Holden Vs. Ford

[Necron]

I think that this is the ultimate question in Australian Automotive history.

What is everyones feelings on this topic???

Personally I love ALL holdens, but the VL commodore has a place close to my heart... Nothing is as good as a VL GP A Walkinshaw.

Ford or Holden/ Falcon or Commodore?

PS. anyone who is going to post anything other than a v6 or v8 in here such as a Lancer or Pulsar.... Expect a harsh comeback as I take offence to these SHITBOXES and revere them as being lower than the scum scraped off of my boot!

[C0V3R]

I think both brands had good and bad models and or periods of history.

The old Mustangs, XW-XY, XA-XC, and the BA are IMO fords best. While I'm not so familiar with holdens, the HG Monaros, the VL (esp calais/turbo), VN, VT,VX were all pretty good. The biggest problem for the monaro IMO is that the comodores detract from its originality somewhat.

[Necron]

yeah, the XY GTHO Falcon was mad, but the HZ GTS coupe was the SHIT...... I am currently working on a Walky rebuild.

Also Love the new FPV GT falcon.... good for a new Ford.... But Holdens are the Shiit, with the New crewman and the new Spanker Coupe LE monaro HSV!!!... Bringing the Muscle back to OZ

[prong]

hmmmm what about a toyota mr2? is that scum?

:D personally i dont really care about either
the look has never been great for any of them
though the new monaro is getting there but it is still a barge
though this is just my personal opinion

[108]

If you want looks, take a gander at the HSV Clubsport R8. I saw one on the street a few weeks ago and I drooled all over my steering wheel.

PDF: http://www.hsv.com.au/cars/vy2/y2brochure.pdf

[oracle]

Hmm... This thread needs more poll.

[hooptieride]

There was a shiny new FPV GT in my local shopping center 'sarvo part of one of those raffle's they have every month or so.

The bonnet bulge is incredibly sexual, its definantely one sexy looking car.

[Pirate]

My brother is mad for this holden vs. ford stuff. I personally like fords especially the xa to ac coupes. I dont really like any other of ford stuff until the EF and on wards. I have an AUII-XR6 at the moment and I love it. Its all black, has the premium sound back, sunroof and big sexy zgeek sticker on the back.

The reason i like fords is their interiours seem nicer and more space-shippy.

[Cassa]

s14a :D

[DumHed]

if it had to be either ford or holden for me I'd probably ride a push bike.
Close second to the bike would be ford - just for better build quality and less stupid owners.

Neither ford or holden make a car that I'm even remotely interested in driving though.

[Cassa]

/me giggles at the mental image of DumHed riding a pushbike

[nosedog]

Holden Kingswood 1-tonner, no load, bald tyres, in the rain. More arse-out than a fat chick in hipsters.

[hazza]

I used to like Holdens better, i go for them in races n stuff, but i fucking Love the XR6 Turbo, best idea ford ever got.

Utes i reckon holdens are better and they got a better "special vehicle" thing going on.

Older fords > * though.

[plext]

Fords definately. Look at the model line up:

DB9
XK-R
Vantage V8

;)

[kré]

if you wanna play that game;


holden

let's look at the line up

corvette c5r

NEXT!

[plext]

Bah, I'll see your corvette and raise you a new GT40.

[Rod]

I was a one eyed holden boyh in my younger days, but I like either nowadays...
A few favs:

HT Monaro
XA Falcon
HZ GTS
Brockies 05 Commodores
LJ GTR XUI
Sandman PV
XD Falcon
VR Commodore

The XY GT is legendary of course, but I never liked it that much except for it accomplishments. It is a thing of beauty, but I think what turned me off was that everybody loved it.

Off topic, my fav to look at was the
Valiant RT Charger

[kré]

Originally posted by plext
Bah, I'll see your corvette and raise you a new GT40.

you're not raising me anything against a c5r.

[DumHed]

I would!

c5r is teh suck!

[kré]

Originally posted by DumHed
I would!

c5r is teh suck!

nah, you are

[still life]

If we're playing the who-owns-who game, GM own a chunk of fuji heavy industries (subaru parent company)

So for large sedan looks / performance / handling / modification potential, I'll take the new Subaru Liberty GT manual wagon, and call it holden!

Because the stupid american engined bullshit holdens + fords made here may as well be small mobile singularities, because they define new physical laws in suckage.

[DrDivad]

i'd have either a ford or commodore V8 if i needed to tow a boat or car trailer or some such....depends on which look i preferred at the time and cost as to my choice.....

[royale]

Originally posted by Necron
I think that this is the ultimate question in Australian Automotive history.

What is everyones feelings on this topic???

Personally I love ALL holdens, but the VL commodore has a place close to my heart... Nothing is as good as a VL GP A Walkinshaw.

Ford or Holden/ Falcon or Commodore?

Both are great...except the fares are getting very expensive, the drivers almost always smell and they are all yellow in Victoria.

Originally posted by Necron
PS. anyone who is going to post anything other than a v6 or v8 in here such as a Lancer or Pulsar.... Expect a harsh comeback as I take offence to these SHITBOXES and revere them as being lower than the scum scraped off of my boot!

Always great to hear from an open minded and intelligent individual who understands the intricacies of automotive engineering.

[Necron]

Hehehe, not bad.. I dont mind a little sarcasm in posts, sorry if it is offensive!.

*ignoring all non positive posts about question*...

If anyone has some pics of a VS Senator I would appreciate them because this Commodore is damn sexy!!!, I want one.

Ok my opinion might not be much to some... but I do "respect" (and I use this term loosely) small cars but I just happen to love big cars....

Im happy for any comment on any car to be posted in here but I do like to post my opinion!!!.:D

[Colonel Kurtz]

Originally posted by Necron
Im happy for any comment on any car to be posted in here but I do like to post my opinion!!!.:D
No! Really?

[V_Max]

Originally posted by cray
you're not raising me anything against a c5r. What about one of these (http://www.smacktards.org/JagR4.jpg), then?

[Necron]

And what intelligent thing have you got to say today?:swear:

[kré]

Originally posted by V_Max
What about one of these (http://www.smacktards.org/JagR4.jpg), then?

doesn't even resemble a real car :p

[V_Max]

That depends on your definition of "real car" I suppose, by mine, that is a real car, the others are (or resemble) methods of getting from point A to point Z, and all points in between :)

[royale]

Originally posted by cray
you're not raising me anything against a c5r.



Ill try one of these..
http://www.dodge.com/nav/photo/viper_motorsports_5_main.jpg

If you are into 'cubes' you may as well do it properly.

[chip256]

Both makes have their good points, but I'm definitely a Holden fan :cool: Anything with a HSV badge is good (mmm, GTS *drool*) as is the Monaro.

I also like my car, a 1964 EH. I'll get around to posting a pic of it someday.

My favourite Ford is the GT90, sweet.

An interesting aside: I've heard that Monaro is Aboriginal for a womans breast. Any confirmation/refutation?

[Necron]

Yeah HSV's are awesome, the new LE Coupe looks pretty mad but olschool is better, look forward to seeing the EH, Wagon, ute or Sedan?.

Im doin' a Walkinshaw rebuild in my spare time, looking for a VX gen III to 'possibly fit in'. seen it done before but the VL engine bay is bloddy tiny for a commo


Ive heard that too.... dont know if it is substantiated!

[kré]

Originally posted by royale
Ill try one of these..
http://www.dodge.com/nav/photo/viper_motorsports_5_main.jpg

If you are into 'cubes' you may as well do it properly.

i don't remember chrysler being in the argument :confused:

[kré]

fuck it anyway, give me a hk gts or a lc xu1 over any of the other cars mentioned in this thread anyway

[royale]

Originally posted by cray
i don't remember chrysler being in the argument :confused:

Thats right, just like the one armed man.:confused:

[Necron]

Yeah HK monaro's are hella cool, but I like the HZ GTS coupe and sedan betta!, just personal pref....

[Hater]

When I was young[er], I used to be a blind Holden man, but now I love Holden and Ford...but not only them...

My dream cars in this current phase are a Phase III (Hoey) and a GTi-R (Sunny).

I've always had a Mini fetish as well. :banana:

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
I think that this is the ultimate question in Australian Automotive history.

What is everyones feelings on this topic???

My feeling is that neither of them is really Australian anymore (one never was).

Shitbox is kinda subjective. If you compare top to top, the HSV / FPV crew are slower. Must suck to have your aspirational cars slower than shit :D


Anyway, if I got a lobotomy and then decided to buy a car, I'd go a Holden.

[OddSocks]

:)

My 1971 Kingswood, while not particularly speedy being on a 161 red motor, continues to trundle the streets with bugger all fuss - and there's something relaxing about only having three gears to worry about - even if they are column shift.

Good on fuel. Sensibly quiet running. Only failures in last 5 years - speedo wore out (swapped) fuel gauge gone dicky, crud in fuel blocked carby, and a ball joint let go after doing 80ks daily on bad outback dirt roads for two years.

Style wise, I guess she's a bit boxy; but she does the job.

Having rarely driven anything else apart from a Triton ute, I can't make great comparisions - but I know she's reliable and the suspension's pretty good. .. and bench seats front and back make recovery naps possible anywhere :)

[scathing]

Originally posted by still life
If we're playing the who-owns-who game, GM own a chunk of fuji heavy industries (subaru parent company)

So for large sedan looks / performance / handling / modification potential, I'll take the new Subaru Liberty GT manual wagon, and call it holden!

Well, if you want to start brand-bending for a sedan, I'll go something pure Ford (not just partially owned) and get a Jaguar XJR.

Or, if we're talking two doors, got Aston Martin V12 Vanquish?

[Necron]

I never said that the Brands were AUSTRALIAN... I said that the battle between the brands is very uniquely Australian in regards to the Commodore and Falcon,

Man you must be a dull shit to think that a small car can go faster than a big V8... although much more initial power for quick take off's but pure speed cannot be matched..... hmmmm about twice the torque 3 to 4 times the Rear wheel HP and 2-3 times more KW power than any small car out there as standard, even the turbo 4's.

Ohh yeah and another thing...... If you can give me any real stats on a production car 4 cylinder that has a better MAX top speed than a V6 or V8 then go ahead!!!!

Compared to the "TOP", what exactly does top cars mean?, I think you missunderstand, I am NOT comparing them to say... A Dogde VIPER GTS-R, I am saying that they are better than say... a Pulsar sss or some turbo fucking Focus!.

What top cars? is my question to you?.

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
Man you must be a dull shit to think that a small car can go faster than a big V8... although much more initial power for quick take off's but pure speed cannot be matched..... hmmmm about twice the torque 3 to 4 times the Rear wheel HP and 2-3 times more KW power than any small car out there as standard, even the turbo 4's.

Typical one-dimensional mentality, that "fast" means only in a straight line. I suppose its too much to ask for some people to try accelerating AND steering at the same time.

Of course, with the right gearing, you can even make buses hit high speeds.

Once you cross 110km/hr you're in murky waters (and in most states, constantly checking your backs for the uniformed tax collectors, I mean police), so your moonshot gearing is absolutely useless, and for the most part in a current LS1-equipped car you may as well be driving a 4-gear manual.

For the record, the old Liberty B4 (and the current GT) could bang off a 250km/hr speed limiter (and held the record for the world's fastest wagon for a while).

The other problem is that Japanese cars are power capped, which doesn't allow for a fair comparison. Not because they can't produce more power, but because they're not allowed to.

If you're talking full manufacturing, it wouldn't cost Mitsubishi that much to make 240kW+ out of the Lancer Evolution. Hell, replacing the exhaust (aftermarket ones retail for around $2K and so doesn't include the fact that you don't spend money buying the one that's currently on it) and fiddling with the engine computer (which is a fixed cost since the thing has to be programmed at some point) would make those numbers. The only reason they don't is because they need to pretend their cars only make 206kW.

The other thing with the Evo is that its designed for rally work, which doesn't aim for high speed. The road model reflects that, and so the gearing is set up for acceleration. Its nothing inherent in the engine, just in the setup.

Anyway, stick with your land barges. Having driven fast in a straight line and fast around corners, I know which one is more exciting and requiring in skill. That and I chuckle watching your kind do loser flybys after I launch faster off the line, then great pleasure catching you on the first corner and passing you on the outside of the second.

[V_Max]

Originally posted by Necron
about twice the torque 3 to 4 times the Rear wheel HP and 2-3 times more KW power than any small car out there as standard, even the turbo 4's.You may wish to investigate the relationships between bhp, kW and torque (hint: a lower-revving V8 with 2x the torque of a high-revving 4cyl will have less than 2x the power, for a start), because otherwise people might read your post and thinkMan you must be a dull shit;)Originally posted by Necron
Ohh yeah and another thing...... If you can give me any real stats on a production car 4 cylinder that has a better MAX top speed than a V6 or V8 then go ahead!!!!
1995 Lotus Esprit S4S, top speed 165mph
The only quoted Commodore figure I can find is 260kmh or just under 162mph for a 2001 HSV Senator.
What do I win?

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
Compared to the "TOP", what exactly does top cars mean?, I think you missunderstand, I am NOT comparing them to say... A Dogde VIPER GTS-R, I am saying that they are better than say... a Pulsar sss or some turbo fucking Focus!

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI (already two generations old) vs a HSV GTS. The Evolution is faster to 100km/hr, faster down the quarter (which is your general Australian idea of "performance"), and around any piece of surfaced road with corners it'd shit all over a HSV.

Take it onto your rural dirt roads (the kind a true-blue "from the land" Aussie would be proud to take his ute on), and the only difference in shitting is the height at which the Lancer defecates on the HSV.

[scathing]

Originally posted by V_Max
1995 Lotus Esprit S4S, top speed 165mph
The only quoted Commodore figure I can find is 260kmh or just under 162mph for a 2001 HSV Senator.
What do I win?

Yeah, I was gonna quote a "decade old" Lotus Esprit on that. And 165mph is exactly 250km/hr, the speed that cars in Europe are limited to. :)

[V_Max]

Originally posted by scathing
Yeah, I was gonna quote a "decade old" Lotus Esprit on that. And 165mph is exactly 250km/hr, the speed that cars in Europe are limited to. :)
Google makes it just over 265 (http://www.google.com.au/search?q=165mph+in+kph&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&meta=), or fast enough by about 5kmh to upset some people :D
Edit: 5 vs 2 typo

[biomechanic]

I was born into a Ford family, my uncle used to Race an old V8 ED Falcon out in Country NSW (basically the equivalent in those days of a V8 supercar), that thing was a beast. My dad went against the trend and bought a VT S ute, it's fuckin uncomfortable to drive (seats blow chunks). I can appreciate the HSV design, they are sexy cars, but Ford are on a come back and have returned to the ideals that made them great during the late 60s early 70s - BALLS! I hope they do get their act together and built a new generation GTHO - 370+kw blown V8...mmm.

I'm not strictly a Ford man though, I could definitely see myself slipping behind the wheel of a Skyline GT-R.

But I think it's time to sell my EF Falcon, and trade up to an XR6 Turbo (Black, 18" rims) - oh yeah.

[Necron]

Why be offended by these comments?, I am happy with my VL and Id happily kick your asses in a drag and or race, Just give me the chance to show you what It can do.....

ohh and by the way.... all Commodores and Falcons also have speed limiters so dont give me that bullshit.


Anyway Im just an enthused fan of V8's so im not that bothered by posts that pin me as a 'One track minded' sort of guy, who really cares!!!.

"You may wish to investigate the relationships between bhp, kW and torque (hint: a lower-revving V8 with 2x the torque of a high-revving 4cyl will have less than 2x the power, for a start), because otherwise people might read your post and think"

even though lower revving, most big v8's will still have twice the power OR KW of a high revving 4cyl, because you cant judge at different RPM!!!..... lets see some DINO testing proof

[V_Max]

Originally posted by Necron
Why be offended by these comments?, I am happy with my VL and Id happily kick your asses in a drag and or race, Just give me the chance to show you what It can do.....Who was offended?ohh and by the way.... all Commodores and Falcons also have speed limiters so dont give me that bullshit.As I recall you were the one that asked for top speed numbers showing any production 4cyl beating a V8's top speed, and you got some. Of course, it's entirely untrue that all Commo/Falcons have speed limiters (well, they do, but many of them it's simply power vs drag), but we'll let that pass.even though lower revving, most big v8's will still have twice the power OR KW of a high revving 4cyl, because you cant judge at different RPM!!!..... lets see some DINO testing proof Well, my issue there was with your statement that a (low revving) V8 with twice the torque of a (high revving) 4 would have more than twice the power, which is contradictory to the very definition of power (torque x rpm). Apart from that, generally a performance-oriented (production) V8 will in fact not have twice as much power as a comparable performance oriented turbo 4, although of course there are exceptions to every rule.
And now I ask, why exactly can you not "judge at different RPM"? I think that's exactly what you must do, because it's not very fair to judge a V8 at 4000rpm (2/3rds of max, lets say) and a turbo 4 also at 4000rpm (half of max, maybe).
Here's something for you to ponder - your common-or-garden HSV almost certainly has a higher peak torque value than a fully blown current-spec F1 engine, and probably over the V8s RPM range will have more power too (well, from 4000 to V8 redline - F1 engines don't tend to go below a 4000rpm idle). Do you think that the F1 guys will be throwing their 900bhp V10s out in despair and beating a path to Holden's door? No, me neither.

[Necron]

Have we gone sort of off subject here or what.... Im not comparing to a V10!.

I did not say at what RPM... I was assuming at the same RPM, at different RPM of course they are going to do better. at different RPM ANYTHING could possibly have a higher power output.

Personal Note; I have driven both a VS GTS-R (best HSV ive driven to date) and driven a Lancer Evo 6. I have to say that the GTS-R was fucking awesome to drive....Handled great, bit laggy in the low revvs department but once the revvs were up it wooped the lamas ass. The Evo was exceptionally good when going off the line but once I hit 3 gear it was sorta like...hmmm am I gonna kill it...... Its' handling was pretty tight, but then again im not used to that small a car, I found that the GTS-R was a much better car to drive.

[V_Max]

Originally posted by Necron
Have we gone sort of off subject here or what.... Im not comparing to a V10!.

I did not say at what RPM... I was assuming at the same RPM, at different RPM of course they are going to do better. at different RPM ANYTHING could possibly have a higher power output.
OK, lets compare two engines at identical RPM, a V8 vs a 4cyl. At 10000rpm a Westfield Megabusa engine makes about 170bhp. At 10000rpm the majority of production V8s will make 0bhp because they've just fired a piston through the bonnet. Hurrah!

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
Why be offended by these comments?, I am happy with my VL and Id happily kick your asses in a drag and or race, Just give me the chance to show you what It can do.....

A quick trip to Google shows me that the 4.9L HEC V8 in the VL's produced 122kW.

Get me a late 80's Silvia with the 1.8L turbo (which puts out 130kW and weighs at least 300kg less), and I'd have problems driving slow enough for you to keep up on the track.

We are talking stock, of course. If you want to talk modified.....well....we all know how much more bang for your buck you can squeeze from a turbo engine than a normally aspirated one.

[Rod]

I'm with Necron.
The basic thing that a V8 provides over a smaller engine is the instant surge of power you get when you put your foot down rather than the anemic slow release.

[Necron]

errr, ok, hmmmm, what if I was talking about a turbo or supercharged V8 or V6 or straight 6 in the VL's case....

hmmm, there are many charged commo's out there, Supercharged V6's turbo V6's Turbo 8's and supercharged 8's...... also twin turbo v8's that woop ass (modifieds of course).

[V_Max]

Is there a point to this? What you're basically saying then, is that all else being equal, more cylinders and more capacity equals more power. Well, congratulations, yes indeed it does. But that's never been in question, has it? What exactly does that accomplish? Not very much.

[Necron]

Have I ever said that I was not comparing on same/equal value not Fair. There is no way to say on "equal" terms that one is better.... Is simply preference!!!! AND MINE IS BIG MOTHERFUCKING POWERHORSES CALLED V8's.

I think that you just answered your own question.... Now howz about that race mr. Sylvia:D

[V_Max]

Originally posted by Necron
I think that you just answered your own question.... Now howz about that race mr. Sylvia:D Can I join in then? A 122kW V8 doesn't sound too hard to dispatch, and I've only got 1.6 litres not 1.8 :)

[Necron]

Err. fine, I like that you are presuming that I only have a 4.9ltr STOCK engine in my VL, if you wish....come get some!!

[V_Max]

Well, Captain Mysterious, if you don't tell us what is in there, it's hard to assume anything specific other than that, isn't it?
Over a short distance I've managed to surprise an M5 before, and I think it's safe to say he's got more power than you, so I shan't be unduly worried.

[Necron]

I have a 4.9 litre turbo that has been dino'd putting out just over 165kw, showme what cha got.

Ill Post The Dino test if you want proof

[V_Max]

Never had it on a dyno - the number doesn't mean much to me, all I care about is that the power matches the braking/handling/grip characteristics.
A quick Google for comparable modifications suggests 130-150bhp at the wheels, weight is around 1050kg at the moment (drove past the local tip the other day and got curious ;)).

[royale]

Originally posted by Necron
4.9 litre turbo = 165kw

ROFLMAO
;)

[Necron]

right.... and considering that it is almost 20 years old now... that aint that surprising!. much better than the VL straight 6. putting out just over 114kw, and concidering that it is only a mild turbo with a mild boost it is fairly good!

What do the turbo Sylvias put out?

[DumHed]

mine puts out 161.5kw at the wheels (230 at the engine) and that's a 2L non turbo engine with a turbo slapped on, running 8psi on a $200 second hand turbo.

Some more tuning and I'll get 180 at the wheels at under 10psi :)

Stock 2L turbo Silvias get 153kw at the engine, and gain a hell of a lot with minor mods like zorst and intake.

I know of several people making over 200kw at the wheels from Silvias :)

Most of the mods on my car are in the handling department though.
Suspension, big brakes, strut braces, sub frame lock, LSD, etc.
It's probably just over 1000kg too.

[royale]

No reference to sylvias intended, sorry you are right, 20 years ago that may have sounded OK, but when you can get a production non-turbo 2L 4cyl to put out 176Kw (S2000), 165Kw from a 4.9 turbo does sound pretty lame.

I dont have a sylvia.
Factory Standard
2.0L Turbo
Max. output (DIN) kW/rpm 168/6000
Max. torque (DIN) Nm/rpm 300/3600
Max. speed (in top gear) km/h 227
0-100 Km/h secs 5.8
......and has no fear of corners.

[V_Max]

DumHed - There's a guy over here with a JUN-modified SR20DET, it's been dyno'd at something around 700bhp. It's a bit...ummm...peaky, though ;)

[DumHed]

yeah, anyone with money can make mega power!

Mine's an experiment in making decent power with mega good responsiveness, for very small money.

My whole car including engine, add ons, suspension, wheels, brakes, roll cage, racing seat, etc owes me about 8 grand :)
That'll go up a little bit when I put the new 6 speed gearbox in though, and then maybe a bigger turbo :)

[Necron]

Ohh well, Id still drag you all just for fun. I LOVE my VL turbo and no one will ever show me different. But I do respect these other cars.

Hoping to get a Vs senator 215 Kw engine for my VL to replace the old 4.9, hopefully get some cash together for a supercharger....looking to get arount 250 kw or more out of it.

mmmmmmmmm..... VL commodore

My cousin has a HQ kingswood wagon with a 5.ltr vs engine in it and it goes like th clappers

[V_Max]

Originally posted by Necron
I LOVE my VL turbo and no one will ever show me different.And that my friend is precisely everything that really matters :cool:

[DumHed]

I would like to see this VL at a race track :)

here are infos on mine: http://forums.zgeek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9571

and dyno chart: http://www.zgeek.com/albums/album11/031028_Silvia.gif

[DrDivad]

4.9liter.......165kW.....hrmm....20yrs old you say


my car is 16-17yrs old......yeah it's only got half that power......but it's a fair bit less than half the engine size at 1.8l

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
Err. fine, I like that you are presuming that I only have a 4.9ltr STOCK engine in my VL, if you wish....come get some!!

Well, that's because you were talking before about "production turbo 4s that will keep up with a V6 or a V8", no modified cars.

If you want to talk modified, fuck, I know plenty of lightly modified turbo 4s that put out more kW at the tyres than yours. They weigh less, and have a better suspension design. For those that weigh about the same, they're all 4WD so somehow I doubt you'll be keeping up on the track.

And since you've turbocharged a normally aspirated engine, you couldn't even class that as a bolt-on mod. You let someone do more invasive mods to a 2.0L turbo (say, to add up to the cost of turbocharging a NA engine), and it'd be the shortest race ever.

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
Why be offended by these comments?, I am happy with my VL and Id happily kick your asses in a drag and or race, Just give me the chance to show you what It can do.....

And I would love to see you race your VL against Dumhed's Silvia on the track. We could play "how many times did the V8 get lapped" before you pull into the pits to refuel first, while he just keeps going along.

[scathing]

Originally posted by V_Max
DumHed - There's a guy over here with a JUN-modified SR20DET, it's been dyno'd at something around 700bhp. It's a bit...ummm...peaky, though ;)

Tomei offers a SR20DET that puts out 500hp. What's the big deal? Its reliable enough for them to offer a full warranty on it. :)

[scathing]

Originally posted by Necron
right.... and considering that it is almost 20 years old now... that aint that surprising!. much better than the VL straight 6. putting out just over 114kw, and concidering that it is only a mild turbo with a mild boost it is fairly good!

You take the money that you spent turbocharging a normally aspirated V8, and put it into that RB30DET (after all, if one's not factory its hardly comparable), and I wonder if your V8 will still be "better".

[scathing]

Originally posted by V_Max
Never had it on a dyno - the number doesn't mean much to me, all I care about is that the power matches the braking/handling/grip characteristics.

Well, there's that. Then there's the fact that your average chassis dyno's absolutely useless for measuring absolute power in any meaningful way.

Given that every time you do a run the conditions change (you're not performing the testing in a controlled environment) and so the values fluctuate wildly. You could leave the car untouched and run it on two different days and get two different values (that "experimental observation error" can't account for), or even two different dynos in the same environmental conditions, so the numbers you pull are just as dependent on luck as anything else.

A dyno is a tool used to tune the car, since your power and torque curves tend to be constant. However, discrete values are only ballpark figures.

The only time my car will ever go on a dyno is when I modify it and I need to tune it.

The only empirical measurements I'm interested in are how long it takes my car to get between two points that aren't connected via a straight line.

[DrDivad]

Originally posted by DumHed
It's probably just over 1000kg too.

surely yours woud be a reasonable bit above 1000...maybe not a huge amount, but i don't really know how much it all weighs anyways......just intuition :P

actually......more i think about it, could well be right.....one way to find out!

/me runs to find a really big set of bathroom scales.

[plext]

Originally posted by V_Max
Never had it on a dyno - the number doesn't mean much to me, all I care about is that the power matches the braking/handling/grip characteristics.
A quick Google for comparable modifications suggests 130-150bhp at the wheels, weight is around 1050kg at the moment (drove past the local tip the other day and got curious ;)). If you out ran an M5 with that, I can only conclude that the driver had no idea where the throttle is. :)

[DumHed]

Well it's 1110 stock, and it now has no air con compressor / condenser / brackets (mega heavy), most of the interior gone, a lightweight seat, half cage (pretty light), bigger brakes (alloy calipers though so pretty light), lighter zorst, no spare wheel / jack / mounting brackets, no electric aerial, no rear speakers, etc, etc, etc...

It certainly should be a bit less than stock weight, and is putting out double the power it had when I got it :)

[V_Max]

Originally posted by plext
If you out ran an M5 with that, I can only conclude that the driver had no idea where the throttle is. :) I'm sure some of it was reaction time, but I have plenty of torque available from about 2000rpm, and more rear grip than an M5.
And it was a very short distance (traffic lights -> 75m -> merge). Another 50 metres and I imagine nobody would see which way he went :D

[plext]

They can be tricky to get off the mark with alacrity, definately a skill that requires practise.

The traction control will screw you big time if left on too. It even poops the party if you go to third an floor it for overtaking. :mad:

[DumHed]

BMWs tend to have 0 torque at low rpm too...
Even the top model X5 doesn't have any, and that's meant to be a 4WD!

[Colonel Kurtz]

Landrover Series III Stage 1

4 speed, 3.5 Rover V8

0 - 100? Mine got there in about 25 seconds. Royale will be able to confirm.

VROOM VROOM COUGGGH SPLUTTER CHOKE FTTTTTTTTTT

Anyone wanna buy it?

[plext]

Very true DumHed, there's a silly amount of torque above 3000 that stays there virtually to 7000. Problem is there's very little below that, and the fact that it arrives in a great heap.

The trick is to have 2500-2750 as the clutch bites, so that you can get forward motion before the wallop.

As to the X5, I'm yet to see one off the tarmac :)

Kurtz: How'd you get that time? With a sundial? :D

Well, I've drifted miles away from the topic and will now desist.

[DumHed]

hehe drifted.

[DrDivad]

ahh, forgot the sheer amount of junk that's been removed :)


should take it to weight station :)

[royale]

Originally posted by Colonel Kurtz
Landrover Series III Stage 1

4 speed, 3.5 Rover V8

0 - 100? Mine got there in about 25 seconds. Royale will be able to confirm.

VROOM VROOM COUGGGH SPLUTTER CHOKE FTTTTTTTTTT

Anyone wanna buy it?

25 seconds??? wont confirm that at all.
If MAY be able to do 100km/h (downhill with a tailwind), but doing it from standing in anything under 2 minutes is just expecting too much.