Design your dream car

[DrDivad]

For me, i think it would be something small and angular,

n/a powered engine, maybe a inline 6 or a rotary,
forged internals, revs out to 9ish say,
power from 3-8
mid engine,
only need 200 ish KW, cos it'd be all about the handling

man, that'd be a hill climbin beast!

[oracle]

Just getting this out of the way... Someone was bound to do it.

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~joshua.y/forumpic/thehomer.gif

[DrDivad]

hehe put my engine in that and DEAL!

[scathing]

Originally posted by DrDivad
For me, i think it would be something small and angular,

n/a powered engine, maybe a inline 6 or a rotary

Like, say, a Vortex with a 13B conversion? ;)

[DrDivad]

that would be quite amusing.........and i do know of a 13b peripheral port that i could obtain......

however power between 8 and 11, and nothing below 5 is a bit impractical

[Blunt]

Best. Car. Ever.

[Kyle]

Originally posted by oracle
Just getting this out of the way... Someone was bound to do it.


Beat me to the chase I see

[robotoverflow]

Originally posted by Blunt
Best. Car. Ever.
Worst. Anime. Ever.

[DumHed]

die!


I'm in the process of building the closest I can realistically get to my ideal car :)

[DrDivad]

Originally posted by DumHed
die!


I'm in the process of building the closest I can realistically get to my ideal car :)

hehe does that include the paint job?

[THO]

I would like mine with:
5.0L DOHC with 60 degree bank angle
Aluminum block and heads
Forged internals
Rollerized valvetrain
single turbo, with power coming on at about 3500, and peaking out around 9000.

preferably in rear-drive platform around 2500lbs.

Totally impractical, and probably impossible, but it would be fun, no doubt.

[DumHed]

Originally posted by DrDivad
hehe does that include the paint job?

I care not for ricey paint!

[Blunt]

Yeah, why paint when you can BOG! :D

[DumHed]

hey all the bog fell off, it's a bog free zone!

[still life]

dumhed's car is cool, it's so rounded



it's just rounded in very disorganised ways, held together with tape and zip ties :D

my ideal car is... my car!

only with better suspension setup, plush pimp-leather insides and the bit of paint damage on the passenger door fixed :D

[thingy]

My ideal car?
http://www.zgeek.com/albums/albvf71/Volkswagen_Golf_Cabriolet_0.thumb.jpg (http://www.zgeek.com/gallery/albvf71/Volkswagen_Golf_Cabriolet_0)

... then again, maybe not.

[7sean2]

This is in a different class,eat your heart out....lmao

[scathing]

Unfortunately my ultimate dream car would require a TARDIS-like ability to be small and nimble while having a practical interior and creature comfots, and a mega-powerful engine that spins freely yet has usable torque from the entire rev range (and no lag).

I have to separate my "dream car" into a driver's car and a daily driver. One would be a mega-harsh car that went like the clap, and the other would be nice, soft, and could carry a couple of people.

[kré]

it'd be something like a hsv coupe, but with more grunt.

[Salted_Chipmunk]

Mine would have to be (as i have said numerous times before)

Modded by myself - a Mk1 Ford Escort with the round headlights not the crappy square ones. Must have a 2.2L turbo Cosworth engine probably around 300-400 neddies churning out, big fat ass buble arches all around with the welds blended in perfecly with the panels, redo the interior with leather. mmmmmmm finally slap some superlights on it for the authentic rally look and top it off with a subtle paint job.

If i were to buy a car that has already been done. Probably the Ford Sierra rs500 or the newest incarnation of the Escort Cosworth as seen in Getaway in Stockholm 2.

[kré]

bah, allow me to change that

~200hp '67 or earlier beetle w/ IRS conversion

[durus]

My Ideal car would be a Recent Model MX5 with Hardtop and Projector Headlights (awesome for night driving). The engine swapped for an RX8 engine. I'd probably leave it NA as the Renesis rotary engine can make pretty damn good power without the turbo. Maybe an upgrade to the breaks would be on order too (haven't driven an MX5).

Basically small, light, rear wheel drive, well balanced, good power and good stopping.

There have been some rotarty conversions done on MX5s, but none with the new engine.

[jaseparlo]

One of my friends did a masters in Automotive Design, then lost three years to MUDs. He's just decided to start sketching again, and was looking for ideas, so we told him to bring the Panel Van into the new millenium. He's done some drawings, but I've yet to see them. The idea is great though.

[still life]

I think holden may have beaten you to it

http://www.autoexpo.com.au/new2001/images/_sandman_fr_angle.jpg

[jaseparlo]

Pisser. A while ago by the look of that. What is it, VT era? Looks a bit of a shoppery, where did you find it, if you don't mind me asking?

[still life]

saw it at the motorshow

HERE (http://drive.fairfax.com.au/cgi-bin/drive2002/wrapper.cgi?article=..%2Fdocs%2Fcontent-new%2Fnews%2Fgeneral%2F2000%2F11%2F20%2Fnews1.html&make=&family=&desc=&IsDealer=&search_query=&result_query=&site_section=news&cat=findarticles&subCat=&pType=searchresults&querytext=sandman)

[jaseparlo]

Ah well I bow to your greater experience then :) Although, do you reckon anybody in the heydey of the Sandman referred to a ute as a "tradeperson's vehicle"? A bit politically correct...

That article was three years ago now, almost to the day. I remember when I first started at my current workplace in 1998, a guy there was in Amway, and one of the Amway honchos in Australia had custom cut a 'monaro' (called a hurricane at the time) from the latest Commodore.

A few years later, the Monaro was back. There may be hope for a new fuck truck yet :)

[still life]

i don't think so..... i don't think we need yet more ricey cars on the street


let alone more commodores

[jaseparlo]

Are you trying to start some kind of religious war?

[still life]

no, i prefer to discuss topics with a) less groundless fervour (religion) b) an opposing point of view that has a factual basis :)

[Necron]

GRRRR....... Why bag the Commodore, It's a fucking awesome car.
(Each to his own)

My ideal car....... my VT commodore with vt senator bodykit and nice 19x8 vx GTS rims. new additions....Maybe a new genIII 300kw 5.7ltr V8 with minor mods. or a custom HRT 427 engine from the not to be HRT 427 coupe.

[scathing]

Mine's pretty easy.

1997 Civic
HKS Turbocharged Integra Type-R engine with Turbosmart RFL BOV
Civic Type-R Bodykit
Dual A'Pexi N1-style Exhaust with 4" tip
Lowered Suspension
18" Zepter rims
Harlequin paint
Sunroof
Airbrush of a ninja on the bonnet
Underbody neons that change colour
Big Mugen vinyls on the doors
Massive Spoon decal on the rear window
Playboy bunny decal on the fuel cap lid
Full cream / yellow leather interior
Phat Alpine stereo
Custom license plate SXMEUP

[royale]

mmm, will have to find my old sketchs and scan them.
My ideal car looks somewhat like a McLaren F1, with a bit of ferrari influence.
It would have to be RWD or AWD,
Either a sequential twin turbo flat 6 of about 3.0 l
or a flat 8 cylinder of 4.0-4.5 litre.
(Boxer engines just have the most awesome sound)

Something based on a MR2 with a 6cyl turbo boxer would be nice, light, powerful, great handling and braking.

Ive always wondered why subaru havent made a cool looking sports coupe based on a lightened WRX. It would be low(ish) cost and probably the best performance/price package available. (Although they did just get best sports car <$57K with the WRX, so why would they bother).

[DumHed]

except that the rex isn't a sports car...

[royale]

Originally posted by DumHed
except that the rex isn't a sports car...

Agreed, or at least the hatch isnt.

But RACV, NRMA etc think it is.

[DrDivad]

you wan teh Vortex with the EG33DETT in it :D

[royale]

Originally posted by DrDivad
you wan teh Vortex with the EG33DETT in it :D

I said cool looking sports car :D

I always did love the vortex.

[DrDivad]

that thing would've hammered if they made it, oh well

however i thought, if i had craploads of money i'd build my own death machine shaped lots like a vortex out of some tube steel, maybe cram some vortex panesl over it, but ideally fix up some of the horrible ugly bits :) and make it longer and flatter, more lotus like,

mid engine 3.3 twin turbo, AWD, awwwwwwwwwww yeah :D

[Drakin]

Stretch cooper S with gull wing doors :)

[royale]

Originally posted by Drakin
Stretch cooper S

If you stretch it in all directions, it would look just like the new range-rover...:p

[kyuss]

dream car eh?


Edited out picture of Homer's dream car, didn't read first page of thread DOH

[Salted_Chipmunk]

Originally posted by royale
Ive always wondered why subaru havent made a cool looking sports coupe based on a lightened WRX. It would be low(ish) cost and probably the best performance/price package available. (Although they did just get best sports car <$57K with the WRX, so why would they bother).

You mean like this??

http://autoweek.com/images_content/2003_12/1215n-saab.jpg

SAABaru anyone??? The Rex is actually appealing now.

http://autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=06314329

[AlfA]

Enough Said !

[AlfA]

.

[royale]

Originally posted by Salted_Chipmunk
You mean like this??

Umm, no, new saab 9-2 (Impreza chassis, WRX running gear and engine) is not a cool looking sports coupe. :p

Wonder if they wil offer them for <$45K?
Another thing i'm wondering is what will the factory quoted power/torque figures be? I have recently been told by a melbourne tuner that the 03/04 WRX is actually 180kw but is quoted at 168kw so not to steal STi sales.
Change the wheels and nose (and badge) and suddenly it becomes a new car?
http://autoweek.com/images_content/2003_12/1215n-saab.jpg
http://drive.com.au/PHOTOS/PHOTO400/SSCAUS/SUBARU/IMPREZA/2003/5HA-4%20WRX.JPG

This is sort of what I meant.
http://www.subaru-global.com/topics/ms/gen2003/imgs/b11s_front1.jpg

[pleed]

The Pleed Mobile
Engine: Big
Killawotts: Lots
Wheels: Nice
Tyres: New
Doors: Open and Close functions.
Aerial: Coat Hanger
Seats: Functional
Steering Wheel: Factory
Air Bag: Yeah Right
Tow Bar/Ball: :cool:

[excalibur]

The Excalibur mobile:

An XB Falcon 2 Door
351 Windsor
4 on the floor top loader box
9 inch LSD
Huge arse Brembo brakes

Engine/intake/exhaust mods Mods
Unsure as yet wether to put a blower (supercharger) on it or not yet.
If no blower, then high compression heads, If I do put a supercharger on it, it won't be very big, and won't be running that much boost.
Yella Terra Cams
650 cfm carby
Genie headers into a 3 inch twin system with a crosspipe and the least amount of noisesurpressing devices to make it legal at the time (cause it'll be a fair while till I can do it)

Body/interior Mods
The twin scooped bonnet
Sit it on 18 inch 5 spoke CSA rims 10's on the front, 12's on the back.
Black in colour
Windows heavily tinted


That's all I can think of for now, I'm sure I forgotten some stuff, but oh well, shit happpens. IMHO, this will kill most jap imports, and wil have serious balls, even for being a 30 year old car runing an older motor design. I'll also put in power steering and power assist brakes.

If I can legally put a supercharger on it at the time, I am aiming for about 600 horses at the bags.

That is all..

[scathing]

Originally posted by excalibur
The Excalibur mobile:

IMHO, this will kill most jap imports, and wil have serious balls

Probably, in a straight line. Then again, drag racing is the automotive equivalent of the special Olympics.

However, if you're co-ordinated enough to throttle and steer at the same time (I big ask, I realise) then you couldn't even call it a contest.

[Megabyte]

Ahh, friendly little chump aren't ya?

[excalibur]

They are horses for courses....

In Australia wich has mostly long, straight, quite flat highways, big distances between towns and such. The cars designed here, eg, The Excalibur mobile, will come out on top.

In Japan and Europe, very small and little distance between towns, mountainous, very old cities not designed for cars (in europe anyways), so hence very twisty, the small jap and Euro imports will come out on top.

It's also a dream car thread, This is my dream car, and fits what I want it to do, have serious power, tons of get up and go, and will eat Km's like noones buisiness, I realise it won't like turning all that much, that's why I would be modifying steering/suspension setup so it will be a bit more agreeable.

I don't want to get into the V8's Vs. Jap imports argument, so that's my last post on it.

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by excalibur
. The cars designed here, eg, The Excalibur mobile, will come out on top.


There's already one of those, it's a kit car based on a 1930s roadster that originally had an inline 8 cyl engine, At least one version the Excalibur Phaeton however has 2 3.5litre Rover V8s, One engine has a hub attached to the front of its crankshahft, to which the flywheel of the second engine is bolted, effectively turning them both into a single 7litre V16.

http://stillruns.com/rotary/excalibur.jpg

[t101]

My dream car has a chauffeur and someone else to pay for the fuel.

Can you tell I don't drive?

[astro]

Mmmm... Cerbera (http://www.carsales.com.au/pls/carsales/!cs_content.private_vehicle?vehicle_id=91185&current_rec=1&total_rec=2&sort_type=&make_id=219&search_distance=50)

0-100 in 4.2 seconds would be kinda fun :D

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by excalibur
. IMHO, this will kill most jap imports,

Yeah, but the ones that it doesn't kill will still survive with less cubes, use less fuel & last longer between rebuilds on account of less metal fatigue caused by reciprocating mass.

[scathing]

Originally posted by excalibur
They are horses for courses....

In Australia wich has mostly long, straight, quite flat highways, big distances between towns and such. The cars designed here, eg, The Excalibur mobile, will come out on top.

So exactly how useful is a 600 rear wheel horsepower car in a country where the highway speed limit for nearly every state is 110km/hr?

Also, given that you're cruising at 110km/hr in an ancient car with barely adequate sound dampening, questionable high speed stability (wasn't it about the XB era that the 70's supercar scare kicked in?) and high fuel consumption large capacity and relatively inefficient engine driving through fewer cogs than most econoboxes have, how "on top" is the car going to come as a car you'd want to drive for 800km as opposed to something like the newer turbodiesel European sedans that can get there on less than a tank of gas, have near silent interiors that are comfortable and well appointed, and were designed to sit at straightline high speeds?

If you think that a modified XB with a big fuck-off engine and a blower is going to be a better intra-city cruiser than a BMW or Mercedes that was designed to drive on autobahns at 250km/hr, I think you might want to get in contact with Badpauly since he likes playing with masochists.

At any rate, how many people drive regularly between towns on these aforementioned straight flat highways as opposed to driving regularly down the bendier, lower speed limited, stop/start troads in the towns and cities?

[mattmedia]

heaps of them
my tops

Dodge Viper RT/10
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1494

DMC DeLorean
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=112

Porcshe' 996 GT2 (911)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1710

Pontiac GTO
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=913

Any one of these is enough to make you squirm

(note they are in order ascending)

mattmedia

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by mattmedia
heaps of them
my tops

Dodge Viper RT/10
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1494

DMC DeLorean
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=112

Porcshe' 996 GT2 (911)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1710

Pontiac GTO
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=913

Any one of these is enough to make you squirm

(note they are in order ascending)

mattmedia

Where does the design bit come into this?

[scathing]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
Where does the design bit come into this?

That's what I was thinking.

[mattmedia]

Originally posted by That_Bloke
Where does the design bit come into this?

point. sorry.

well then that would be

R/T Charger Shell,
Barra 240 Turbo'ed Engine (this is the one in the XR6ts)(yes this would take ALOT OF WORK).
Brembo Cross Drilled Brakes + Callipers
15" Jelly Bean Mags + some fat rear tyres to match it
Eletric Wired Brakes, (like the ones on the RX8)
Sequial Shift Gear box (SMTII? like the ones in the M3CSL)
Drive Train from the M3CSL (wouldnt know what its called, i think its made out of carbon fibre or something like that)
Stock R/T charger Seats and dash bar the Infoscreen which will be just be RPM tacho, Speedometer, Turbo Pressure, and all the other usual features.
and then thats as far as my car knowledge goes.


can i ask a few questions. whats the LSD and how does it affect driving. and the diff is really just what converts the power from the drive train to the axle right?

[excalibur]

Originally posted by mattmedia
heaps of them
my tops

Dodge Viper RT/10
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1494

DMC DeLorean
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=112

Porcshe' 996 GT2 (911)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1710

Pontiac GTO
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=913

Any one of these is enough to make you squirm

(note they are in order ascending)

mattmedia

this is just me being stupid, but how about some sort of weird mix, ie. The motor of the viper, in ther body of the delorean, with the suspension and steering of the porsche, and the gearbox and interior of the GTO.?? I didn't chose wich parts from what for any particular reason, just did it to be weird...

[mattmedia]

Stuff the motor from the Dodge. the GT2 motor is heaps more powerful and alot more lively.

out of that. it would be either the body of the GTO or the DeLorean, the Bottom end + Engine from the Porsche and the Dodge Interior

mattmedia

[scathing]

Originally posted by mattmedia
can i ask a few questions. whats the LSD and how does it affect driving. and the diff is really just what converts the power from the drive train to the axle right?

LSD stands for limited slip differential.

Your differential is the last coupling to your axles from your engine, which makes it a part of your drivetrain. A good read would be on How Stuff Works (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm), which also covers limited slip diffs. It doesn't just convert power

In a nutshell, a limited slip diff detects difference in wheel speed between your two drive wheels, and then attempts to minimise this difference.

In an open differential, power follows the path of least resistance. So if you get one wheel spinning, all the power from your engine gets sent to that wheel.

In a limited slip differential, as one wheel spins faster, the diff works to transfer power to the other wheel instead.

So in an open differential, if one tyre starts to break traction, it gets fed more and more power and so its more likely to wheelspin. In a LSD, it attempts to feed more power to the wheel with more grip, and so its less likely to wheelspin. So you make better use of both tyres, so you increase your car's total available grip.

So why don't all cars run LSD's that are wound up tight? More grip is always good, right? Aside from the cost (both in terms of price of the device itself, and tuning the LSD), like any kind of performance enhancement there are downsides, some of which make it unsuitable for your average driver.

The higher the limiting effect of the differential, the less the driving end of the car wants to turn. In an open diff, the outside wheel of the car is allowed to spin faster than the inside, which is what wheels want to do since the inside track covers less distance than the outside one.

When you make both wheels spin at the same speed, the inside wheel can no longer spin slower around a bend, so the drive end of the car wants to push. In a front wheel drive car, that means the car is more reluctant to turn, and understeer is increased. In a rear drive car, where the front can turn in but the back wants to continue in the straight-ahead, it means oversteer is increased.

If manufacturers have to choose between understeer and oversteer, they'll choose the former (although they'd prefer the car to be neutral). Its safer for your average Joe. That's why nearly all cars currently on the market are set up quite understeery.

Your other issue is what happens if your exceed the limits. In an open diff, one wheel goes nuts but the other wheel gets little to no drive, which means it maintains traction. So lighting up the inside will still cause you to slide, but you won't have a total loss of grip from that end of the car, which should make it gentler and more progressive.

In an LSD, you maintain grip until you try forcing too much power for both tyres to handle, and then both of them break loose. So not only are you losing traction at a higher pace, its also a lot more savage as neither tyre is spinning at the same pace as the road speed at this point.


These are all top-level principles, of course. In practice its not as black and white. You can tune the limited slip differential's characteristics, to make its effect stronger or weaker, as well as setting up the rest of the car to compensate for the diff.

[scathing]

As for the net effect of driving with a LSD:

You will find that you get more grip, both on launches and around corners, as long as you keep the car from wheelspinning.

In a rear driving car, you'll find the tail a lot more lively. Technically turn-in is not improved (as you haven't changed the front end) but the tail will want to kick out more. This makes the car feel a lot more direct and nicer, but it does make the car twitchier.

In a front driving car, it'll want to understeer more, but you're less likely to break traction. So in a powerful FWD car, the LSD's understeer effect should be less than the understeering you get from lighting up the tyres (which means handling has improved when you're hammering it, but at low speeds the car won't turn as nicely).


If you do exceed the limits around a corner, you'll be going faster and the slide won't be as progressive. Catching it and bringing it back will therefore be more difficult.

[c:\>_]

Ford Escort Cosworth (Big of Wing, dodgy interior)
Blue or White in colour
Group A Head
Hardened internals (WRC Parts bin)
Chillier than standard Intercooler
Less willing wastegate than standard
Remove all interior save x2 front seats and dash
Install rollcage
Different brain, thinking Wolf3D or some other manageable chip. APEXi (?)
Turn up the boost, possible x2 Turbo (one smaller than other for different stages of rpm)
Standard external body
Larger exhaust from engine, but no drainpipe hanging at rear of car
Possible spacers to increase track of car.

hmmm may add/revise to this as I go......

[scathing]

* Red Mazda RX8 (http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1_rx8.asp?articleZoneID=2191)

* Buddy Club (http://www.first-inc.co.jp/buddyclub/aero/rx8_img/f_rx8.html) bodykit

* 18" silver 5Zigen Hyper 5ZR (http://www.5zigenusa.com/images/wheels/h5zr18_chrome_l.jpg) rims

* Top spec Tomei SR20DET crate engine (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e020_kisyubetsu_sr20det.html). 500hp with a full warranty, and it has low-end torque.

* Full HKS exhaust with a Carbon-Ti rear silencer (http://www.hksusa.com/images/?id=2061)

* Not sure what kind of intercooler, but it'll be big. Either HKS or A'Pexi.

* MoTec M800 (http://www.motec.com.au/m800.htm) engine management with Advanced Dash Logger (http://www.motec.com.au/adl.htm)

* Tein Type HA coil overs (http://www.tein.com/hadamp.html) with Electronic Damping Force Controller (http://www.tein.com/edfc.html) and Cusco swaybars

* Cusco 1.5 way LSD (http://www.cusco.co.jp/english/e_lsd.html)

* Cusco strut braces front and rear

* OS Giken triple plate ceramic clutch

* Carbon drive shaft

* Nismo or Hollinger gearbox

* Carbon brakes from a Porsche 996 GT2.

* Falken RS-V04 (http://www.falken.co.jp/tirecatalog/race/index.html) or Yokohama A048 (http://www.yokohamatire.com/TireFeatures.asp?TireID=60) tyres

* As many carbon fibre body panels as ADRs will permit, and the rest in aluminium.

That should cover the exterior and performance mods.

Inside:

* Recaro (http://www.recaro-nao.com/) Topline seat driver's side, sportline seat passenger side. Retrimmed in red with black bolsters. Provision for 4 point harnesses (though the lap sash belts will be kept)

* If I can get a rollcage in there without contravening ADRs for road cars, I will.

* Defi gauges (http://www.defi-shop.com/) (BF range, with the HUD)

* Momo (www.momo.it) Shadow gear knob and Pit Stop Carbon handbrake.

* MoTeC steering wheel (http://www.motec.com/products/steering.htm)

* Full Alpine F#1 Status (http://www.alpine.com.au/) ICE with satellite navigation. Motorised monitor in the dash, and LCDs built into the backs of the front seats. DVD playback with full surround sound in all four seats (so splits between the front and rear passengers for the people sitting in the back).


I think that about covers it. There might be other things I'll want to do too, but that's all I can think of for now.

[royale]

Originally posted by scathing
* Red Mazda RX8 (http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone1_rx8.asp?articleZoneID=2191)

* Top spec Tomei SR20DET crate engine (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e020_kisyubetsu_sr20det.html). 500hp with a full warranty, and it has low-end torque.


Out of curiosity, why not work the rotor?

[Benwah]

Originally posted by royale
Out of curiosity, why not work the rotor?

heh, the quote you posted gave you the answer mate ;)

"Tomei SR20DET crate engine. 500hp with a full warranty, and it has low-end torque."

So firstly, the nissan engine modified by Tomei comes with a full warranty.

Secondly, a rotor worked to generate this much power would be peaky AS and hense, no low down torque.

So, in summery, working the rotor = no warranty and no low down torque.

Right Scathing?

[durus]

That was my question too.
Why not Port and Turbo the Renesis?

Personally I like the Front Nose (http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic91/12-1.JPG) on the MAZDA SPEED body kit.

[mattmedia]

Originally posted by royale
Out of curiosity, why not work the rotor?

i think its because the rotor from the RX8 is fairly gutless and the same amount of money to spend on a better rotor could go to the sr20det, which would be better to drive, as sr20's have a lot of lovely torque and rotors have fairly small amounts of it (people say they do have torque its just spread over the entire range, which it pretty much is).

for racing a 20btt would own a sr20det, but the sr20det would drive much nicer (you would actually get sometime to change gears )

mattmedia

ps.
scathing, thanks.

[royale]

Originally posted by mattmedia
i think its because the rotor from the RX8 is fairly gutless

177 kW @ 8,200 rpm and 211 Nm @ 5500 rpm in standard form is far from gutless (although the torque figure is not very flash, the delivery and high redline make up for it)
You can get the previous model to output 650+Hp so there is probably no reason why the new gen Renesis couldnt do something similar.

I dont really care- im not one of those rotary freaks ;) it just seems a little strange that if you are going to spend than much money, you would choose a SR20DET over any other offering or spend the same on the rotary.
/shugs
horses for courses I guess.

[mattmedia]

Originally posted by royale
177 kW @ 8,200 rpm and 211 Nm @ 5500 rpm

sure the kw is nice but that torque figuire, is shocking. hence the gutlessness. the 20b (ie the afaik newest rx7 motor is a nice peice of machinery but they honestly need some time of forced induction to make them worth it).

RPM is nice for dashes but when it comes to fun torque is where its at..

mattmedia

[Benwah]

Originally posted by royale
horses for courses I guess.

nice pun!

[DumHed]

seriously, have a drive of a nicely setup SR20.
In real world conditions it's probably the best 4 cylinder engine in the world.
It has a really fat midrange, with good top end power, amazing toughness, and excellent modification potential.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by DumHed
seriously, have a drive of a nicely setup SR20.
In real world conditions it's probably the best 4 cylinder engine in the world.
It has a really fat midrange, with good top end power, amazing toughness, and excellent modification potential.

sounds lovely, RB26 is where it's for me.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by Benwah
sounds lovely, RB26 is where it's at for me bruv... one day, one day....

[DumHed]

nah the RB26 is too big and heavy for my liking, with too little performance for the money.

That said, I wouldn't want the SR20 in a big heavy car either.

I like my cars light and responsive, with an engine to match.

[scathing]

Originally posted by royale
Out of curiosity, why not work the rotor?

I like this thing called torque. You may have heard of it; its what your engine finally produces when the 14-odd PSI of boost belatedly kicks in.

I really like this torque thing and, like oral sex, I like getting it everywhere. If I wanted to buy something that had to be revved like a motorcycle to go anywhere, I'd turbocharge a Hayabusa.

The other thing I like is fuel economy if I'm not going for a hoon. If I drive the engine off boost, it'll be slightly less fuel efficient than any other non-turbo 2.0L engine, but still miles ahead of the scrotary. While still pulling along the same, if not better from low RPM.

Just because the internals are warrantied to run 500ps doesn't mean I will run that much power. I'd tune the engine to be as responsive and as torquey across the entire rev range as possible, without overwhelming the chassis and suspension tune. If that means I only make around 400ps at the flywheel, then so be it.


A friend has an SR20DET with the Tomei bottom end, and he'll probably make around 330ps at the rear tyres (which would be just under 400ps at the flywheel). We'll find out when its run in how well the car pulls across the board, before I decide if 400ps isn't enough for the engine to be making while still retaining the torque characteristics I want. :)


EDIT: Grammar, and make that 14psi of boost for a stock WRX :rolleyes:

[royale]

Originally posted by DumHed
seriously, have a drive of a nicely setup SR20.
In real world conditions it's probably the best 4 cylinder engine in the world.

You know I wont agree with you there, not while the EJ20T exists...and now there is the EJ25T, so you know what you can do with your SR20 :p

[Benwah]

Originally posted by DumHed
nah the RB26 is too big and heavy for my liking, with too little performance for the money.

That said, I wouldn't want the SR20 in a big heavy car either.

I like my cars light and responsive, with an engine to match.

noice.

I like my cars heavy and boosty.... I've decided.... and yet I drive a mini cooper!

[Benwah]

Originally posted by royale
You know I wont agree with you there, not while the EJ20T exists...and now there is the EJ25T, so you know what you can do with your SR20 :p

Anyone for 4AGZE? actually, nah... getting too old now, going the way of the FJ20 ;)

[scathing]

Originally posted by royale
177 kW @ 8,200 rpm and 211 Nm @ 5500 rpm in standard form is far from gutless (although the torque figure is not very flash, the delivery and high redline make up for it)

......not for me, they don't.

The vibration free delivery is nice, but the high redline is of marginal use. On the street, overtaking means you have to sit there rowing through the gears to get into your power band, whereas piston engined cars have already left.

Of course, making more power up high in the rev range means you can chase others down easier, so you can loser flyby them.

Joy.

Or, on country roads, when you're not going at ten tenths and so you have to slow down a bit more than the car will handle, it either means you have a slower entry speed because you need to drop down an extra gear, you can try throttling and waiting for the car to build revs again while its fallen into its torque hole, or you can try changing gear mid corner (potentially risky as it unsettles the car, while people with more torque can start getting on the power at the point while you're hunting for another gear).

[Benwah]

Originally posted by scathing


Of course, making more power up high in the rev range means you can chase others down easier, so you can loser flyby them.



and then get booked for doing 150 in an 80 ;)

Originally posted by scathing
people with more torque can start getting on the power at the point while you're hunting for another gear. [/B]

3rd gear sweeper action.

[DumHed]

nah the 4AGs are to old, and too Toyota (revvy enough, but no midrange)
Have a look at the EJ20 internals compared to an SR20 one day. The SR is a stupidly tough engine, and the head design gives excellent flow as well as torque due to the very nice combustion chamber and port setup.
Turbos are not really suited to boxer engines (at least not 4 cylinder ones) because to get an efficient exhaust path you need two turbos, which don't get enough pulses to spool up nice and early.
Running a single turbo on a boxer requires a small turbo to spool up in a semi reasonable time due to the really nasty plumbing required, which them limits the top end flow too much.
The EF20T always seems to have nothing down low, a bit old school turbo punch in the middle, and nothing up top. An SR20DET acts like an n/a engine of much larger capacity that happens to be willing to rev.

Also there's the modification results from each engine. A full CES Racing exhaust and pod filter has been dyno proven countless times to give a 45-50rwkw power increase on an S15 with no other mods.
An EJ20 usually gets 25-30rwkw from the same setup.
When asked why, Trevor from CES said "Subaru just don't make engines like Nissan do" :)

[scathing]

/me waits to see who wants to step up to the plate and argue about engines with Dumhed.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by DumHed
nah the 4AGs are to old, and too Toyota (revvy enough, but no midrange)

I SAID that mate! heh, a good engine at the time, direct competition I guess Nissan wise would be the good old CA18

I'm SOLD on the nissan motors SR20, and RB26, subbies have there place for sure, but conbined with the details you have mentioned and the heavy four wheel drive, drive train they will always be a road car first and race car second.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by scathing
/me waits to see who wants to step up to the plate and argue about engines with Dumhed.

not ME y'all, maximum respect to the one called DumHED he be knowin' his shit!

[DumHed]

engine characteristics are a personal preference kind of thing, but I haven't been shown any reason at all to chuck my SR20 :)

Even the n/a ones are a really good engine.
It was funny how many people went for a ride in my old n/a Silvia and said "hey this goes ok for a 2L turbo"

I'd say "turbo??? I haven't even changed the air filter!"

[scathing]

Originally posted by Benwah
yet I drive a mini cooper!

Dude, get one of these (http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/mini_twin_rl.htm) Minis.

Personally, though, as a weekend car this (http://www.zcars.org.uk/z100wr.htm) Lotus 7 imitation gives me all kinds of wood.

[scathing]

Originally posted by DumHed
engine characteristics are a personal preference kind of thing

True. Some people like the old-school turbo power delivery, where the power cuts in late and violently.

It also gives you something to blame for your two single vehicle accidents. ;)

[Benwah]

Originally posted by scathing
Dude, get one of these (http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/mini_twin_rl.htm) Minis.

DAMN! I've seen some crazy conversions on minis in my time, Rover V8's (driver sits in the back) 13B Turbos (racecars only)

Originally posted by scathing
Personally, though, as a weekend car this (http://www.zcars.org.uk/z100wr.htm) Lotus 7 imitation gives me all kinds of wood.

It's all about the ariel atom for me mate, I even have a tattoo of an atom (not 'cos of the car, but it would be a nice talking point if it WAS!)

http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/frames.htm

[Benwah]

Originally posted by scathing
True. Some people like the old-school turbo power delivery, where the power cuts in late and violently.


laaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggg, RB26 with a big 'un on the side....

[scathing]

Yeah, I like the Atom too. As a driver's car, it'd be more enjoyable and rewarding than the Tiger, but just not as fast.

The series 2 with the 200ps Type-R engine in it is fucking sweet.

Ever since it came out and I read about it in a few car mags, I was having rants about how stupid they were for putting in that POS K-series boat anchor in it, and how it would run so much better with a VTEC engine.

Me, being a Nissan man, would have preferred to see an SR20VE put into it but meh, its better than the Rover engine. Funnily enough, Tomei also offers a crate SR20DE (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e038_sr20de.html) that makes 265ps. I'm assuming that tuning the VE, which makes 200ps stock (as opposed to the 150ps for the SR20DE) would yield even bigger numbers. And, if you have a look at their dyno charts, the torque curve is relatively flat (even in the Phase 3).

I wouldn't go turbo in that car, purely to keep the throttle response. That car's more about driving enjoyment than going quickly (though it does both). There is one which has front and rear wings like an open wheeler (http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/2001/010302-MMshow.html). If it's road legal to have them, I want it with the Type-R engine.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by scathing
Yeah, I like the Atom too. As a driver's car, it'd be more enjoyable and rewarding than the Tiger, but just not as fast.

The series 2 with the 200ps Type-R engine in it is fucking sweet.

Ever since it came out and I read about it in a few car mags, I was having rants about how stupid they were for putting in that POS K-series boat anchor in it, and how it would run so much better with a VTEC engine.

Me, being a Nissan man, would have preferred to see an SR20VE put into it but meh, its better than the Rover engine. Funnily enough, Tomei also offers a crate SR20DE (http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e038_sr20de.html) that makes 265ps. I'm assuming that tuning the VE, which makes 200ps stock (as opposed to the 150ps for the SR20DE) would yield even bigger numbers. And, if you have a look at their dyno charts, the torque curve is relatively flat (even in the Phase 3).

I wouldn't go turbo in that car, purely to keep the throttle response. That car's more about driving enjoyment than going quickly (though it does both). There is one which has front and rear wings like an open wheeler (http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/2001/010302-MMshow.html). If it's road legal to have them, I want it with the Type-R engine.

Agreed, the K-Series was a oddball choice, I guess to get everyone switched on they had to cut the price, and being british (*Benwah stands up and starts singing*) they probably had to just a 'Rover' engine to get a grant or something wierd like that.

Honda VTEC action, that thing would go like a MUVVA!

I'm a light car fan wishing I was a big car man! RB26 be gone!

[V_Max]

As sacreligious as it is to toy with such perfection...

F40LM (standard F40 headlights)
360 N-GT motor
360 N-GT gearbox
Done.

Failing that, a 512BBi with four-valve heads and less prehistoric injection/engine management, and more up-to-date suspension and tyres.

And for racing (assuming we're sticking to closed-wheel vaguely road style cars here), a 412T2 with a widened two-seat tub, P4 body and full ground effects undertray.

[V_Max]

Originally posted by DumHed
nah the 4AGs are to old, and too Toyota (revvy enough, but no midrange)4AGZEs have decent midrange (IMO), but there are better things. Having said that, if you stick one with a bit of extra boost into the middle of a car, you won't be beaten into off the lights into a merged lane by much short of a motorbike ;)

[royale]

Originally posted by scathing
/me waits to see who wants to step up to the plate and argue about engines with Dumhed.
Dumhed knows his shit (and obviously knows crap loads more than me), but Im not going to let his personal bias towards Nissan go unanswered :)


Originally posted by DumHed
Have a look at the EJ20 internals compared to an SR20 one day. The SR is a stupidly tough engine
No argument there, Nissan/Datsun have been making bullet-proof inline 4s for decades. The EJ20 is an exceptionally tough engine too.

Originally posted by DumHed
and the head design gives excellent flow as well as torque due to the very nice combustion chamber and port setup.
Stock EJ20s produce more power and torque than SR20s. (This means nothing more than Subaru is willing to tune to higher spec from factory).

Originally posted by DumHed
Turbos are not really suited to boxer engines (at least not 4 cylinder ones) because to get an efficient exhaust path you need two turbos, which don't get enough pulses to spool up nice and early..
There is a technically sound argument that flat 4s will have bigger lag due to the manifold length but in reality it makes SFA difference. You simply need to look at the professionally set up single turbo race rally and drag cars to show what can be (and has been) done.

Originally posted by DumHed
The EF20T always seems to have nothing down low, a bit old school turbo punch in the middle, and nothing up top. An SR20DET acts like an n/a engine of much larger capacity that happens to be willing to rev.

This seems to be much more to do with the factory turbo and engineering for high rpm/kw, rather than the inherent configuration of the engine. Look at the specs for the current Liberty GT, its EJ20 uses a twin scroll turbo (IHI VF36 or 37 I think) to produce 180Kw at 6400rpm, and 310Nm at 2400rpm. That nice top and bottom.
As for having nothing down low, the current series EJ20/EJ25 engines have utilised AVACS to great effect to minimise this characteristic.

Originally posted by DumHed
Also there's the modification results from each engine. A full CES Racing exhaust and pod filter has been dyno proven countless times to give a 45-50rwkw power increase on an S15 with no other mods.
An EJ20 usually gets 25-30rwkw from the same setup.
Bear in mind that the EJ20 starts off with more power and torque, and with these modifications applied both engines end up about the same. This just indicates that the EJ20 comes out of the factory at a higher state of tune.


Originally posted by DumHed
When asked why, Trevor from CES said "Subaru just don't make engines like Nissan do" :)
No, Subaru make engines like Porsche do :p (and VW :()

[DumHed]

I'm not talking about the engine's overall design or configuration, I'm talking about the efficiency of the engine's flow characteristics.
Also, VW don't make comparable engines now, and the better Porsche engines were sixes, with very different port and head designs to the Subaru... (did they make a turbo flat 4?)

Don't forget that the SR20s we see here are very de-tuned. Comparisons to the Jap versions are more realistic, where the SR20 makes 184kw in stock form, running much lower boost than the EJ20, with much nicer response.

The power gains from the basic mods on an SR20 are still achieved in the same "low" state of tune the engine is in from the factory. The difference is that the internal design of the engine is more efficient, and the factory turbo is better matched to the engine.
Also the standard engine management system is very adaptable, meaning that fairly major mods can be done before anything needs to be done with the tuning to keep the engine safe.

I've actually always liked Subaru engines, but they're not suited to a real sports car. This isn't really a problem since Subaru don't make one.
Having driven many cars, and compared many engines, I've come to the conclusion that the best combination of characteristics for me is found in the SR20. It's also undeniably one of the toughest built engines around, with massive potential for the money.
My one's making about 230kw at the flywheel, at a massive 6psi of boost.
It spools up from about 2000rpm, and boost response is as fast as you can move your foot.

[Benwah]

DumHed and Royale, thanks for posting this stuff! I found it very interesting!

[royale]

The porsche/VW reference was a gag, being that the porsche flat 4s were VW, and as far as I know were only put in the 356 and 914, neither of which were offered in turbo charged form.

Originally posted by DumHed
Dont forget that the SR20s we see here are very de-tuned. Comparisons to the Jap versions are more realistic, where the SR20 makes 184kw in stock form, running much lower boost than the EJ20, with much nicer response.

The EJ20s that we get here are also de-tuned, and funnily enough the Japanese model also produces 184Kw (and 333Nm @ 3600 rpm). I wouldnt have a clue what boost either are running, but I would guess the EJ would be around the 15psi. As for response, I am not in a position to comment- I havent driven a jap spec s15 nor a jap spec WRX, so am unable to comment on the comparative response differences.


Originally posted by DumHed
The power gains from the basic mods on an SR20 are still achieved in the same "low" state of tune the engine is in from the factory. The difference is that the internal design of the engine is more efficient, and the factory turbo is better matched to the engine. Also the standard engine management system is very adaptable, meaning that fairly major mods can be done before anything needs to be done with the tuning to keep the engine safe.
As are the gains on the EJ20. The point was that doing the same work (exhaust and pod) on the factory engine results in very similar power outputs, the extra gain the SR20 gets is due to the fact that it comes from the factory with less power. I.e. the flow is more restrictive on the factory SR20 than on the factory EJ20, so when the flow restrictions are removed both engines produce similar figures.
There is no doubt that the factory ECU is better in the SR20, the current EJ ECU learns about mods and counters them :(. Any serious performance mods on a WRX need to include a ECU upgrade or at least piggyback.
As for the factory turbo being better matched to the engine, that is open to interpretation. If you like less power, less (but lower in the rpm) torque peak, and less lag, choose the SR, if you want more power and torque go the EJ20, if you want the best of both worlds, try an different turbo on either engine.

Originally posted by DumHed
Ive actually always liked Subaru engines, but theyre not suited to a real sports car.
Actually the weight characteristics of a flat engine are much better suited to a sports car than an inline as the flat engine allows for a lower centre of gravity. Also the inherit balance of the flat configuration allows for less moving mass in the engine (shorter crank, no balancer shafts, lighter flywheel) although overall engine weight is the same or possibly higher that the inline due to the use of 2 blocks.

Originally posted by DumHed
My ones making about 230kw at the flywheel, at a massive 6psi of boost.
It spools up from about 2000rpm, and boost response is as fast as you can move your foot.
Thats some shit hot figures.

I guess my point is that in terms of output, there is nothing you can do with a SR20 that you cant do with an EJ20, and vice-versa. Given the improved weight distribution and therefore handling characteristics available when choosing a flat configuration, there seems to be only one choice

[DumHed]

my issue with the weight (mass) isn't the height of it (which flat engines are certainly better for - although subaru mount it pretty high up), but the fact that the engine is still pretty heavy - and has to sit completely in front of the axle line, which is never good for responsive handling.

In the Silvias the engine sits quite far back, with the axle line forward of the middle of the engine.
The standard rear wheel drive setup also distributes more of the weight further back along the car, with the longer gearbox, etc.

[royale]

Originally posted by DumHed
my issue with the weight (mass) isn't the height of it (which flat engines are certainly better for - although subaru mount it pretty high up), but the fact that the engine is still pretty heavy - and has to sit completely in front of the axle line, which is never good for responsive handling.

In the Silvias the engine sits quite far back, with the axle line forward of the middle of the engine.
The standard rear wheel drive setup also distributes more of the weight further back along the car, with the longer gearbox, etc.

We are starting to go from engine comparisons to specific vehicle comparison.
I’m not really interested in doing the Silvia v’s WRX thing again, different vehicles, different purposes (but surprisingly similar on the track).
At least we can agree that both engines are highly capable but each has its own pros and cons.

BTW, last I heard was that the complete (no gb) EJ20T was about 250lb (~120Kg), whats that like compared to the SR20?

[DumHed]

not sure about that. I'll see if I can measure Sambo's one before I put it in the car.

I always wanted to use a Subaru engine in a race car (for weight distribution reasons), until I discovered the SR.
Basically once all the aspects are looked at I can't see a worthy competitor. The closest would be the Toyota 3SGTE, but that just doesn't have the same drivability factor.

I know someone with an S15 making 227rwkw on stock internals and turbo (does have cams, etc), and I know of a few making over 250rwkw on stock internals with a larger turbo.

JMS are claiming 363rwkw on their current drift car, with stock internals too (running some kind of rocket fuel though :)

[scathing]

Originally posted by royale
Stock EJ20s produce more power and torque than SR20s. (This means nothing more than Subaru is willing to tune to higher spec from factory).

There is a technically sound argument that flat 4s will have bigger lag due to the manifold length but in reality it makes SFA difference.

As for having nothing down low, the current series EJ20/EJ25 engines have utilised AVACS to great effect to minimise this characteristic.

Bear in mind that the EJ20 starts off with more power and torque, and with these modifications applied both engines end up about the same.

Considering the S15 SR20DET ran 7-8psi, as opposed to the current generations (MY99 onwards, I believe) of EJ20T in the WRX running around 14psi, you'd certainly hope that it makes more power.

However, the EJ20's 168kW / 300Nm hardly seems like that much more, considering its stuffing an extra half an atmosphere (or 33% more oxygen per unit volume) to the SR20's 147kW / 265Nm.

I've driven a factory S15, and a factory MY03 WRX, both slowly and wrung the tits out of them. There's sour fuck-all difference in their power delivery. The factory S15 feels like a NA engine that just runs slightly aggressive cams. The power delivery swells as revs rise. The WRX drives like an old school turbo. Gutless until you wind it out, then comes the turbo rush. Its more like a crashing wave.

If they've made efforts to minimise the effect with AVACS, I'd hate to have driven an EJ20T before they implemented this. I'm also quite afraid of how bad the STi is going to be if they say its worse than the WRX's.

You're telling me that drag cars aren't laggy? Cars that run big turbos with massive boost and aggressive cams, and exhausts you could crawl through, that work without blow off valves. Riiiight.....

And comparing a top-end rally / race car is hardly fair, considering they run street illegal anti-lag kits which mask response deficiencies in turbocharging in general, let alone engine design issues.

As for the mods balancing out, that's not true either. The SR20 makes bigger gains with the same sized exhaust from the same company (so it closes the gap on the EJ20's power figures) but people haven't fiddled around with the boost to make the amount of oxygen per unit volume the same. The SR20 is still going to be using around 2/3 of the amount of air (and, thus, fuel since the ECU should be aiming for the stoichiometric 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio for a perfect burn) to make its near-equal power.

You may as well say the EJ20T is better because it makes more power at its peak than the SR20DET does half way through its rev range. It'll be just as valid.

However, same power figures using less fuel sounds like better design on one end to me.

The EJ20T doesn't come out in a higher state of tune. It just comes out running more boost, which is the turbo version of increasing displacement.

If you were to tell people that the old 5L cast iron V8 out of a old Commodore is as good as the 3.0L boxer 6 engine from the Outback because they make slightly more power, people would think you were crazy. But, in turbo terms, that's what you're trying to tell us about the EJ20T.

[royale]

Originally posted by scathing
Considering the S15 SR20DET ran 7-8psi, as opposed to the current generations (MY99 onwards, I believe) of EJ20T in the WRX running around 14psi, you'd certainly hope that it makes more power. However, the EJ20's 168kW / 300Nm hardly seems like that much more, considering its stuffing an extra half an atmosphere (or 33% more oxygen per unit volume) to the SR20's 147kW / 265Nm.

from Autospeed (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1175/article.html)
"SR20DET ...... standard 0.85 Bar (12.5 psi) boost pressure"
You will also find that rather than the 'quoted' 168Kw, the EJ20T fitted to the 03/04 WRX is closer to 180-185kw
Dyno 1 (http://210.15.220.239/html/subaru/temp/my03_1.jpg)
Dyno 2 (http://210.15.220.239/html/subaru/temp/my03_2.jpg)
So rather than this super shit hot incredible machine, we find that the SR20DET from a S15 runs 1.5PSI less boost, and produces about 35-40kw less.
The rest of your post is either irrelevant or has been dealt with, so if you are going to come out all belligerent and cocky you might want to make sure you are fair, reasonable or at least accurate. :cool:

/edit
I will also mention that when the EJ20T is producing its 168+Kw it is running about 9PSI boost i.e. boost peaks at around 14PSI at around 3600rpm (coinciding with that 300Nm peak torque) then drops off to 9PSI by 7000rpm

[DumHed]

a word of advice: never, ever trust Autospeed for technical information :)

Also, it'd be nice to have dyno charts on a more industry standard dyno, otherwise the figures are meaningless.

My figures are on a Dyno Dynamics dyno running the current version software, in shootout mode - which compensates for environmental differences so that readings between dynos are comparable.

[royale]

Just for interests sake, you can 'calculate' the power of your turbo-charged car using
Link (http://www.turbofast.com.au/tfcalc.html)

Very interesting...

and if you need to do some metric-imprial calcs try
Link (http://www.onlineconversion.com/)

....it must be wildly inaccurate, even with 100% engine VE, compressor efficiency and intercooler effciency a 2litre 4 cyl running 6psi will only produce 254hp (190Kw) @ 7000rpm

[fuckitgolucky]

Guys, you can't compare runs from cars on different dynos. You'll find that both are quite similar in terms of making power. The SR20 is a stonger engine. You can boost it to around 270kw at enjin (or 200 at wheels) quite safely and still drive it daily. You can't with EJ20. That doesn't matter unless you use the power. Nothing stopping you from openning up and strengthening the EJ.

As nice as my SR20 is, it doesn't match the smile on my face i get from my 12 second 13B turbo series 2 rx7. It had standard turbo and boost (raised lightly by air filter and 2.5 inch press bent exhaust) and microtech injection. I have dyno sheets for 216hp at wheels .. or about 216kw at enjin. It's just an amazingly fun car to drive. Even tho my 180sx is probably more powerful, faster and louder.

So power went from 135 - 216kw from an exhaust, air filter and computer.

I'm doing a dyno run on my SR20 tomorrow and 15-16 psi. Tell you how it goes.

[excalibur]

Originally posted by scathing
Dude, get one of these (http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/mini_twin_rl.htm) Minis.


A mate has been trying to get a similar project going. He was going to try for 2 ducatti 996 motors, but decided not to for the cost. After I told him anout the Kawasaki ZX 12R (the 2003 - 04 models are faster than a Hyabusa, though the Hyabusa has it in the accelleration) he seemed interested in that one. But after the specs of the ZX10R where released, it seems more likely he will use those. The whole ZX - 10R only weighs 170 kg, but puts out 184 horses. I have no idea what the motor alone weighs, but it would be four fifths of fuck all.

Another one that is underway now, is a Cortina, that will have 4 ducatti carbs on it, I asked why, and he said "cause I can....." with a big grin on his face.