Swordsmen (or women)

[durus]

So I was wandering around and noticed that someone else liked fencing so i thought i'd ask:
How many people have had TRAINING with swords?
That means fencing, kendo, kenjutsu etc.

I have about 2 years worth of fencing. Mostly Epee and Foil. Haven't done it for a while and was thinking about getting into Kenjutsu, Knife Fighting or Iaido.
So if any melbourne swordsmen have recomendations it would be good too.

[edited for spelling]

[gooey]

yeh - i did fencing (foil) for about 5 years.



got to about 13th in the national u18's

[THO]

I was thinking about starting a thread like this. I registered for a fencing class next fall at my college, and I was wondering if anybody had tips or training advice for a beginner. I haven't actually been trained with edged weapons, but I have been trained in defense against them- /runs ;)

[Bifrost]

Well I have been training in Aikido for only a few months and I'm not anywhere near skilled with a sword yet (and I probably won't get to be for some years, as Aikido is mostly empty hand motions BASED on sword technique, rather than actually BEING sword technique), but Iaidoka (another ZGeeker) is into kendo, iaido and kenjutsu and has been for quite a while...

[durus]

I did Wing Chun for about a year which had a lot of edged weapon based moves. Also did Wu Shu and learned their Staff/Spear technique, never go to the knife or sword techniques of Wu Shu though.

[THO]

I wanted to do wing chun since I was in high school. There aren't any instructors around here though, so I ended up doing Shotokan karate for about 5 years. No swords, but I learned a bit of tonfa and Jo-

[durus]

So what was tonfa fighting like? I've seen/experienced most other types but never tonfa...

[ersatz]

did fencing (foil) for about 4 years, was also in the darkages society at uni so got to play with stuff there.

[That Bloke]

Not really about sword related martial arts but anyway, A former member of our Rover crew made this kick arse medievalish sword for ceremonial use by our rover crew, closest to anything like fighting was when it was first made it was used to cut down a small tree with a single blow.

[pleed]

I studied Kendo for 4 years. I got pretty good at it too. Unfortuninately it became logistically impossible for me to continue.

[durus]

Where were you doing Kendo?
Did they do kenjutsu or Iaido there too?
Was it good?
I need a new (sword) hobby.
:)

[THO]

Originally posted by durus
So what was tonfa fighting like? I've seen/experienced most other types but never tonfa...

As far as the tonfa is concerned, it was alright. I enjoyed learning the Jo more, and as far as weapons go it was more practical. The thing I didn't like about tonfa was how close you had to get to use it, and really more of a "defensive" weapon. I was going to learn Sai forms, but I had to quit :(

[iaidoka]

kendo and iaido for the past 2 years..

my current sucky job has sucky hours (12 to 8pm) and thus im not getting many lessons in since feb. This means im turning into a sucky peice of doggy do. its frightening how quickly you can lose skill in something.

:eek: :mad: :( :(

oh yeah. actually helping you. I suggest our dojo. We rock. Australian Kendo Dojos. You can learn both Kendo and Iaido right here in good old Melbourne.

our dojo theoretically teaches two ryu of iaido.. seita (international) and washio ryu... however for about a year or so we havnt been doing much of the washio style.

the url? oh so easy my friend. www.kendo.com.au check our locations.. give sensei a ring.. come have a look. (you just may get to do what no zgeek has yet managed.. meet me in real life ! you will be the envy of all your fellow zgeekers)

[iaidoka]

i should really be sleeping.

[iaidoka]

proving your never too young to have the desire to beat another human being over the head with a blunt instrument.

[durus]

Cool the Prahran one is pretty convenient for me. Guess I'll have to try and get down there this Wednesday.

[Sutter]

I have a dream, a dream of combining all the seperate schools of weapon fighting into one!

How would this work? Have all fighters dressed in full body electrical lamee's (sorta like fencing ones) make whatever weapon you wish to fight with in springy metal, so as not to cause to much hurt. Weapons are also electrical.
Scoring: Head 5 points
Torso 4
Limbs(including feet) 2
Hands 3
All hits must made without getting hit back within 2 seconds. If you're hit within 2 seconds of hitting, you score half points for the area you hit, the other player scores half for whereever they hit.

Simple.

Who wants to help me make this system? I'm damn serious, I want this to happen.

[durus]

You need more rules and more armour.
epee people will be stringing massives numbers of hits together with wrist flicks and kendo people will end up bludgeoning their oponents into unconciousness with repeated head strikes.

I would suggest a more formal rule structure. something with no further strikes after a critical strike (thrust through centre of mass, head or torso or cut to centre of mass head or torso). Also you need a power meter of some sort.

My old fencing instructor used to duel with his friends without armour and without the rubber tips on their weapons. If you made a noise or got cut your oponent scored a point.

[Sutter]

Ouch, he, no. :D Definatly have padding and helmets. Epee' doesn't hurt too much with the current fencing stuff and bludgion type weapons (like bokans(kendo?)) would need to be made of metal and be light and springy, we want a hit to register electronically, but not maim. Think for a slightly more flexable Sabre with a two-handed grip.

I've spoken to an old fencing instructor of mine about the setup I'm proposing (he gave me the idea) and we're both hard-core definate on the 'strike-back' ability. Maybe make it one second not two, but it needs to be there, especially for something like kendo where they have the double kill postion (correct me, someone) where ever if struck in the head you should be able to kill your opponent.

What's your idea for the power meter? What does it do/represent?


:banana: :banana: :banana:

[durus]

power meter as in how hard you hit. foil and epee can both do a lot of damage (pain wise) if you flick the tip so that it whips your oponent (really hurts a lot, this is derived from a technique used to curve the blade so you can score a hit around an oponents block).

with the power meter it's just to say ok you hit him in the head, did you hit him hard enough to kill or were you just going to give him a bit of a scratch? that's what i was thinking.

personally i think the pain one is best/fairest.

[Sutter]

personally i think the pain one is best/fairest.
What about the head? how'd you stop you eyes getting poked out?

Yeah, I'm well aware of how much epee and sabre can hurt, I've had someone burst (!) my skin with a well placed flick. Fucking killed.

[pleed]

Posted by Durus
Where did you do kendo...etc


I studied at in Ballarat. We had a little class down there. We travelled up to Melbourne and trained with Fudoshyn occasionally.
We just did kendo, which was a shame becasue the sensei was a 2 Dan in Iaido (he has just received his 3rd) and didn't think he was good enough to teach it.
I did some Jodo and he also taught Shoran-Ru (sp) Karate.

[iaidoka]

in kendo, it isnt considered a point if your oponents sword is touching you in any way...

you cant mix the arts, imho. a lightweight , metalic bokken ? ewwwwwwwwwwww =)

in sparring, a shinai does less damage (this is why they were invented, after all. people used to spar in kendo with bokken but too many accidents involving death and severe injury stopped the practice)

as for scoring a point.. kendo has very specific locations that are considered "points".. how would you deal with the variances in rules ?

[Sutter]

Kendo has become over-symbolic and has little to do with actual sword fighting. I do not wish to blend the respective arts, but create a new form that shows only if you were successfull in striking your opponent, any to what degree.

[durus]

hehe this is starting to remind me of a cheesey martial arts movie.
Evil Guy: "Your sword technique is slow and antiquated i shall defeat you with my hawk death spiral style of swordsman ship!"

Good Guy's Teacher: "The only true measure is technique can you defeat me?"

Evil Guy: "Yes you're right. DIE!"

[Sutter]

Originally posted by durus
hehe this is starting to remind me of a cheesey martial arts movie.
Evil Guy: "Your sword technique is slow and antiquated i shall defeat you with my hawk death spiral style of swordsman ship!"

Good Guy's Teacher: "The only true measure is technique can you defeat me?"

Evil Guy: "Yes you're right. DIE!"

YES!!!!

[excalibur]

I have about 6 months of SCA training, (full contact medieval style fighting) Imagine a Medieval battle sans horses, that's what I do. we even have archers. I am a swordsmen, not an archer.

We don't use steel weapons, we use Rattan, so that we don't have to pull blows. Steel weapons are only allowed for show in court appearances.

We use full speed fighting, and get hit in the head, and eveywhere is fair target, except for below the knee, and the groin. There are armour requirements, such as a 16 gauge steel closed face helmet. Body armour is not required, except for a kidney belt. Alot of fighters only wear body armour for war, because it's a harder form of fighting than a 1 on 1 tournament.

If you want to , you can fight bare chested at all times, many wear a gambeson (padded jacket) for tourneys, but tabbards at war are needed, for colours to see who are on what side.

We also have rapier combat, that uses thrusts and draw cuts. rapier has fibreglass blades bound in fibre and gaff tape to prevent blade splintering.

[leprchaun]

Originally posted by THO
As far as the tonfa is concerned, it was alright. I enjoyed learning the Jo more, and as far as weapons go it was more practical. The thing I didn't like about tonfa was how close you had to get to use it, and really more of a "defensive" weapon. I was going to learn Sai forms, but I had to quit :(


I have done about 4 years of taekwondo so I have no problem with getting close to my victem..er I mean opponent.. I have been meaning to try the tonfa, but there is a lack of martial arts place’s where I live.

I want to try a sword style(not fencing) if anyone knows of a good dojo in the *cough far western suburbs *coughs louder, please tell me and I will do a little dance for you.

[excalibur]

About as true as you can get to real sword combat, is SCA....

There is a sydney group, they have meetings all over the place.

www.sca.org.au and follow the links

[leprchaun]

Originally posted by excalibur
About as true as you can get to real sword combat, is SCA....

What exactly is you basis for comparison Have you tried all the sword styles available?

[excalibur]

I have done a bit of kendo, and fencing, and others in our group have done everything from fencing to kendo to metal weapons medieval combat groups. There is one person with us who has been fighting with us for over 20 years for that reason.

I say our is as close as you will get to real sword fighting, because we pull techniques directly out of medieval swordfighting texts, and use those techniques. Our fighting is not stylised in any way, and simulates removal of limbs and so forth, there are no touch kills, a blow must land with sufficient force to have been killing or totally disabling had it been a real sword, and an assumed set of armour. (no matter what you have on, it only counts as a certain set of armour) eg. this assumed set of armour consists of an open face helm, so even thought everyone has on closed face helms, we take blows to the face very lightly.

this is why I say ours is most real, and close to actual swordfighting as possible.

[Sutter]

Know of any Melbourne Joints?

[otaku]

Originally posted by excalibur
About as true as you can get to real sword combat, is SCA....

There is a sydney group, they have meetings all over the place.

www.sca.org.au and follow the links

you wouldnt happen to be a grog would you?

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by otaku
you wouldnt happen to be a grog would you?

A grog?

[Mattryx]

Shorin Ryu Petey. :)

[excalibur]

How'd you guess I was a grog???

I don't have a grog name, but I am one.

A grog is the name given to the core unit of Mordenvale (newcastle) fighters. In the SCA, we are world famous, because we where almost unbeatable in our prime. We had a squad called the "devastators" to qualify, you had to be over 100kg. out of armour.

[Megabyte]

Originally posted by excalibur
the "devastators" ... you had to be over 100kg. out of armour.

This scares me. This scares me a lot.

[excalibur]

What will really scare you was that there where about 8 devastators at least, and our biggest is about 150 kg, and wears full maille, made of 6m links (so there is about 20 thousand in his hauberk.) he weighs 235 kg in full armour. he got weighed by weighing an empty ute, then sitting him in the back, and went through the weighbridge.

They also did this with all the deevastators (can't remember how many there where) and there was over a tone of armoured devastator squad.

[Megabyte]

Yowza. That's a lot of man flesh.

[iaidoka]

Originally posted by Sutter
Kendo has become over-symbolic and has little to do with actual sword fighting.

While its true that, since its a "do", kendo has a strong element of personal spiritual growth, I wouldnt go dismissing the martial art aspect of it that quickly

and there is nothing symbolic about iaido. it simply teaches you how to cut people down efficiently.

[Sutter]

Originally posted by iaidoka
and there is nothing symbolic about iaido. it simply teaches you how to cut people down efficiently.

Truely, I respect iaido.

[otaku]

Originally posted by excalibur
What will really scare you was that there where about 8 devastators at least, and our biggest is about 150 kg, and wears full maille, made of 6m links (so there is about 20 thousand in his hauberk.) he weighs 235 kg in full armour. he got weighed by weighing an empty ute, then sitting him in the back, and went through the weighbridge.

They also did this with all the deevastators (can't remember how many there where) and there was over a tone of armoured devastator squad.

hmmm..explains why i got clobbered by your shield wall last spring war.


big bastards.....

[excalibur]

You are an SCA memeber??? So I take it you'l understand this " You mincing southern FAIRY!!'

The devastators got disbanded quite some years ago. Our Main Shield wall last year was the uni group. We also had 2 households sitting behind it, House Magnusson (containing our general) and also House Deorc (containing one of the most experianced fighters in Lochac, but he wasn't there, his squiers where)

So in short, You got wasted By the College of St. Crispins!!!

[otaku]

Originally posted by excalibur
You are an SCA memeber??? So I take it you'l understand this " You mincing southern FAIRY!!'

The devastators got disbanded quite some years ago. Our Main Shield wall last year was the uni group. We also had 2 households sitting behind it, House Magnusson (containing our general) and also House Deorc (containing one of the most experianced fighters in Lochac, but he wasn't there, his squiers where)

So in short, You got wasted By the College of St. Crispins!!!

actually, i got snotted by Ragnar......

*cough* who won the day hmmm? :D

[durus]

Well I went to Kendo in Prahran yesterday. Interesting. A lot to learn before you do anything fun, but this is fairly standard as sword techniques go.
Looking forward to attending further.
This SCA stuff sounds interesting as well though.

[excalibur]

SCA is fun.

What's your SCA name Otaku??

I am Seth the Serpent Keeper.

PS. Ragnar will snot you good. So will Lord Golgol, (scary man, looks like a viking) Sir Daemon is very scary to shape up to as well, he has been fighting for 22 years, and was squier to Sir Elfin. about 18 years ago, before he became Sir Daemon.

One of the most fun I have ever had fighting was against Sir Yves, the guy is about 5 foot 2. and fights with either a spear, or a sword and buckler. I fought him when he was sword and buckler ( me = sword and heater shield, the day I was authorised) I managed to kill him 3 times out of 12 bouts. GO ME!!!

[durus]

Well I attended Kendo for the second time this week.
Very fun. Two Handed swords and yelling = much (needed) stress relief.
So to the other ZGeekers in Melb.
Come to the Prahran Kendo night (in iadoka's post) on Wednesdays at 6pm for some very entertaining sword work.
It's $60 to join and $13 per lesson or $95 per month for unlimited lessons in a month. Definately worth it.
Also since I'm a beginner if you join the Prahran one you won't be the only beginnner.