Csi

[Hired Goon]

I'm sorta gettin annoyed with the CSI and it's stupidly linear plot lines. Here's a summary of the standard CSI storyline
1. Guy/Girl gets murdered good and proper
2. Regular detectives secure the crime scene with police tape, but haven't got any clues about pretty much everything
3. CSI get called in
4. Take blood/hair samples/tyre tracks/footprints etc
5. Meanwhile, regular detectives still ain't got no clues - looking up "murder" on google or something
6. CSI run tests and re-enactments piecing together what has happened with microscopes and stuff
7. CSI identify and solve the crime with virtually no analysis of normal evidence, such as motive, alibi etc

I just find it stupid that every episode is the bloody same. Maybe people don't agree with me, but Law and Order own's CSI's arse. CSI is waaay too Scooby Doo. The only thing that is missing is "and I would've gotten away with it if it wasn't for you pesky forensic detectives". Bah!

[THO]

I think you're right about CSI. It does have linear plot lines, and it is so predictable that I stopped watching it after the third episode. Law & order is worse though. The whole "ripped from the headlines!" thing is getting old, and if linear plot lines have a grandfather, it's L&O. Same shit every series, every show.

[Chocoholic]

I totally agree with HiredGoon. A lot of TV series are the same week in week out but I still watch them. I like CSI (original) manly due to Grisom(sp?) CSI Miami shits me though.

I can't comment on Law and Order as I don't watch it. Which in its self is saying that I don't like it.

Having said that I also like THO signature but I am still going to call it Z(ee)

[Buffalo]

I really like the new(ish) one about missing people. Can't remember the name though...

It's shot in a really cool way, and the story lines are interesting (if a little un-plausible at times)...

[ShadowNemesis]

Originally posted by Buffalo
I really like the new(ish) one about missing people. Can't remember the name though...

It's shot in a really cool way, and the story lines are interesting (if a little un-plausible at times)...

Without A Trace????? with Anthony Lapaglia(spelling)

[DJos]

Well I really like both CSI's and Without a Trace, Yes the Plot lines in CSI are linear but it's the journey and all the geeky science stuff that does it for me. :)

[kleph]

i've had a real problem with the premise of this show from the start, partly because i've known quite a few homicide detectives as well as crime scene analyists.

so each episode has all the csi folks languishing around working on this one crime. most cops i know bust their ass on any number of cases and are typically juggling several major ones at one given time. las vegas, where the show is set, had a total of 145 murders last year. with probably two dozen homicide detectives at most (remember the las vegas metropolitan police department is part of the sheriff's office and responsible for murders across the county as well) that's a lot of cases to shoulder at any one time not even counting the backlog.

second, these labs are fucking expensive. sure a major metropolitan area like las vegas can afford it more often than most. but you got a typical domestic violence record, a dead wife and a husband with a baseball bat covered in her blood - how much more you gonna dig on your limited budget? all those little tests they spend all the time running cost bucks and most departments ain't gonna pay unless the case is in the bag and they are solidifying the prosecutor's case.

third, there is a limited amount of data to put such a detailed analaysis against. while one of the most touted tools of csi work is DNA analysis, there are two gaping holes in the system. the database of samples of suspected criminals is woefully incomplete and the number of cases where evidence exists but either hasn't been forwarded for examination or a jurisdiction can't afford to do so is huge.

fourth, most homicides are solved by what is known as "shoeleather detective work." by far, most homicides are a crime of passion and solved relatively quickly. round up the usual suspect and wait for the one to break. if a homicide isn't solved within 48 hours, it most likely won't be. last year the las vegas homicide unit solved - about 10 percent lower than other cities of similar size nationally. what you see on "law and order" is a hell of a lot closer to what these guys do but imagine them juggling ten or so cases at the same time you are watching the case for the episode.

fifth, while it might be fun to find the bad guy and get the showdown before the final credits, what these guys actually do is assemble evidence to be used in court. sure, it might be able to id the guy that might have done the crime, but typically they already know who it is and need the forensics to back up the other evidence in the case. a cop only needs probable cause to haul your butt into jail but to win a case a prosecutor needs evidence beyond a reasonable doubt - and that is the real heroic work these lab folks do day in and day out.

so, in sum, want a realistic cop show? go dig up episodes of "homicide"

[DJos]

kleph, I personally could care less if it's not based in reality, as long as the science stuff is "believable" and the human interaction is interesting I'll keep watching.

[Fuzzy Dice]

Allow me to fucking rant, if you will:

Regular police work:

Police investigate a crime scene. They take samples back to the CSI people, most of whom will never see the crime scene and all of whom will never be involved in an arrest or an interrogation. The evidence is analysed and given back to the detectives, so that they might pursue the responsable parties. edit: and lawyers, most of this evidence is for court purposes

CSI - The TV show:

Not only do the CSI's investigate the crime scene (damn near ALL of them), they also arrest the suspect, interview him/her and all the witnesses and the detectives do rampantly FUCK ALL.

CSI is to real police work what Dog Shit is to a full course meal at a 5 star restaurant. Fucking networks. Dickheads, the lot of them.

[druid]

My main grudge about CSI is how they explain everything to the dumbest viewer.

"I am now telling you stuff in layman's terms even though you should know this stuff already because you work here. Not only am I wasting our time but also that of the viewers. Anyway so DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. Tough word I know so let's say it again deoxy-ribo-nucleic acid. Got it? The marvelous thing about DNA is that it is life's building block *pulls out finger puppets to illustrate the issue..."

This happens quite often and is not the sole right of CSI. Glitches like this break the watching experience violently.
Let the dumb viewers remain dumb! :swear:

[FireHart]

Originally posted by druid
My main grudge about CSI is how they explain everything to the dumbest viewer.

"I am now telling you stuff in layman's terms even though you should know this stuff already because you work here. Not only am I wasting our time but also that of the viewers. Anyway so DNA stands for deoxyribonucleic acid. Tough word I know so let's say it again deoxy-ribo-nucleic acid. Got it? The marvelous thing about DNA is that it is life's building block *pulls out finger puppets to illustrate the issue..."

This happens quite often and is not the sole right of CSI. Glitches like this break the watching experience violently.
Let the dumb viewers remain dumb! :swear:

What he said.

[sagit]

Originally posted by kleph
...

so, in sum, want a realistic cop show? go dig up episodes of "homicide"


homicide the aussie show :p (what about matlock?) or "homicide: life on the street"?

I have s1 & s2 of h:lots becoz i loved that show

[hazza]

L&O* > *





ty sagit:banana:

[DJos]

Originally posted by Fuzzy Dice
Allow me to fucking rant, if you will:

Regular police work:

Police investigate a crime scene. They take samples back to the CSI people, most of whom will never see the crime scene and all of whom will never be involved in an arrest or an interrogation. The evidence is analysed and given back to the detectives, so that they might pursue the responsable parties. edit: and lawyers, most of this evidence is for court purposes

CSI - The TV show:

Not only do the CSI's investigate the crime scene (damn near ALL of them), they also arrest the suspect, interview him/her and all the witnesses and the detectives do rampantly FUCK ALL.

CSI is to real police work what Dog Shit is to a full course meal at a 5 star restaurant. Fucking networks. Dickheads, the lot of them.

Fuzzy, I support (IT) the Victoria Police including the Forensic's folk out at Macleod (VFSL) and the fact is that the "CSI's" or FSO's (Forensic Science Officers) as the VicPolice call them do attend crime scenes but mainly "major" crime scenes like murders etc. The regular cops only dust for finger prints and look for evidence in small time stuff like house breakins/burglarys.

So anyways my point is that CSI is not tha far removed from relality and I know this cause I asked an FSO today when I changed his Access Permissions for the VFSL File Server.

Edit: Btw they do also have "lab rats" who dont go anywhere and are not "sworn" members.

[DJos]

Originally posted by kleph
from what i understand the tests and procedures are taken from real life but the lab i saw in the one episode i caught was 100 percent pure fiction. every foresnsic lab i've ever seen was a back corner of the building with files and detrius over all the equipment. it's a mess because it's a place people fucking work.

it is not uncommon for forensics folks to be at the scene of a major crime but it's gotta be a big one. typically, crime scene analysts will just take what they need back to the lab. i once covered a case when the cops shot a guy in his mom's home and they just cut up the part of the carpet where he fell to analyse it later.

and, yes, most are not sworn officers. and even if they were sworn officers they wouldn't ever have a reason to pull their guns - much less have a firefight every week.

I've never seen the VFSL in person but I understand that it's a dedicated purpose built Forensics lab complex and apparently close to FBI Standards. It does all the forensic work for the entire state of Victoria so it should be good.

your'e right about the carpet type stuff tho and I beleive that the FSO's liase with the Detectives and dont have direct contact with the perp's.

[Naiad]

Nope. If you want realism - try Bargearse. The one over-dubbed by The Late Show.

It was so funny, they sold it to the BBC is the UK: Bargearse (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A1126225)

That was the funniest shit evar. Better than Funky Squad (although Funky Squad was pretty funny).

[Hired Goon]

Nope. If you want realism - try Bargearse. The one over-dubbed by The Late Show.

It was so funny, they sold it to the BBC is the UK: Bargearse

That was the funniest shit evar. Better than Funky Squad (although Funky Squad was pretty funny).

Yeah. Late show farny good. Too bad that some of the founding members have gone downhill on the Panel. It's crudtacular, but that's another bitch and/or rant!

[iaidoka]

I would rather not watch CSI, because its dumb. However, its unfortunatley my wifes favorite show and thus I get to endure it twice a week.

I agree with said points here, they dumb down too often.. boring linear plots and scientists that have replaced the need for detectives..

I hate shows that pretend to be all realistic and true to life and in actuality i think iv seen more realistic star trek episodes =(

[Drakin]

bah even the tellys a fuckin police state...

[Buffalo]

What do you mean by a linear plot? I'm not sure I understand...

<Please excuse the ignorance>

[Bostonmess]

It doesn't dichotomize (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=dichotomize) :)

[Hired Goon]

Originally posted by Buffalo
What do you mean by a linear plot? I'm not sure I understand...

<Please excuse the ignorance>

Of, relating to, or resembling a line; straight.

In, of, describing, described by, or related to a straight line.
Having only one dimension.
Characterized by, composed of, or emphasizing drawn lines rather than painterly effects.
Botany. Narrow and elongated with nearly parallel margins: a linear leaf.
[Latin lîneâris, from lînea, line. See line1.]

Boo to CSI and it's associated linearishness (ok so that's not a word).

[Buffalo]

Oh for christ's sake - I know what "Linear" means...

What I meant was, When you describe the plot as "linear" what do you mean...

[Hired Goon]

Originally posted by Buffalo
Oh for christ's sake - I know what "Linear" means...

What I meant was, When you describe the plot as "linear" what do you mean...

I thought it was pretty self evident when I wrote it. ie a story line that is linear lacks variation (from episode to episode in this case) and the result is that the plot becomes predictable and somewhat boring -so metaphorically the plot is straight or linear.

No need to get grumpy Buffers!

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by HiredGoon
No need to get grumpy Buffers!

He he he ... I didn't mean to sound grumpy - Should have added a few emoticons to temper the flavour of the post... :)

I understand what you mean now. And of course, you are right - For the most part they are very predictible - even if you can't actually guess what the twist will be, you know it's coming up... There is always at least one.

That's why I quite like Without A Trace - because it's new, the format is a bit more unknown.... Still, over time it'll probably get boring. And the tacked-on emotional sub-plot is already getting annoying - "Oooooh... My Fucking marriage is breaking up... waaah waaah waaah BTW Can I sleep with my beautiful 2IC??"