Athlon woes

[sperm]

Just recently I finally let go of my old home computer and upgraded.

Old System: Athlon 500 (Slot A), 256MB ram, TNT2 video, 20GB hdd, dvd reader, etc

New System: Athlon 64 3200+, 512MB ram, 9600XT video, 2x120GB SATA raid, etc

I had promised my old system to my nephews so that can play 'kinder' type games.....

However, after spending oodles of cash on the new system, and in the process of change over (I build systems myself) the old system stopped working. I think it was when I broke the cardinal rule of removing power to the power supply before disconnecting the motherboard supply (even when the machine is off)

So now the old machine doesnt work ! :(
I can power on with the power switch, the cpu fan powered from a header works, the cdrom will eject, and the fan on the agp video card spins ..... However, the monitor just stays in standby mode. I recall when it worked, it used to give one beep at startup, now it doesnt :grr:

Ive tried swapping other power supplies, memory, video cards, and the monitor works on other computers etc

Im guessing either the cpu or the motherboard has been fried. However without another slot A system to test parts on Im shooting in the dark ! (anyone please !)


So now I see my options in the poll above...

Advice anyone ?

[Al]

On other computers I've put together there's been some form of diagnostic LEDs on the mobo. If you've got these you can pinpoint the problem. Also the beeps you mentioned are another type of diagnostic.

The lack / presence of certain length / sequence of beeps can indicate something.

On my old pc, I was in the process of trying to determine what was wrong when to power supply died (pretty obvious to fix then ;)).

If your nephew has $300 you can get an athlon mobo (with sound and graphics onboard) plus a low spec cpu and ram...

Hope that helps!

[Reven]

Err, yeah... Old and busted!.

I just made my new computer:

Athlon 2800XP
Radeon 9600PRO
512 DDR400 multichannel RAM...(I with I had a gig of Corsair RAM)
80 gig WD HDD
Gigabyte K7 Triton Mobo
DVD/CDRW Combo
17" Acer monitor
keyboard/mouse
...for only $960

Im sure you could nock up a system that is fairly decent for them for around $200 or so.

I know it's not much help, but, meh!

[sperm]

Al: yeah, Ive seen those lights/beeps before, the helped me once when I had to change some jumpers on a video card to enable 4X so a machine would boot.

unfortunately this board is circa 1999, so that one beep was basically just a start confirmation, and it has no further diags.

btw - my nephews are 5 and 3 yos (hence the 'kinder' games) they dont have a lot of cash, and their parents are stingy.


benwah: I see you voting option 1, you cruel heartless bastard !

reven: go read the forum guidelines and stop looking for excuses to brag

These subforums are for serious discussion about technical matters only. Do not post jokes, flames, off topic material or anything that doesn't contribute to the topic at hand. If you do it's most likely that it will get removed or relocated.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by sperm
Al: yeah, Ive seen those lights/beeps before, the helped me once when I had to change some jumpers on a video card to enable 4X so a machine would boot.

unfortunately this board is circa 1999, so that one beep was basically just a start confirmation, and it has no further diags.

btw - my nephews are 5 and 3 yos (hence the 'kinder' games) they dont have a lot of cash, and their parents are stingy.


benwah: I see you voting option 1, you cruel heartless bastard !

reven: go read the forum guidelines and stop looking for excuses to brag

The beeps have been a long time part of PC-based motherboards. They have been compulsory on all motherboards since 088 and 086 days. They indicate a result from the Power On Self Test, and no beep means that either you don't have a speaker attached or POST did not complete. If POST didn't complete then your problem is probabaly a buggered BIOS and your motherboard is almost definetly fucked.

Sorry dude, but there's not much way to avoid that conslusion.

[Reven]

Oh, yeah. And my comment about making up a computer was a total joke!. Im not a noobie and im sorry to offend you (seriously)

New System: Athlon 64 3200+, 512MB ram, 9600XT video, 2x120GB SATA raid, etc

...why dont you take your own advice, I was just stating how cheap puters are now and that instead of guessing what is wrong/ wasting money, you could buy an effective machine for them for a very minimal price!.

[Al]

Originally posted by sperm
btw - my nephews are 5 and 3 yos (hence the 'kinder' games) they dont have a lot of cash, and their parents are stingy.

In the case that it's just the mobo, you maybe able to pick one up for cheap... Ebay?

I've got an old pc i'd give you, but I'm in the wrong state! (its just a citrix something)

You maybe able to pick up an ultra cheap pc from a school that's done with 'em...

Sorry dude, I'm fresh outta ideas.

[thingy]

Agreeing with Buffalo. Either speaker's blown or it's not completing the POST (not even up to the stage where it initialises the speaker which is very early in the process). Motherboard is most likely needing replacement, but I've heard of similar stories where it's been the PSU.

Doubt it'd be the CPU as I don't believe that is even initialised by the stage POST that provides beep codes - just the BIOS and a few other things that are built into the motherboard.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by sperm

benwah: I see you voting option 1, you cruel heartless bastard !


Yep! trust me, your entering a world of pain! although it's a really really nice thought and secretly I want it to really work out well for the little tikes! good luck!

[sperm]

hmm, so you think it would be more likely the motherboard has gone over the cpu ?

I experimented with turning it on with no cpu inserted in the slot and it still behaved in the same manner.

also, pressing the reset button does cause the machine to reboot, so something is responding; and as I said, power does seem to be distributing.

dunno about the speaker being blown, i could test that i guess.

is the motherboard far more likely to die and is more fragile than the cpu then ?

would it be better chances trying to source a 'slot a' mobo and trying the cpu in that instead ??


reven: I already knew you werent a site noobie.

[Reven]

Originally posted by sperm
reven: I already knew you werent a site noobie.

Ok. (my most serious voice), sounds like a faulty mobo

[Al]

Originally posted by sperm
would it be better chances trying to source a 'slot a' mobo and trying the cpu in that instead ??

Testing to isolate the problem sounds like your best option...

[RASPUTIN]

One side of me has a small peice of sympathy for them but the other side has madly screaming sirens and flashing warning lights.

Firstly it is pretty hard to blow up a cpu that is plugged into a m/b so the problem is most likely the m/b itself.

Secondly are you mad? Never ever help family or friends with computers. All they ever do is ring you with issues and if anything goes wrong you are always to blame. Personally I would give the faulty box to their parents and say it needs a new m/b so fix it if you want and leave it at that.

[durus]

I've got a junker pc in my lounge with adequate parts to become a working pc. So if you want you can just come over and take it away. I'm sure my flat mate will be happy about it.
:)
I've been meaning to make it into a server but never get around to it and now I've got ANOTHER spare pc sitting around except the new one is in a lianli case so i'm not giving it away.
:) PM me.

[Benwah]

Originally posted by RASPUTIN


Secondly are you mad? Never ever help family or friends with computers. All they ever do is ring you with issues and if anything goes wrong you are always to blame. Personally I would give the faulty box to their parents and say it needs a new m/b so fix it if you want and leave it at that.

*AAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOGAH! warning will robinson!*

yeah, this issue reeks of that, but in staying that, sprm is giving it to them so no 'ownership' is going to be attributed to it so there is a buffer......

Just remember to bring a screwdriver! heh.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by sperm
hmm, so you think it would be more likely the motherboard has gone over the cpu ?

I experimented with turning it on with no cpu inserted in the slot and it still behaved in the same manner.

also, pressing the reset button does cause the machine to reboot, so something is responding; and as I said, power does seem to be distributing.

dunno about the speaker being blown, i could test that i guess.

is the motherboard far more likely to die and is more fragile than the cpu then ?

would it be better chances trying to source a 'slot a' mobo and trying the cpu in that instead ??



It is pretty unlikely that the speaker is cactus - I only mentioned it for completeness' sake. It is almost certain that the mobo is gone, but beyond trying the CPU in an equivalent mobo there's little way to test it.

The POST is the most fundamental test that the mobo does and it's performed before anything else is tested, before the cpu, before RAM, before on-board peripherals, before everything. If that fails - buggered mobo. If it was any other component down the line, the POST would find it and give a specific combination of beeps indicating what the particular fault is (a table indicating what each beep code means is usually included in the mobo manual).

If there is no beep at all it means that the POST isn't even finishing it's most fundamental tests and cannot even return a error code. This may be due to a faulty BIOS or something, but the net result is that you'll have to replace it. There's a small chance you may be able to replace the BIOS or POST chip but it's extremely unlikely (read impossible), and may not neccessarily fix the fault.

As far as the reboot switch is concerned - it's connected to the PSU through a connector on the motherboard but it is essentially isolated - it will keep working even if the BIOS or mobo is buggered.

As far as helping your family, are you into self mutilation? Slap yerself for me!!! :)

[sperm]

al: yeah i would like to do more testing, but the slot-a is too rare, i dont know anyone who has them !

rasputin: thanks, another opinion on the mobo. looks like my initial thoughts about the cpu might have been wrong then.
actually i dont mind being it-support for my family, its how i score points with them, im shit at being a handyman

durus: you aint scamming me are you ?

[spurr]

I assume you've triple-checked that every plug and card is connected to the right place and seated properly. Sometimes it can even pay to disassemble the whole thing and put it back together again...you never know your luck!

I don't know if the MB uses an AT power supply, but if so make sure the power plugs are in the right way.

Other than that, there is not much else I can suggest. Perhaps remove the battery and reset the CMOS?

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by spurr
I assume you've triple-checked that every plug and card is connected to the right place and seated properly. Sometimes it can even pay to disassemble the whole thing and put it back together again...you never know your luck!

I don't know if the MB uses an AT power supply, but if so make sure the power plugs are in the right way.

Other than that, there is not much else I can suggest. Perhaps remove the battery and reset the CMOS?

It can't be the power supply coz the CPU fan and GPU fan are winding up (I presume you don't have a seperatly-powered GPU). Improperly seated or reversed power connectors would stop POST from completeing (obviously) but the fans wouldn't be powered either... By memory the two mobo power connectors should have the black wires in the centre... Here's (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/partsMotherboard-c.html) a bit more info.


Reseting the CMOS isn't a bad idea though! - that could be worth a shot. It seems unlikely to fix it, but it takes seconds and it couldn't hurt... More info here (http://www.sysopt.com/cmospass.html).

[Goat Boy]

You fried the CPU.

I did it last week.
Happens with ease on Athlons.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by Goat Boy
You fried the CPU.

I did it last week.
Happens with ease on Athlons.

You'd get a POST error Goat Boy.

[Goat Boy]

Originally posted by Buffalo
You'd get a POST error Goat Boy.

I didn't when I did it last week.

I replaced the CPU and everything is now back to normal. I put the old CPU in another machine and same thing.

[Buffalo]

Originally posted by Goat Boy
I didn't when I did it last week.

I replaced the CPU and everything is now back to normal. I put the old CPU in another machine and same thing.

Fair enuff - I guess you shouldn't discount a fault on CPU after all Sperm.

I guess you might have to do some isolation testing! :(

[spurr]

Originally posted by Buffalo
It can't be the power supply coz the CPU fan and GPU fan are winding up

Doh! Of course they are.....thanks for the correction.

I wonder if only half paying attention is better or worse than paying no attention?

[sperm]

heh, its not that old. the power supply isnt an AT its an ATX

ill try resetting the cmos tonight, i seem to recall there being jumpers for that, but ive never had much success in the past ...


goat boy: i dont suppose those athlon were slot-a ?

[Afta Image]

Sperm,

one thing I can think off, the CPU is the first thing tested as part of POST, take out the memmory and power up. If you get the 1-3-1 (or your mobo's equivalent beep code) I say it is most likely the board. Despite some flack for the Athlon Chips, my experience has seen them to be quite durable so I would be suprised if it is te CPU.

My money is on the board. But the best way is to find another machine and confirm. once you have, just buy a board or CPU (Which ever is causing the fault). the other option is cheap ebay or Trading post machin which uses your memmory and CPU. buy it and test yourself, then salvage the part(s) that are faulty.

Ohhhh, if you have any cards in it that are not essential, remove, I have seen modem cards, Nic's and sound card blow which causes this fault, not common but it does happen so make sure the only card you have is video (assuming your board does not have an onboard vid card).....

Hope it helps.

P.S. If I hear of anyone with such hardware, I will let you know....

[Buffalo]

Doesn't he POST check it's own functionality first? - it tests items according to a hierachy with the most fundamental things first.

The CPU would be close to the start of the list BUT POST would complete to the stage where it can report errors before the CPU is tested - otherwise what's the point?

[Buffalo]

Actually - I have done a littel bit more research and you are right Afta - the CPU is very early on in the POST order:

1. The first step of POST is the testing of the Power Supply to ensure that it is turned on and that it releases its reset signal.

2. CPU must exit the reset status mode and thereafter be able to execute instructions.

3. BIOS must be have readable.

4. BIOS checksum must be valid, meaning that it must be readable.

5. CMOS be accessible for reading.

6. CMOS checksum must be valid, meaning that it must be readable.

7. CPU must be able to read all forms of memory such as the memory controller, memory bus, and memory module.

8. The first 64KB of memory must be operational and have the capability to be read and written to and from, and capable of containing the POST code.

9. I/O bus / controller must be accessible.

10. I/O bus must be able to write / read from the video subsystem and be able to read all video RAM..

What I don't know is at what point does POST become able to report it's status through beep codes... I'll bbak when I figure it out (I'm on a mission now!!! :))

Edit: I found some indications that suggest on most mobos no beep codes means the post isn't running at all - buggered mobo.

Some brands however wont beep at all if it detects a fault in the system board, but it doesn't differntiate between the board and the CPU, so it's hard to isolate the specific fault.

[Buffalo]

Hey Sperm - what make is the motherboard? (I couldn't seem to find it anywhere)

[sperm]

Buffalo: nice to see Ive got you fired up, i dont like computers beating me either

Heres the link to the mobo http://tw.giga-byte.com/Motherboard/Products/Products_GA-7IX.htm
i think i had it flashed to the F3 revision ....

[sperm]

ok, tried removing the memory, didnt seem to make any difference

tried resetting the bios same thing

just to be complete, ill take the battery out for an hour or so to clear the cmos good
....

[Afta Image]

Sounds like the mobo, but I wont gaurantee it.....

[sperm]

Update: Ive managed to source (via e-bay) a motherboard (GA-7IXE) similiar to the one installed, once Ive had it delivered (from sydney) hopefully things should go better .....

[sperm]

Originally posted by thingy
Motherboard is most likely needing replacement, but I've heard of similar stories where it's been the PSU.

Doubt it'd be the CPU

Update2: Installed the replacement motherboard and now ITS ALIVE !!! bwahahaaha

Thanks everyone for your help, esp. thingy who made the call first.

lesson learnt: unplug the mains before attaching/detaching the motherboard power !!!

[Truephoenix]

even though you replaced it it prob still works, have you tried resetting the bios? there should be a jumper near the bios battery. unplug anything that isn't essential to the operation of the computer eg: sound cards, ethernet. unplug your hard drives keyboard, mouse

[wolfpac181]

Advice anyone ?


Don't do that to a PC ever again.... best advice I can give.

[Marshall77]

full systems under $500

http://www.fluidtek.com.au/webcontent29.htm

AMD 2400xp Athlon Full System

Only $499.00 With 17" LG ADD $155.00 LCD 15 $389.00

All Above Systems Include FOR FULL SPECS OR CLICK HERE>
http://www.fluidtek.com.au/product1.htm

Otherwise your local pc shop might have second hand stuff cheap.

[sagit]

You do realise this thread is almost 2 yrs old?

[OneSwo]

2 years old, and a 3200+ w/ any SATA setup is still considerably good hardware ... :P As in not that obsolete..

Scary. I remember 95-97 meant 120mhz CPU to 566mhz CPU. WTF happened in the hardware development the past 2 years? :/



Oh yeah, and, regarding your post. If you dont get a beep, that typically means that your board isnt completing the power on self test (POST) and your pretty much fucked. Can it be fixed? Yes. Is it worth it? No.

I'd go hit up newegg.com or a site like it and order a new motherboard/cpu that works with your ram and other already-existing hardware that was in that machine, and put a new one together.

Besides, the 500mhz athlon is old as moses and slow as cold sap drips. Though more powerful, a 400mhz pentium felt faster.

I'd reccomend an Athlon 2100+ or 1.333ghz CPU, and the Asus K7V266-E / AA motherboard, if you can get your hands on one. I built a system using those peices (with the 1.333ghz athlon), around 2001 when the hardware first came out. I still have it sitting on one of my desks today and I use it for batch-photoshop-processing. (granted its not the fastest, it still works extremely well). That system saw UPS coast-to-coast twice as I moved back and forth from new orleans the past 4 years, and survived. so.. *shrugs*. Hope this helps.