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still life
23-12-2003, 10:33 PM
A little while ago, I was reading an article on Russian culture, fragment below:


Presents

I would also like to mention briefly the Russian approach to presents in order to contrast it with what I have observed in America. While the Russian approach is more traditional and European than nationally idiosyncratic, it is still a matter for illustration of difference in customs.

Presents are generally a thing intended to be shrouded in mystery and surprise. In America, it is not uncommon to simply request what you want from family or friends and to receive it without ceremony. This is unthinkable in our tradition. It is a vital element of the present that it is picked out by the person giving it, that it is sincere and comes from the heart. It is also important to be surprised; advance knowledge of your present defeats the entire purpose. Presents are generally things of quality but modest in quantity; it would be considered extremely poor form to have a "wish list" or a "Christmas list" or something so pretentious. Likewise, giving money would be regarded as very blunt, offensive and unrefined. Simply giving someone the means to buy themselves a present is contrary to the entire purpose.

This is not to say that the giver of the present should ignore the apparent wishes of the receiver and get him something totally random. On the contrary, the point is to get someone you love what they want. If you are a parent, perhaps you overheard your son or daughter talking once about something they wish they had. You should keep this in mind for a present. The point is for this to happen by implied understanding, and not by explicit request. It should be a surprise, and should be given based on an earnest desire to please.

It is also a matter of principle that presents retain a fog of mystery. That is to say, it is inappropriate to inquire as to when, where and how your present was obtained, before or after receiving it. It is also forbidden to ask about the price; if by chance there is a price sticker that the giver neglected to remove, you should throw it away promptly and act as though you never saw it. These things simply don't matter. In fact, not only is it a matter of ethics, but seeking information about presents is regarded by many superstitious people as inviting bad luck. The less you know, the better and the more magical it is.

I realise that most things I identify here as "American" (requesting gifts, giving money, wish lists) are not so much American custom as the result of crass commercialism and greed, but the fact remains that they are the de facto practises I have observed. I'm very critical of them and always do my best to give and receive presents strictly adhering to our tradition.


I whole heartly agree that the giving of an appropriate but specifically unexpected gift is what "christmas" as we commonly refer to end of year celebrations is all about... it's chance to show the people you care about that you have some understanding of their lives and desires.

What do you guys think?

thingy
23-12-2003, 10:38 PM
It's all sales / marketing bullshit. I prefer to get no presents and give no presents. If I'm out and see something that would suit someone perfectly, I get it for them and give it to them no matter what time of the year it is. THAT is more from the heart, shows more caring for them, seeing something and thinking of someone as opposed to being forced to go out and search for ages for something that you think will suit at set periods.

dozer
23-12-2003, 10:43 PM
going on the russian system, christmas isnt for another two weeks anyway

sagit
23-12-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by dozer
going on the russian system, christmas isnt for another two weeks anyway

thats the whole "orthodox religion" thing. there are people at work who do that

dozer
23-12-2003, 10:46 PM
thats right, its a good excuse to party twice and buy stuff on sale, also means 2 new years!

ShadowNemesis
24-12-2003, 06:56 AM
My kids asked for "Scannerz" and "Yughioh Cards", so I gave them the "I am not spending money on that crap lecture" and made sure they believed me, and then bought them anyway:(

iaidoka
24-12-2003, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by ShadowNemesis
My kids asked for "Scannerz" and "Yughioh Cards", so I gave them the "I am not spending money on that crap lecture" and made sure they believed me, and then bought them anyway:(

=) gold.

Glompbot
24-12-2003, 07:28 PM
When I was a poor student, I used to have to satisfy my want to buy people things for their birthdays etc with cards.

It got to be something I was very particular about...
The card (if funny as they frequently are) had to suit the persons sense of humour or at least make them laugh... Whats the use in a funny card that isn't funny?
If it wasn't funny then it had to suit the person in some way or another.
The card had to have a personalised message written by me for that person... The card would preferably not have anything pre-written in it.

Taking cards too far? Yeah, maybe.

But the first year I started working, I got my mother a perfume that I knew she liked but never really bought for herself because it was expensive (YSL Paris)... $200 later, and punching my brother when he almost let the cost of it slip to my mum... I think my mother realises that she's fairly important to me.

Unfortunately this year I've got some financial issues (housemate moving out and not paying rent owed, bond, getting another housemate in, etc) and I've not been able to buy my family and friends the gifts I want to.... But I think they get the idea that they're sincere anyway.

scathing
25-12-2003, 03:23 PM
I didn't get any presents. I didn't give any.

It all balances out. My Christmas present from everyone was a lack of guilt that I didn't buy them anything (or bought them something crap). And that's the best Christmas gift anyone can give. :)

Like Thingy, I'll impulse buy. If I see something that someone's going to like, I'll get it for them. I hate shopping for specific occasions, since I generally have no idea what people want.

RASPUTIN
26-12-2003, 03:18 PM
I do agree with what is being said about the Christmas hype bull and sincere buying of presents idea but I so love Christmas that I can't help myself. Being an old fart and having kids who just barely still believe in Santa Christmas is a special time for me. That and I love any excuse to see and party with my extended family make this time of year a time to go a bit crazy.

Again I promised myself to have a budget for buying and again I blew it by about $1600 but wtf. Hehe I suppose I am a softy and seeing the joy of being spoilt with absolute trivial crap which I know is not needed but is so much dreamed of wanting on my kids, wife, mums and rello's faces made it worth it.

On saying all of this we did the church thingy even though I am very unsure of the whole idea of God. I believe and try to get across to my kids the true meaning of Christmas as you never now so why risk it I say. Lol I cover all bases just in case.

Anyways next year I AM going to behave, pfft yeah right.

powelltara
05-01-2004, 01:40 PM
:D
Christmas is one of those times of year that changes significance over time, as a kid, it was the only time of year my whole family got together. Now it is about spending time with my close friends and family members and having fun together.
Getting presents people would like and are suitable for them is really important to me, so I belief in the principles of the russian christmas present system. It does not matter what you spend or what size the present is: it is the thought and effort that counts.
The issue with some people is they don't know what they want, and as computer nerds, it is hard to buy for them because they will know what suits their systems.
I try to personalise presents to peoples interest, and sort of make up presents for older people because they don't need/want much, ie a composite of photos for my mother.

still life
06-01-2004, 12:56 AM
omg tara!!

welcome :D

so goooooood to have you here :)