Come Out of the (Broom) Closet!!!

[LauraleeBug]

Okay, Finally!!

Except for a *freak* email (<-- you know who you are!) I am pretty much on top of this one first for a change ....
Anyhoo, me & PoisonIvy were talking one day and were wondering....

How many of you out there are Wiccan? Witches? Followers of the Craft of the Wise?

Celtics? Druids? C'mon! Speak up! And if you are, do you do any Magick? What kind? High? Ceremonial? Esbat?

Drop us a line to talk about it!!!

So far there's me & newly initiated Android; Ivy & Lujan... GetWiththeProgram has well been living the lifestyle...

But I *know* there's a few dabbler's out there!! (<-- *Dragon*-baby, c'mon out & play!!!); I have my suspicions about *Buffy*; I know belief dwells in the heart of the skeptical *RaZ*; and I think *RickBishop* would make a cute horned god ("Pan the Man", horns&all!!!)

Why I'm really asking, is because; as everyone knows - I'm from NYC. I am of the Celtic tradition therefore I am a *northern hemisphere* witch...

... Am seeking like-minded individuals to teach me how to reverse & do circles, wheel of the year & herbal substitutions to conform the southern hemisphere and to Australia, my new earth mother...

That's it for now, I totally look forward to feedback, don't be shy... no opinion on wicca is out of bounds... Also, most wiccans decide at some point in their life to join a *coven* but I never have (unless you call making one out of my husband (my high priest & myself) a coven, I'm pretty much a solitary....

What's your spiritual story?? I wanna know cause I really care...


"... we all come from the G-ddess, and to her we will return; like a drop of rain, flowing to the ocean....
Isis, Astarte, Diana, Hectate, Demeter, Kali, Anana....
Corn to Grain, Grain to Corn... all that dies shall be reborn....."

[Naiad]

Ye gads!!...Tricked into opening the thread!!...I thought I was getting another chance to strut out of the closet in my fishnets!!...Although I'm not sure my parents could take that conversation all over again... :p

I did wonder what the brooms were about...Alas I am utterly unspiritual...I do wish I could believe in the dark arts and the manipulation of nature's power, but at this point in my life, I just...well...don't...

I do love the history of paganism and the culture and influences of the worship of nature (as with most history actually)...And really would like to dig deeper into how christianity hijacked pagan festivals and symbolism in its attempt to destroy the religion, but I'm not a believer... :)

[Lujan]

ahem, I am not Wiccan? Witches? Followers of the Craft of the Wise? Celtics? Druids? C'mon! Speak up! And if you are, do you do any Magick? What kind? High? Ceremonial? Esbat?

I am Asatru thankyou very much

[LauraleeBug]

Originally posted by Lujan
ahem, I am not

I am Asatru thankyou very much

Welp, sorry, big guy... I just saw the pentagram & talked to Ivy & made an "ass" out of "u" & "me" so let the assumptions be gone & tell me about it!!! :D

... /me eagerly awaits the wisdom of the man who won Ivy's heart.... LOL!

[Fuzzy Dice]

Not I said the Fuzz.

I have a very simple belief structure: in that i prefer to believe in my faith (anglican, shut up, like it's my fault) simply because i prefer the alternative offered by christianity after death to the alternative provided by many other religeons.

If we're right, then i have eternal bliss. if we're wrong, then essentially, i have squat.

but it beats a lot of the other options out there.

Frankly, i figure that God was bored one day, set out physical rules and provided some matter that would crash around. The rest has been random chance - ie - evolution. Whatever works survives.

And he's been laughing his ass off ever since.

[Goat Boy]

I've seen The Craft a few times and I thought Neve Campbell was hot. Does that count for anything?

[Scythe]

Allright I admit it. I am a pagan, although i'm not a strictly practicing Wiccan. I'm more interested in the ethical and philosophical principals than I am in the more ritual and religious aspects.

Although, I must admit to still not having told most of my family. Telling my fanatically Roman Catholic grandparents that I've forsaken their religion, and that I wield a bladed object as part of religious services, would probably guarantee a sharp decline in future birthday and (especially) Christmas presents.

I've seen The Craft a few times and I thought Neve Campbell was hot. Does that count for anything?

Yes, it means you have good taste. :)

[Buffy]

LOL goatboy
i always think of belly buttons when i hear or see Neve Campbell... neve... nave... navel :D
Shes probably full of fluff too..... oookkkk i go shhh now.

I don't believe in anything really, dabbled in just about everything , but not commited to any particular spiritual leaning...
its not that its all crap. I just don't have the energy to give to anything else other than work/sleep atm :D
you can call me L A Z Y :D :p

[Asmodeus]

I'm sure you know about me and satanism, and at some point I've voiced my views on wiccanism and other self deluded neopagans.

Anyways, drop me a line if you want to know something, etc.

[Tintin]

Most of my knowledge on this subject derives from childrens' books, Disney movies and 'The Wizard of Oz'. Also a very funny 'Full Frontal' sketch featuring Magda Szubanski. Enlighten us.

[Scythe]

Originally posted by Asmodeus
I'm sure you know about me and satanism, and at some point I've voiced my views on wiccanism and other self deluded neopagans.

Anyways, drop me a line if you want to know something, etc.

All religions require a degree of self deception, since they require people to believe in something for which exists no incontrevertible proof.

The problems come when people accept their beliefs without ever questioning them, and when they attempt to export those beliefs to others, whether those others want them of not.

[LauraleeBug]

Originally posted by Bifrost
Ye gads!!...Tricked into opening the thread!!...I thought I was getting another chance to strut out of the closet in my fishnets!!...Although I'm not sure my parents could take that conversation all over again... :p

Awww... sorry 'bout that... Althought we *do* have a playdate scheduled, now... Gf's & other on lookers invited :P

Originally posted by Bifrost
I did wonder what the brooms were about...Alas I am utterly unspiritual...I do wish I could believe in the dark arts and the manipulation of nature's power, but at this point in my life, I just...well...don't... I do love the history of paganism and the culture and influences of the worship of nature (as with most history actually)...And really would like to dig deeper into how christianity hijacked pagan festivals and symbolism in its attempt to destroy the religion,

Just for the record, I don't do "dark arts" as one of the first tennents of witchcraft is "do what thou wilt, but harm none...", and esp. the theory that whatever you do comes back to you 3 times over..... (the ol' "bread cast upon the waters of life" and all that...)

Yes, the christians have taken over Pagen holidays, indeed when the Romans were first taking over Europe; they had no other way to enforce the "new" holidays except making them conform to the old ways... Case in point, "May Day" (no. hemisphere); it has no purpose except a major wiccan holiday (called Beltane, the "marriage" holiday) was....

Originally posted by Bifrost
but I'm not a believer... :)

Sure you are... I can tell... :p

[LauraleeBug]

Originally posted by Asmodeus
I'm sure you know about me and satanism, and at some point I've voiced my views on wiccanism and other self deluded neopagans.

Anyways, drop me a line if you want to know something, etc.

I was actually hoping you would respond, was thinking of you when I first wrote this thread and although I know you like freakin' ppl out; I think I understand your beliefs and they are quite valid...

Let me point out, that while I was looking for something bigger, I didn't necessarily want to subscribe to *any* religion... I think religion is the opiate of the masses and am opposed to it on that level alone... still... there must be something, hey?

So, what did you expect me to become, Asmo? Neo-pagen would seem the most obvious way to go as I sit here knowing I am the fucken Angel Of Death that I work in the 4th dimension and this world isn't real... However the only way I can get home is to hang out for my natural lifespan & spend another fucken 80 years on the planet (since you can't get *matter* through a time-stream without being -- well, dead...) I just sit here & try to do my time without whingeing about the whole thing too much... However, I'm sick of this place!!!

How's bayou?

[Conny!]

I have a real problem in trying to deal with "faith" myself because i guess i don't really believe in something i don't see proof of and requires me to believe in order for it to do something,Occurences that maybe attributed to other forces i believe there is logical and rational explanation for. Like this whole thing about ghosts and ultrasound.
But i would like to think i'm open minded to different ideas, i just have a problem with thinking outside the square.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by LauraleeBug
I was actually hoping you would respond, was thinking of you when I first wrote this thread and although I know you like freakin' ppl out; I think I understand your beliefs and they are quite valid...

Let me point out, that while I was looking for something bigger, I didn't necessarily want to subscribe to *any* religion... I think religion is the opiate of the masses and am opposed to it on that level alone... still... there must be something, hey?

So, what did you expect me to become, Asmo? Neo-pagen would seem the most obvious way to go as I sit here knowing I am the fucken Angel Of Death that I work in the 4th dimension and this world isn't real... However the only way I can get home is to hang out for my natural lifespan & spend another fucken 80 years on the planet (since you can't get *matter* through a time-stream without being -- well, dead...) I just sit here & try to do my time without whingeing about the whole thing too much... However, I'm sick of this place!!!

How's bayou?

might be a clash of names and slang/terms here. most of the neopagans around here get that name from the rest becuase it sounded better than our usual more derisive term 'fluffy bunnie tree huggers' meaning more of a "wannabe happy huggy tree hippy who is more or less seeking in excuse to do whatever they want by borrowing parts of canned lines from other paganistic religions to free themselves from their still ingrained christian ways and guilt and ignore any idea of a dark side and just think light and happiness and weed and nakedness and cheap sex. Weeeeeeeee. But I'll cling to this as an actual religion and use a generic term becuase I'm still really a christian at heart but cant accept it myself. happy happy thoughts happy happy thoughts"

While I have no doubt you'll steer clear of that frame of mind, I thought I made that point before, but then again, it could have bene on another board since it was a while ago. Realistically, you do what makes you happy so long as it doesn't bring harm to others. While thats basically the satanic way, its also generally a universal truth held in most belief systems out there in some form or another.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by Scythe
All religions require a degree of self deception, since they require people to believe in something for which exists no incontrevertible proof.

The problems come when people accept their beliefs without ever questioning them, and when they attempt to export those beliefs to others, whether those others want them of not.

very true, read my reply to buggy for my thoughts on why my reply was worded the way it was.

[Bostonmess]

I have the Aleister Crowley Thoth Tarot deck (http://www.arwen.no/webshop/tarotkort/tarot018.htm), very nice deck, check out the death card, that's me :) (Scorpio). I also have some rune stones. I'm not really into it although I did once give a tarot reading to someone and she said that it seemed very accurate. I cheated, I knew she was having "disagreements" with her deputy at work and "bent" some of the readings to suggest that to her. Heh heh, fifty quid sucker! :D nahh, I didn't rip her off, it would have been funny though.

I've just remembered what that reading was all about. My g/f and her mates hired a clairvoyant? (right word?) and she gave a tarot reading to them all. They asked if they could tape it and she said they could, but the voices always came out distorted (like Donald Duck). You couldn't tell what was being said. Being a very big sceptic and thinking what a load of bollox, I more or less insisted on it being recorded. I was quite shocked when the normally funtioning tape recorder broke and never worked again.

Heh heh, they had to step over an inebriated, sprawled out, six and half foot, walking, talking Jesus Christ replica in the hallway to get to the room too :D

[Nandragon]

Asmo:
by borrowing parts of canned lines from other paganistic religions to free themselves from their still ingrained christian ways and guilt and ignore any idea of a dark side and just think light and happiness and weed and nakedness and cheap sex.

This is true...I was very religious as a child. (my definition under 19) as I have grown so have my beliefs. I was fortunate enough to be exposed to many cultures during this time, but Jesus Christ has ALWAYS been a major contributor.

I believe in reincarnation.
YOU got to to....You KNOW damn well I've been a SUCCULENT WENCH before!:p

I read tarrot so accurate I'll scare the shit out of you.
I don't like to read the tarrot though because of negative influences/repercussions

I have SEEN the devil. To know evil is to know good.

As for Wiccan beliefs, see if any of you disagree

Live and let all else live,
Fairly take and fairly give.

Light of eye and soft of touch,
Speak ye little, listen much

Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
Let love and light be our guides again.

With a fool no season spend
Nor be counted as his friend.

Mind the Three-fold Law you should
Three times bad and three times good.

Eight words the Rede fulfil
"And it harm none, do what ye will".

Dabbling is not a good thing. Always remember your Karma.
I can't help you with the circle thing Bug since I am not even a novice. But I can give you a website that might lead you somewhere. There are online herb sites too.

[Asmodeus]

ooh, time to rip apart more things wiccan :)

Live and let all else live,
Fairly take and fairly give.

First line is ok, second is asking to be suckerpunched in teh nuts by fate, or any cut rate con man.. but in a perfect world, would be ok.

Light of eye and soft of touch,
Speak ye little, listen much

First line.. eh.. some people and things need a good ol' fashioned ass kicking, and if we want to get into that whole "turn teh other cheek' deal. Second line is just good common sense. Ears open, mouth shut.

Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
Let love and light be our guides again.

Old ones? We're talking about the god and goddess, right? Show me the body.. ok, well i'll give this one away, since anything is possible. I'll take it as a metaphor :)
Second line.... er.. how about common sense, rigorous self improvement, loveing those deserving, leave the rest on teh wayside.

With a fool no season spend
Nor be counted as his friend.

If one can define a fool, this might work, but many are too close minded. They see a fool as one who doesn't see it all their way. Fools can be good people, they're just dumbasses.

Mind the Three-fold Law you should
Three times bad and three times good.

This one always makes my laugh. 3 words, Christian Guilt Backlash.

Eight words the Rede fulfil
"And it harm none, do what ye will".

The tried and true line trotted out for most wiccans. Good in theory, yet fails horribly in practice. Too many justify their actions that make them happy as being inconsequential on the other party they screw over.

I prefer a different version: Do whatever you want as long as you harm no undeserving person. You can do whatever you want, but you pay the consequences. Responsibility to the responsible. But I'm a realist about things.


Different viewpoints i guess. Many of those things, people want to beleive, i mean reallt WANT to beleive and have happen, they just seem so right, don't they? But then we have to deal with what we have now.

We should all follow the adncing banana and make merriment and party, like our friend the dancing banana. :banana:

[Nandragon]

It goes to show that everyone has a different perspective on things too!

Live and let all else live,
Fairly take and fairly give.

Fairly give and fairly take:GREED

Light of eye and soft of touch,
Speak ye little, listen much.

"Light of eye" is an injuntion against staring forcefully at another, and comes from the Stregan "evil eye". And the second line has always been sage advice.

Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
Let love and light be our guides again.

Similar to "Honor thy father and mother", but this means anyone elder, not just family. Somehow politeness is being lost in today's society.

When you have and hold a need,
Harken not to others greed.

One should not do magick out of greed, but out of need. So if someone offers you money to do a spell for them, what is your motivation? And what is theirs? Do you want to attract dependent people to you who could possibly put so many demands on your energy that you have no time for yourself? This one is thought provoking, isn't it?

With a fool no season spend
Nor be counted as his friend.

Or in other words, people know you by the company you keep....

Merry Meet and Merry Part
Bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Also self explanatory... we're all pretty happy to see one another, and open expressions of affection are encouraged.

Mind the Three-fold Law you should
Three times bad and three times good.

The three-fold law refers to the belief that whatever you sent out, be it good or ill, will return to you three-fold. There is a common saying used these days - "What goes around, comes around." - which means much the same thing, except that we multiply that energy by three. Since "energy follows thought" it seems it would be wise to avoid thinking negatively, because that's what you'll attract to you.

Eight words the Rede fulfil
"And it harm none, do what ye will".

This "Rede" is the law by which Witches live, with harm to none. Harming none, includes not harming yourself. The term "Harm" and what actually contitutes harm to another being, is a convoluted concept, and requires thought and meditation on the part of the Witch, to weigh possible consequences of actions to see if harm will result. Also bear in mind that you have no right to do magick or cast spells on another person WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION! This IS considered harm, as you are forcing your will on them, even if you are doing a healing spell. This concept can be the most difficult for a person new to the Craft to grasp, yet it is the most important, and the cornerstone of our religion and beliefs. It makes you totally responsible for your actions and their results. If you have a dilemma, it's best to get another informed opinion before acting, especially if your are strongly and emotionally attached to the result.
The only person you can work all the magick you like for is yourself!

[Scythe]

Originally posted by Nandragon
Eight words the Rede fulfil
"And it harm none, do what ye will".

This "Rede" is the law by which Witches live, with harm to none. Harming none, includes not harming yourself. The term "Harm" and what actually contitutes harm to another being, is a convoluted concept, and requires thought and meditation on the part of the Witch, to weigh possible consequences of actions to see if harm will result.

This is what I meant about taking things on faith. "An it harm none, do what ye will" may seem like a simple concept, but is it is much more complicated that it first appears, and requires a lot of thought, rather than blind adherence, which can often do more harm than good.

This theory may, if taken simplistically, seem to allow people to take any action regarding themselves that they want, as long as it causes no damage to anyone else. For example, drug abuse would seem to have no other victim that the addict, and so therefore present no problem as long as it is a path freely chosden, but i'm sure anyone who has known an addict is aware that this in anything but the case. Physical harm, psycholgical harm and emotional harm all have to be taken into account.

In order for it to function as a practical principal, it is often necessary to consider what will do the least harm to the least number, rather then doing no harm at all.

And yes, I am a utilitarian.

[Asmodeus]

Originally posted by Scythe
And yes, I am a utilitarian.

That pretty much mirrors my thoughts. As in my previous post:

"I prefer a different version: Do whatever you want as long as you harm no undeserving person. You can do whatever you want, but you pay the consequences. Responsibility to the responsible. But I'm a realist about things."

The first two would seem to somewhat conflict with each other, then again, upon closer inspection, they dont, its like a fallback for just how far out you want to fall from the general rule, since like anything, sometimes you just have to go out and kick some ass metaphorically or not. Upon chosing that action in that instance, if you do it, you stand up to the consequences.

[Scythe]

Originally posted by Asmodeus
That pretty much mirrors my thoughts. As in my previous post:

"I prefer a different version: Do whatever you want as long as you harm no undeserving person. You can do whatever you want, but you pay the consequences. Responsibility to the responsible. But I'm a realist about things."


The only problem I have with that perspective is that allows you to do whatever you want, as long as you know a way to avoid the consequences of your actions. I prefer the Wiccan Rede, both because it places the emphasis on the consequences themselves, rather than avoiding the responsibility for those consequences, and because, rather than trying to figure out who is deserving of harm and who is not, it is more about avoiding harm altogether.

I'm not saying that approach doesn't work, just that I'd rather avoid doing harm at all, rather than risk doing it to the wrong people.

*points at Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, etc...*

[druid]

Originally posted by LauraleeBug
Case in point, "May Day" (no. hemisphere); it has no purpose except a major wiccan holiday

Yes it does. The reason it is not related to religion is because it used to be the holiday of the working man, of the working class. It has changed to a less serious drunken festival especially in Scandinavia but you can still see massive demonstrations in Britain and some other European cities, maybe even with red flags. Even in the jolly Scandinavia there is a slight political connotation to it when the more leftist parties hold their speeches and try to organies some rallies.

As for all these different rules,

"Do not do unto others as you would they should do unto you. Their tastes may not be the same."

It's the main punchline of a sect called George-Bernard-Shawism.

[RASPUTIN]

My Wife and Mum are witches. They are not umm wiccans or whatever but they do healing with herbs and potions/remedies and other such stuff. Hehe when I hassle them out about being a bunch of witches they laugh at me and say yes but we are white witches.

Mum also uses magnetics to test for diseases as well. Both of them do pressure point stuff and wifey does tarots sometimes, but stops if she see's bad things.

Freaky stuff to me as I am like some people in here that need physical proof of anything but hey I rarely if ever get sick so I use what I can of their talents.

Weird thing is they are usually right or at least very close to the mark.

My wife looked at this woman once and said to her that she needed help about her arm very quickly like immediately or she would get very sick. Bumma is she died due to a cut that got infected and went gangreen.

[DrDivad]

all i know is witches always head left, and towards fire

[KrisEz]

lol people who dont zgeek anymore.

[bobdown]

So fucken what?!?!

[muppet]

some of them still do, to some extent. They lurk more now.

[Marchpig]

Buffy, Scythe, Goatboy, Asmodeus, Tintin, Druid, Bostonmess, Still regularly posting, Loltroll is waaaaaaaay off on this one.

[KrisEz]

Buffy, Scythe, Goatboy, Asmodeus, Tintin, Druid, Bostonmess, Still regularly posting, Loltroll is waaaaaaaay off on this one.

OOOH princess. thats like HALF.
gtfo.

[muppet]

... and I think *RickBishop* would make a cute horned god ("Pan the Man", horns&all!!!)


I wanna see bish all kitted out as Pan, altho, he's more Green Man if you ask me.

[Scythe]

Wow, retro.

[King_Crud]

needs more threads of that guy who had a sword and his wife has cancer or something

[and3w]

Android had MS or something like that. LauraLeeBug was his missus.

[King_Crud]

nah i just remembered, iadoka

[and3w]

Yeah, was Iadoka but I think he changed it to Android later?

[~vjay~]

Yeah, was Iadoka but I think he changed it to Android later?

Nope.

He means this one I think. (http://www.zgeek.com/forum/f7/linkage-t23713/post628110.html)

[Marchpig]

OOOH princess. thats like HALF.
gtfo.


Little bit more precise than your generalisation. you gtfo.

[Scumbag]

What happened to SOC?

[SG]

Lauraleebug once gave me two quartz crystals that "grew" together; looking through both of them was supposed to show you "things"; (lol, whut) I was supposed to be really careful to look after it because it had some sort of history or some such, heh - although I suspected this too was a load of crap. Not sure why I let her give it to me. Funny thing was I put the rocks in my pocket and they broke apart on the way home. She asked me later at one point how the rocks were and I said to her "er, yeah - they're fine" and she told me she knew it and smiled. I couldn't help laughing inside.

I can't say I have ever really been too impressed by those sort of religions, but people can believe whatever they want imo.

[Spades]

Lauraleebug once gave me two quartz crystals that "grew" together; looking through both of them was supposed to show you "things"; (lol, whut) I was supposed to be really careful to look after it because it had some sort of history or some such, heh - although I suspected this too was a load of crap. Not sure why I let her give it to me. Funny thing was I put the rocks in my pocket and they broke apart on the way home. She asked me later at one point how the rocks were and I said to her "er, yeah - they're fine" and she told me she knew it and smiled. I couldn't help laughing inside.

I can't say I have ever really been too impressed by those sort of religions, but people can believe whatever they want imo.

you can get my rocks off anyday - thats my religion...

[ShinymetalASS]

I have a pentagram tattoed on my ASS and I use the Runes all the time and have a bunch of crystals.

mmmm that's about it.

I'm too lazy for structured effort in any particular belief. But I'm open minded to everyone that returns the favour.


EDIT: I didn't read the retro talk. I didn't even notice the original thread dates.

I'm oblivious really.