if the current administration had kept their promises of transparancy. They are pushing the fuck outta this thing and being very misleading about the figures and regulations involved. Look at the actual budget projections and explain how they keep saying it's going to save $ when the taxation would begin immediately and the actual services of universal healthcare wouldn't begin for 4 years or more.
The Obama administration is playing shitty Washington politics just like Bush.

Also, I don't believe a government has the right to tell me I can't eat trans-fats, smoke cigarettes, or drive an SUV. If the progressives had free run, the entire country would resemble the current system in California. How's that working out for them concerning budget and liberties?