Life changing relationships [Archive]

Glompbot

27-08-2004, 02:28 AM

So. I had a bad breakup about 2 years ago.
Since then I've attempted to start 6 relationships... Only one of those 6 actually became a relationship, and that one relationship turned into me seeing the boy once every other week and having nothing in common and me not even trying because I just wanted to run away (It lasted 2 months).

Now... This is odd behaviour for me, I used to jump from relationship to relationship without very much of a recovery period... then this one big bad relationship and wham... I just can't deal with relationships the same way anymore.

I don't know what it is... am I scared of committing to something? am I scared I'll get hurt again? am I scared I'll turn into that terrible person once more? am I scared of losing my independance?

Has anyone else had one major relationship in their life that has turned them into something they never thought they'd be?

This might seem sad, but I adopted a quote for a while... It seemed to explain things best for me.

"You don't know anything about the world. You just don't fucking know. So I withdrew from it. I didn't kill myself, though I stood shaking with a broken bottle in my hand more than once. I just closed down for a while, and when I reopend for business I wasn't the same. I found someone else to be." - Only Forward by Michael Marshall Smith

I'm trying to get this Relationship forum goin damnit!

RaZ

27-08-2004, 02:44 AM

Glompbot

27-08-2004, 02:49 AM

The thing is, I am smiling and I am living for the moment.

I'm just sometimes so angry that one person changed me so much.

One of my closest friends* labelled me as "Damaged Goods"... Thats a sometimes depressing thought.

*note: I told this person they were no longer a friend about 6 months ago. If they want my friendship they have to earn it.

hockypocky

27-08-2004, 03:29 AM

MC SoD

27-08-2004, 03:57 AM

Sorry to go off topic hols, just want to say for one of 3 posts by hockypocky, that was a damn good one. Moral +rep, cause I'm out for today.

tikdoph

27-08-2004, 08:59 AM

So. I had a bad breakup about 2 years ago....
1. Are you happy with yourself and who you are inside? Do you think that you, Tina, really deserve to be happy, deep down inside?

2. Do you first get to know a person to see if you're compatible, before you enter a relationship with them, or do you just jump in feet first, close your eyes, and hope for the best?

3. What was it about that one relationship that made you a "bad person"?

Without waiting for the answers to those questions, I can still make some basic comments.

Take heart in the fact that any negative behaviours you learn in a relationship can be unlearnt, given time. So if you think that the bad breakup, or the relationship itself, had a really negative effect on you, don't think that you're now locked into that particular behavioural pattern forever. You're not. You can change again. You just have to work at it. It won't be easy, and it won't happen overnight, but if you give it your all, your everything, you can conquer your inner demons and form a relationship that will stand the test of time. You just have to believe in yourself and keep working at it.

The last time I was in the U.S., I bought one of those tacky mounted superhero prints with a picture of a superhero, a mental attribute and a relevant quote underneath. The one I bought was a print of the Incredible Hulk (lookin' mad as all hell), it was about determination and it read thus...

DETERMINATION
In the heart of the strong shines a relentless ray of resolve... it cannot be stopped, it cannot be controlled... and it will not fail.
Tacky, I know... but a good axiom to adopt nevertheless, especially at times when you doubt yourself.

astro

27-08-2004, 10:18 AM

Sapia: Been there, done that, never got the T-Shirt.

As far as i'm concerned, almost everyone's been burned at least once. It happens. All I can suggest is that you try not to let it dominate your decision making. Don't take the approach that "I got burned, and it might happen again". If you do that, the person you're trying to grab might be given the wrong message, or might not think you're serious and things might fail. If, however, you try to walk into it with the same innocent ignorance you did with the first one, you'll probably have a good time. Sure, you might get burned again, but if you want to make an omlette, you've gotta break some eggs.

Holster

27-08-2004, 10:35 AM

Sapia I have been burnt twice, somehow I managed to miss the lesson the first time round.

I have much the same problem as you, I find it very hard to get in to a relationship, but for me it's more of a trust issue. I find it very hard to trust anyone, even my family.

The second relationship was the worst, it involved alcohol abuse and a fair bit of violence. Now when I see anything close to the personal qualities of of my ex in a guy I feel the need to run a mile.

But I have to say I like myself a lot more since that relationship, and it's a terrible cliché, but I feel that I am a stronger person since I threw him out.

All I do is try to trust people a little bit more everyday.

rin

27-08-2004, 10:47 AM

i was in a 4yr relationship which ended 12mths ago. it was a great learning experience for me... things were great up until the last year - we had discussed getting married and i realised in the end that he wasn't the one. i had known it all along, but i just didn't want to admit it to myself. i thought things would get better, but they never did. it was a one-way relationship and it was putting a lot of pressure on me - i feel i was taken for granted a lot of the time . it was hard to get over the loss of my best friend, but i feel i made the right decision... it's hard cos we are now just starting to talk again and trying to get along as friends. i would rather have him in my life than not at all...

now i am with someone else who makes me really happy. things are going well :D

BtrFly

27-08-2004, 10:50 AM

Sap - i definitely know what you are going through.

Glad things are going better for you rin than they did for me...

today is a bad day...

angel_b

27-08-2004, 12:05 PM

Sap - i definitely know what you are going through.

Glad things are going better for you rin than they did for me...

today is a bad day...
Trouble in paradise BtrFly?

BtrFly

27-08-2004, 12:17 PM

trouble has been around for the last 2 mths angel_b... just ask SamBo, i am sick of explaining...

Glompbot

27-08-2004, 12:44 PM

Changing is not always a bad thing. Did you learn from the relationship? Just because you can't find/stay in a relationship now does not mean there is anything wrong. All that it means is you are looking for something different, as to what that is who knows.

See, the problem here is... I'm frustrating myself and other people... Most recently there was 'boy who i kissed at a party' who was really full on and i'd normally get involved with... I had to pretend interest whilst I was deciding what to do... (I ended up running away because just deciding was causing me too much stress)
And the sad thing is... he didn't notice I was pretending. Neither have any of the other guys I've almost gotten involved with.

1. Are you happy with yourself and who you are inside? Do you think that you, Tina, really deserve to be happy, deep down inside?

2. Do you first get to know a person to see if you're compatible, before you enter a relationship with them, or do you just jump in feet first, close your eyes, and hope for the best?

3. What was it about that one relationship that made you a "bad person"?

You always get my name wrong. Its Teena.
1. I am happy with myself, and because I fought so hard to get to this stage I'm not happy with allowing other people to possibly fuck it up for me. Shit. I have some kind of stability in my life for this past year, I've never really had it before.

2. I pretty much jump in groin first. I don't become interested in people I know, because then I know their situations and don't want to a. get involved or b. inconvenience them.

3. I became overly jealous. In the end I was wishing death upon people... I also became the 'psycho ex girlfriend' because I was hurt. I never, ever, want to act like that again.

If, however, you try to walk into it with the same innocent ignorance you did with the first one, you'll probably have a good time.

I can't... the problem is the same innocent ignorance hurt other people at the beinning, and hurt me at the end. I'm not going to let myself into a fucked up situation like that again... this time around I can't claim 'being young' I can't claim 'innocent ignorance'... because I should know better.

Glompbot

27-08-2004, 12:52 PM

Sap - i definitely know what you are going through.

Glad things are going better for you rin than they did for me...

today is a bad day...

*hugs* You've been doing well lately.

Glompbot

27-08-2004, 12:52 PM

I have much the same problem as you, I find it very hard to get in to a relationship, but for me it's more of a trust issue. I find it very hard to trust anyone, even my family.

....

But I have to say I like myself a lot more since that relationship, and it's a terrible cliché, but I feel that I am a stronger person since I threw him out.

No... I've always had problems trusting people, including my family (having a brother who is a recovering junkie doesn't help). I'm terribly paranoid... You'll see one facet of my paranoia come through when I get irrationally angry when I can't find my bag, i'll start accusing people of stealing it. (I carry a backpack or bag with me everywhere... i'll usually sit with it in my lap or between my legs, if i'm not holding it... its kind of a security blanket of sorts)
Off topic. Anyway.

I DO like myself a lot more since that relationship. I know I am a lot stronger as a person since I broke up with that guy. I am a better person.
The only thing that makes me angry (as I said before) is that in this one facet of my life, i'm still 'broken'.

Even when I have a situation where I can get affection from someone, i'm holding myself back emotionally because thats what this situation needs... if it comes to a point where I won't need to do that anymore (doubtful, because its not what I want).... I'm unsure if I will run away or not... even though i've had this situation going for months now and the only thing that has changed is the fact that I'm not holding myself back.

Lurgen

27-08-2004, 01:10 PM

Quite a few years ago I fell into a relationship that I shouldn't have. It was with a co-worker, who I knew to be slightly less than stable. She wasn't on the rebound completely, but was sort of in the middle of a divorce. A clean, fairly friendly divorce though that didn't really play a major part in what was to come.

We worked for the same company, in the same office building but our jobs were totally unrelated. As such we didn't actually see each other during the day but as everybody at the time tried to tell me that means nothing - office gossip doesn't take reality into account. Things got awkward at work, and eventually I decided to simplify things by finding a new job. Finding employment is always easy for me, so I figured I'd make the sacrifice instead of her having to. By that time we lived together too, which might have been a contributing factor.

For three years we stuck together, but I'm fairly sure only one of those three years was happy. The second year was plagued by unfounded accusations of infidelity (her accusing me), escalating eventually into brutal and terrifying arguments. Violent ones at times, and not necessarily started by me. I've been hit plenty of times in my life, I got beat up in school lots and have competed in tournaments a few times so I'm no stranger to being hit yet somehow being punched in the mouth by a girl really threw me.

As we fell further and further apart I got angrier and angrier inside. I fell into the patterns she had set for us - this girl had been abused by plenty of men throughout her life, including one assault involving her husband, her brother, some alcohol and a baseball bat - and she was determined I'd live up to these standards. Getting out was one of the hardest things I did, but I did it. Fortunately I found an "out" well before things ever reached a level that would have resulted in me hurting her physically, although I have a few scars of my own that I wouldn't want to explain to my current gf.

It took a year for her to let go. The "out" was a good one, she decided to spend a few nights staying with a friend and I chose to over-react and interpret this as her leaving me. At the time I was well aware that she was hunting for some space to try and fix things but I knew what had to be done and did it. She spent the next 12 months stalking me, calling me at work, home, sending abusive emails followed by pleading for me to come back. Over 1000 phone calls in a two week period (I kept a log!), you really have to wonder about that sort of girl.

Getting back to the point, I came out of that relationship a changed man. Even now, three years on, I still have a tendancy to think of violence before anything else. I've never resorted to it, don't get me wrong, it just pops into my head a lot faster than it should. I destroyed two or three really promising relationships with wonderful girls early on thanks to some of this baggage, and only managed to find someone as wonderful as the current GF by random chance. She tolerated a lot of my problems early on and helped me get past them.

The changes that I'm talking about were awful ones, none could be seen as positive growth. But they happen. You take a chance and enter into a relationship and the outcome can't be predicted by anyone. If you don't want to take these chances you shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place.

Fortunately, these changes don't have to be permanent. The simple fact that you are aware of the changes and are unhappy with them suggests to me that they aren't necessarily permanent. Me, I changed most of the bad things (with a little help), and I'd say I've improved as a result.

Since this is the "relationship" forum though, here's one tip for you all...

I believe that the tone and course of a relationship are set in stone during the first three months. That the patterns and expectations you set in those early days are the ones you will be stuck with permanently. Those first few months are the ones in which you get to define how much freedom you have, who is in control (there is usually somebody with more control, a perfect balance is pretty rare), and how you deal with conflict. I'm in a three year strong relationship right now, and I believe that having set the expectations that I travel a lot for work, that I need time to myself, and that I'll always be there for her, that we were well prepared for the three years ahead. In other relationships (in between the current one and the "stalker") I felt and acted as though I expected things to go badly, might have been too needy, or simply set expectations I couldn't live up to. They died early, usually before the magical three-month mark.

As you embark on a new relationship, think about how you approach things in those early days. Even if it doesn't work out you might find that being honest, up-front and decisive early on leaves you with a friend worth keeping.

Or maybe I'm damaged goods too, and just learnt to hide it better.

27-08-2004, 03:02 PM

Wow, it's amazing how many people have similar experiences.

My breakup was about 6 months back, with someone I went out with for about 8 months. It's with someone I really love, to this day as much as I did from the first day we started going out. This girl and I got on like we'd been going out for years from the first day. It was scary and at the same time the best thing ever.

I'd been in a 5 year relationship with someone I thought I loved before that, I did and do still love her, but it's nothing like the same. We are and always were more like friends.

I worry every day that I'll never find someone I love as much, that I'll click with and have that same magic. She felt the same about me, but I guess in the end I wasn't what she wanted. That sucks like nothing else, to top it off I was replaced in weeks by someone I wouldn't even rate.

I started going out with another girl soon after, but I just couldn't be bothered putting the effort in.

I really don't want to be hurt like that again, and for the time being I'm sorting me out. Working out who *I* want to be and what *I* want to do with my life. I'm a different person now that I was when I was going out with her. More self contained and able to be by myself, which was never something I could do. In the last 6 odd years, I've been single for the last 6 months...

I still hurt when I think of her, I would take her back in a heart beat if she offered. Even though I know things probably wouldn't work...

Once I've sorted myself out and the pain stops, I'll be looking for the right girl again. For the time being I wouldn't consider it. Sure if the right girl happens along I'll take it, but I'm not really interested in looking. The pain's too recent and the hurt's too deep. Every day is better, but I can't wait for the time I feel 'ready' again...

I don't know how things are for you, but maybe you're not really 'ready' yet either. I'm sure things will change. The damage may have been done, but you sound like a strong and determined person. Things may heal slowly but they heal, that's something I have to believe...

Nandragon

28-08-2004, 08:36 AM

Sapia.
In 99 I gave up everything for someone I loved to no end, moved O/S as well & gave 100% of my self for the relationship... in the end I got hurt.. bad.

The thing I did learn from that & every other relationship after it was this:

If you never take the chance & give something ago you will end up in your older days wondering what could have been If you give it ago & give you all.. you will always know that you were true to yourself & gave your all. Like yourself & most of us here we are still young & no doubt will be hurt still many times over :( its a sad fact, but like I said, if you give your all, if you give it a try & live life for "now" & not in the past.. then you will live a full life & you can be happy in your old days knowing that you did & that you were true to your self ;)

Thats the best I can come up with for now :) hope it all works for you & if you do give it all ago, just smile & live for the moment.

Maybe, just maybe you learned what you DON'T want out of a relationship, and have a better idea of what WILL make you happy. The latest 6 relationships may have had some "thing" that attracted you but in the end had more "things" that repelled you in the end.

Been there done that. I know exactly what I do want.
And what I don't want.

Now-a-days it just seems best to look for a man with less bagage.
a breifcase if you will
and if you seem someone pushing a steamer trunk...run, run fast.

Glompbot

28-08-2004, 11:21 AM

Reprobate

28-08-2004, 11:48 AM

I believe that the tone and course of a relationship are set in stone during the first three months. That the patterns and expectations you set in those early days are the ones you will be stuck with permanently. Those first few months are the ones in which you get to define how much freedom you have...

i wish i had heard this advice a few years ago.

still though, it's all about learning experiences.

i've become a better person, while my ex-wife became a bitter person.

AntZ

30-08-2004, 02:16 PM

Its funny... I think you're right.

I want to feel comfortable around the person... that doesn't happen very often....
The oddest thing about that though, the person I've felt the most attracted to for a long time and feel really comfortable around... Has just as much baggage as I do... if not more.

It isn't really that odd if you think about it. I know that I would find it slightly more odd if I found myself wanting a relationship with someone who hasnt even been slightly burnt, because most of those who come out of burning, even with scars from past relationships, tend to come out of it a better person.

Personally though, I havent even had a girlfriend in the two to three years since I got burnt badly. I was hurt that badly after the relationship that I pretty much severed all contact I had with all my female friends (they travelled in the same circles as my ex did). It was so bad, that until recently I went out of my way to avoid contact with females in a social context because I felt that there was nobody I hated enough to make them suffer with someone like me (In some ways I guess I still hold that view).

Looking back, I can't believe the extent that the aftermath of my last relationship changed me. Now the most important thing for me is companionship and to an extent honesty as well. By honesty, a rough example is that I don't mind much if the person I am with cheats on me, as long as they are upfront and dont do it sneaking behind my back. It isn't the prospect of something happening in front of me, its it happening behind my back being covered up that scares me, to the point where, even though I would no longer reject potential relationships because of self-loathing, the fear that something would happen behind my back sends me scurrying for cover.

*grin* well at least you aint as screwed up as me Sapia, but back to the original quote I definitely think that post-burning its natural to gravitate to those who have been burnt, if only because they know how screwed up things can get if the relationship goes sour.

Glompbot

30-08-2004, 02:31 PM

The relationship I was in... he decided it was going to be an 'open relationship' and was allowed to sleep with whoever the fuck he wanted... and i was pretty much told and guilt tripped into sleeping with who he wanted me to (often under the influence of drugs - which i took willingly, it was the sex which wasn't wholly willing), and when I showed an interest in sleeping with someone I actually liked, I wasn't allowed to because he then 'hated' that person.

I am a very monogamous person... and also a fairly submissive person in relationships... So I was pretty much torn about that situation.... doing what would make him happy and staying with him (because I loved him at that time) vs doing what made me happy and leaving him.

Despite the fact that I asked him to at least tell me what he did with other people... he often didn't, and I caught him out... Despite his promises that he told me everything... So... I am always suspicious of people doing shit behind my back... and a lot of the time I don't expect it to last.

I stayed with him for 2 years.. 18 months of which he was sleeping with other people.
During the breakup (which was very messy and lasted for 2 months...) he said something which has since constantly made me feel very angry at myself... "you could have left me at any time"... so it was my fault I stayed with him, it was my fault I got hurt... so really everything in that whole situation was my fault, what right do i have to blame anyone else?

BtrFly

30-08-2004, 02:38 PM

During the breakup (which was very messy and lasted for 2 months...) he said something which has since constantly made me feel very angry at myself... "you could have left me at any time"... so it was my fault I stayed with him, it was my fault I got hurt... so really everything in that whole situation was my fault, what right do i have to blame anyone else?

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LET THIS AFFECT YOU!!!!

This is a widely told "out" clause for any guilt men have when they are in an abusive relationship. Mental abuse is also classed as a type of abuse, and women who are constantly berated and put down, often never leave the relationship. The fact that you did, means that you are a strong person, and NEVER believe that you arent. There are cases all over the world, all the time, and this is pretty much how it goes... Darling you deserve someone who is your equal, and who is going to love you for who you are. *HUGS* :banana:

Lurgen

30-08-2004, 02:47 PM

I stayed with him for 2 years.. 18 months of which he was sleeping with other people.

There is no such thing as a caring yet "open" relationship. If a person really cares for you, they won't want to share you and wont want to be with other people. It's something guys sometimes do though, often because they're not only unwilling to commit, but aren't really there for the right reasons.

In many ways "love" is nothing more than "being selfish together".

Glompbot

30-08-2004, 02:54 PM

Yeah, btrfly... I should have added "but i still blamed him and the other girl"... I know full well that I'm a strong person... I've kicked someone out of my house where my best friend (the dominant and stronger person in all her relationships) was unable to... *flexes assertive muscles*
It doesn't stop me from thinking that on that one point... he was right... but to be honest, he knew how unhappy I was, so also HE could have ended it at any time too.

Also, I know quite a few happy couples in open relationships... So I disagree with you lurgen. I will however add, that it isn't a situation that most people would be happy in, because I also know quite a few people who tried and failed miserably... and also that it isn't a situation I could happily be involved in ever again.

Benwah

30-08-2004, 03:00 PM

Has anyone else had one major relationship in their life that has turned them into something they never thought they'd be?

For a long while yes, best analogy I can give is, well, my heart was like a cake (stay with me here people) it might not have been the richest most delicious cake, but it was like a cake none the less, one I crafted through my childhood and early teens, when finally I found someone to share my cake with they decided to gobble it down and, in time, decided they were still hungry! leaving me nursing nothing but the crumbs..... but! fast forward a couple of years later and with time and some effort I baked another, this time it was richer and tastier than ever and to make matters even better I've found someone who doesn't want to destroy my cake and gobble it down, they actually want to add icing and help make it even tastier... so yeah... in closing.... it's like a baked New York style cheesecake now with chocolate sprinkles and filled with rich creamery butter and such.....

erm... yeah.... like a cake *Benwah wonders off mumbling incoherently to himself and punching the air with his fists* YEAH!

Glompbot

30-08-2004, 03:57 PM

Heh, a cake analogy.
Next you'll be talking about layers and onions.

thingy

30-08-2004, 04:01 PM

Wouldn't said cake be a bit stale and moldy by now?

SamBo

30-08-2004, 04:10 PM

Heh, a cake analogy.
Next you'll be talking about layers and onions.

hehe, i was thinking just that! :D

Benwah

30-08-2004, 04:13 PM

Heh, a cake analogy.
Next you'll be talking about layers and onions.

That or boxes of chocolates or tree trunks or something, let's face it, I'm a simple man and I get by on simple illustrations, okay! :D

Wouldn't said cake be a bit stale and moldy by now?.

Probably, rotten and black and bitter on the inside but sweet and normal looking on the outside..... which also fits pretty well.

Benwah

30-08-2004, 04:16 PM

hehe, i was thinking just that! :D

yeah, yeah, mock my pain! your just jealous 'cos your Cake ain't as tasty :p

thingy

30-08-2004, 04:18 PM

yeah, yeah, mock my pain! your just jealous 'cos your Cake ain't as tasty :p

Your cake brings all the boys to the yard?

Benwah

30-08-2004, 04:23 PM

Your cake brings all the boys to the yard?

erm... no, thanks for asking, but my Cake doesn't go that way ;) plus it's safely kept under lock and key by my nearest and dearest and she ain't too keen on sharing ;)

*mine!* *mine!* *keeps your filthy handsis offs it!*

SamBo

30-08-2004, 04:26 PM

erm... no, thanks for asking, but my Cake doesn't go that way ;) plus it's safely kept under lock and key by my nearest and dearest and she ain't too keen on sharing ;)

*mine!* *mine!* *keeps your filthy handsis offs it!*

there have been some pretty bad calls in here, but that one takes the cake!

boom-tish

Benwah

30-08-2004, 04:28 PM

there have been some pretty bad calls in here, but that one takes the cake!

boom-tish

was that some kinda of HALF BAKED attempt at a pun?

oh no... it BEGINS!!!!!!

edit (4 hours later) : annnnnnd ends again, pun war narrowly averted.

beerbaron

30-08-2004, 09:29 PM

geez i feel bad now if i ever contemplated ending my relationship with my g/f now, then again, this is my last chance to settle down as i screwed up the previous serious relationship
but
do you ever get the feeling sometimes your partner says or does something that put doubts in your mind that hey this may or may not be the one for me ?

Nandragon

31-08-2004, 02:02 AM

Who asked "have you ever been in a relationship that turned you into someone you didn't...somethinger the other"?

I've heard tell and see with my own 2 eyes a man turned into a batter-er. The woman of did but didn't deserve it. However, the inner workings of someone once in love can be turned bad with a bad partner. Am I making sense?
This woman was a whore. Her childeren were corrupted to the point that the 2nd grade boy was caught giving cunningless to several female kindergarteners. An act he witnessed regularly at home. The stepfather (a sweetie when not dealing with this trashes problems) went home and beat the shit out of her. He'd come home and catch her with several crack heads and beat the shit out of her. But after divorcing hisself completely was a changed man. He said she just drove him crazy.

I have also been turned to a battered manipulated woman by a man. Took a hyserectomy to get my mind right. Then I beat the shit out of him, and left.

We do strange things for love. We tolerate, we appease, we spread our legs for whomever. If your little voice inside says "hey! wait just one minute"....run, run real fast!

tikdoph

31-08-2004, 02:16 AM

The woman of did but didn't deserve it... Am I making sense?No, but that's ok... why break tradition?

Took a hyserectomy to get my mind right.Don't you mean labotomy?

Then I beat the shit out of him, and leftFor the safety of the human gene pool, I'm sure he was happy to take one for the team.

we spread our legs for whomeverQuoted.

I never thought I'd say this, Nan, but you give trailer park trash a bad name.

Oh, and I don't see what you've got against battered women. I'd hit it.

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 02:39 AM

We do strange things for love. We tolerate, we appease, we spread our legs for whomever. If your little voice inside says "hey! wait just one minute"....run, run real fast!

The problem is... my head always says "wait just one minute"
I refuse to spend my whole life running away from my problems and other people.

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 02:40 AM

tikdoph, inappropriate post for this thread.

beerbaron

31-08-2004, 11:43 AM

tikdoph, inappropriate post for this thread.

Well said, although i hope its tongue in cheek

Springer

31-08-2004, 11:57 AM

Ahh yeah, love can make you a dumbass... Either way, I dont really see the problem. If you want to be in a relationship, go for it. If not, fuck the world, you dont need to be in one.

Whos telling you that running away after the "wait just one minute" thing is wrong? If anything, I think its makes you a better person...

Meh, I'm talking shit again, I'll stfu now :)

tikdoph

31-08-2004, 12:31 PM

tikdoph, inappropriate post for this thread.
Oh please, Tina. You tell me that you're "trying to get the forum going", but as soon as someone says something that doesn't sit well with your agenda (which, upon reflection, seems to me to be you being the centre of attention), you cry foul. If you think that the advice of someone who "spreads her legs for whomever", beats up her partner, calls a man who beats his partner a "sweetie", and says that a woman "deserved" to be beaten, is any more appropriate than my post, then it's no wonder that your friend called you "damaged goods".

Next time I'll make my comments all about you (and no doubt get +repped by you again for it), which should hopefully assuage the rampant hunger for attention that you seem to be cursed with.

Your hypocrisy makes me sick.

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 12:52 PM

ok, greg, I felt what you said was inappropriate because you made a personal attack... I couldn't see any more point to your post than to attack someone who was actually adding content to this thread instead of degrading it to pointless bickering like the rest of fucking zgeek seems to be turning into.

What you said before was valid, had a point beyond trying to get a rise out of someone, and I felt was quite a nice thing to say, not just to me, but to other people who had posted in this thread. But what you said to Nandragon was just downright rude. If you can show me a point to that post beyond some personal agenda you have against Nandragon, then go ahead.

And my name is Teena.

Lurgen

31-08-2004, 12:55 PM

Oh please, Tina. You tell me that you're "trying to get the forum going", but as soon as someone says something that doesn't sit well with your agenda (which, upon reflection, seems to me to be you being the centre of attention), you cry foul. If you think that the advice of someone who "spreads her legs for whomever", beats up her partner, calls a man who beats his partner a "sweetie", and says that a woman "deserved" to be beaten, is any more appropriate than my post, then it's no wonder that your friend called you "damaged goods".

Next time I'll make my comments all about you (and no doubt get +repped by you again for it), which should hopefully assuage the rampant hunger for attention that you seem to be cursed with.

Your hypocrisy makes me sick.

Actually, I thought your post was stupid too and shouldn't have been added to this thread. You had nothing useful to say, so you just tried to crack a few stupid jokes that didn't amuse anybody but yourself but managed to offend a few people who had gone to the trouble of posting useful advice and information.

Try thinking for a minute or two before posting next time eh?

Benwah

31-08-2004, 01:04 PM

Hang on, despite the way he said it, Tikdoph does have a point, any form of physical violence towards another person is wrong, nobody deserves to be punched, kicked or otherwise have violence subjected on them, it's what separates us from animals, sure, some people deserve to be punished (encarceration and removal of civil liberties being two examples) but physical violence is pretty hard to justify, sure we joke about it 'I'd like to kick that person in the nuts, they deserve to be subjected to painful acts involving staplers' etc, but any person in there right mind knows that violence just isn't on... and anyone who disagrees is going to get punched in the head by me ;)

In saying when Nandragon said "Then I beat the shit out of him" there doesn't seem to be any air of it being boastful or something she is proud of, she was just sharing her experience with us all.

So yeah, can't we all just get along! (DAMN YOU ROCK'M SOCK'M ROBOTS!)

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 01:27 PM

Ok, so when I was in my bad relationship, I hit the guy... quite a few times... I never did any real damage, but it was sometimes the only way I was able to express my feelings... thats wrong too, yes?

And when i broke up with him he almost ran me over on his bike when he drove away... then i ran inside and tackled the other female and basically had a punchup with her... had to be pulled off her.

I never really was one for hitting people in anger before that relationship... and it took me a while to recover from it.

spurr

31-08-2004, 01:39 PM

...any form of physical violence towards another person is wrong, nobody deserves to be punched, kicked or otherwise have violence subjected on them, it's what separates us from animals, sure, some people deserve to be punished (encarceration and removal of civil liberties being two examples) but physical violence is pretty hard to justify...(DAMN YOU ROCK'M SOCK'M ROBOTS!)

There are a few thousand years worth of human history that suggests we are not that far removed from the animals at all. Shit, never mind history....pick up today's newspaper and read the court news! Violence is a part of all cultures and probably always will be.

Anyway, whether it's deserved or not, Nandragon seems to attract a lot of attention around here. I'm sure that any attacks on her posts are like water off a ducks back, Nan seems a pretty tough (or very, very oblivious :p) cookie and is old enough to handle herself from what I have seen in the past.

So, back to the topic at hand.....weren't we discussing cake before things got sidetracked?

Benwah

31-08-2004, 01:39 PM

Ok, so when I was in my bad relationship, I hit the guy... quite a few times... I never did any real damage, but it was sometimes the only way I was able to express my feelings... thats wrong too, yes?.

That isn't for me to say, I believe that violence is wrong, but you might not think so (BTW, doesn't make my belief better than yours, please don't mistake what I'm saying into thinking I'm suggesting that) do you think that hitting him was the right thing to do?

And when i broke up with him he almost ran me over on his bike when he drove away... then i ran inside and tackled the other female and basically had a punchup with her... had to be pulled off her?.

This one is a bit clearer, clearly the guy was putting your life in danger, which is 100% unacceptable, that much is certain, again, I'm not going to judge if having a punch up with the 'other female' was right or wrong, you did what you did, did giving her a wack help the situation?

I never really was one for hitting people in anger before that relationship... and it took me a while to recover from it.

If it helps, I'm a very very angry person, but I find that channelling that anger into other actions that don't involve others and not directing it back out is a wonderful form of motivation, heaps of things I do in a day are basically motivated by Anger, lots of people give anger a bad run, but I reckon it's dead handy.

Benwah

31-08-2004, 01:44 PM

There are a few thousand years worth of human history that suggests we are not that far removed from the animals at all. Shit, never mind history....pick up today's newspaper and read the court news! Violence is a part of all cultures and probably always will be.?

Yeah, well I can dream can't I ;)

Anyway, whether it's deserved or not, Nandragon seems to attract a lot of attention around here. I'm sure that any attacks on her posts are like water off a ducks back, Nan seems a pretty tough (or very, very oblivious :p) cookie and is old enough to handle herself from what I have seen in the past.

For sure, not defending anyone, just adding my 2c on what seemed to be a misunderstanding, and, truth be known, using it as a soundboard for my views on the subject at hand.

So, back to the topic at hand.....weren't we discussing cake before things got sidetracked?

Mouldy, bitter, rotten Cake it seems is the flavour of the day ;)

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 01:48 PM

no, I don't think violence is ok, but I don't think it is entirely wrong either...
I felt better for hitting her, but it wasn't the right thing to do... Sometimes violence is the only way out of a situation that escalates like that.

Beating someone down, is wrong, verbally or physically... thats abuse, and something I class differently to just plain old 'violence'.

tikdoph

31-08-2004, 08:13 PM

Try thinking for a minute or two before posting next time eh?I notice a distinct lack of you telling Sapia to try thinking for a minute or two before she punches someone out next time. Nice to know where your priorities are, as hypocritical as they may be.

what you said to Nandragon was just downright rudeOh, but it's ok for you to punch someone in the face, right? :rolleyes: Oh well, so long as you felt better, that's the important thing, right?? Too bad for anyone who gets in the way of your neanderthal rage, huh.

Stop being so self-absorbed and start taking responsibility for yourself. Learn to use some self-control. If a situation becomes too much for your oh so fragile psyche to bear, then do what any reasonable adult would do and walk away.

If someone video taped you punching up someone else and later showed it to you, maybe you'd see yourself for the reckless, uncontrolled lunatic you are during those moments. Think about how stupid you must look when you let that amount of rage overtake you. How about a little less of the rabid dog and a bit more of the mature adult? Violence is never the way out and the sooner you realise that, the better.

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 08:33 PM

Oh, but it's ok for you to punch someone in the face, right? :rolleyes: Oh well, so long as you felt better, that's the important thing, right?? Too bad for anyone who gets in the way of your neanderthal rage, huh.
I never ever hit anyone in the face. No matter how angry I may be.

Stop being so self-absorbed and start taking responsibility for yourself. Learn to use some self-control. If a situation becomes too much for your oh so fragile psyche to bear, then do what any reasonable adult would do and walk away.
I don't know if I previously mentioned this in this thread... but I never want to get in a situation that forces me to become that person again. How is that for you? This thread is about life changing relationships, and seeing what an ugly person I could become when faced with what I faced in that relationship I swore I'd strive to never be that person again.

I did 'walk away' from that relationship. I was the one that ended it, I was the one that cut off contact totally between him and I... I was the one that eventually realised what I'd become and took steps to change that person back into if not exactly the person I used to be, at least into a better version of what I'd become.

It also made me understand what CAN drive people to violence. Haven't you ever been in a situation where you could not just walk away from without a violent confrontation? It may have been in highschool for you even... but it still must have happened to you once in your life.

If someone video taped you punching up someone else and later showed it to you, maybe you'd see yourself for the reckless, uncontrolled lunatic you are during those moments. Think about how stupid you must look when you let that amount of rage overtake you. How about a little less of the rabid dog and a bit more of the mature adult? Violence is never the way out and the sooner you realise that, the better.
I don't believe that violence is never the answer. It might be hard for you to understand it, and I can't quite really articulate WHY I feel this way... but I do believe violence has its place.

Benwah

31-08-2004, 08:51 PM

I don't believe that violence is never the answer. It might be hard for you to understand it, and I can't quite really articulate WHY I feel this way... but I do believe violence has its place.

Remind me NEVER to get in an arguement with you then ;) on this one mate we will have to agree to disagree, in my opinion Violence has NO place, ever, but hey, your opinion is that it does sometimes, that's fine with me, just don't mess with we, 'cos you'll be frustrated when I run away (I'm faster than you!)

landmachine

31-08-2004, 08:52 PM

A girl once said to me "happy birthday" and pointed to her stomach. doesn't get much more life changing than that.

it was my birthday too. goddamn her...

landmachine

31-08-2004, 08:54 PM

Remind me NEVER to get in an arguement with you then ;) on this one mate we will have to agree to disagree, in my opinion Violence has NO place, ever, but hey, your opinion is that it does sometimes, that's fine with me, just don't mess with we, 'cos you'll be frustrated when I run away (I'm faster than you!)

of course violence has it's place, don't be so crashingly fucking naive.

Lurgen

31-08-2004, 08:59 PM

I notice a distinct lack of you telling Sapia to try thinking for a minute or two before she punches someone out next time. Nice to know where your priorities are, as hypocritical as they may be.

That sounds so like what a girl would say to me - "nice to know where your priorities are". You funny.

Here's the other post I was planning on making, but hadn't gotten around to... it's for Sapia, and any other girl who might be reading this thread.

Punching somebody, regardless of whether or not you're going to hurt them, is not a sane move. To start with, regardless of how much damage you're going to do, they're going to kick your ass if they punch back. And believe me, regardless of how good a bloke it might be, he'll hit back eventually.

The rules are simple IMHO - don't hit unless you're willing to be hit back. Thus, you only hit if you can do it well enough not to have to deal with the response. Girls who hit guys get beaten black and blue eventually. In this very rare scenario they might even deserve it (or might not, but if they started the violence they're going to have to deal with the fact the situation was escalated by them, not the man).

Sapia and Benwah are trying to decide if violence has it's place... I believe it does - in defence only. Eg. some idiot hits me and I feel threatened, I beat the shit out of them and walk away (male or female).

If it helps put it in perspective, I have been attacked by a girlfriend twice in my life (same girl, but not the one I posted about earlier): once with a rolling pin (yes, funny now but very much not funny then) and once with a knife. I responded.

Edit (afterthought):
Conflict takes place at a mutually agreed level. Escalating that conflict is easy, one person does something worse then the other agrees to go along with it. Lowering the level of conflict is difficult, sometimes impossible. Thus, raising the level is something you really shouldn't do. Once you both agree on the level, you both behave accordingly. Arguments become shouting matches - both genders can shout, and that's all good. Shouting matches become pushing and shoving - guys are better at this, but that's probably OK. Shoving turns into punches, and it's here that the girls lose. Girl hits guy, guy gets a bruise. Guy hits girl, girl goes to hospital. Girl loses front teeth. Or worse. Most guys can kill a girl with just a few lucky blows without even realising what happened. I wouldn't ever choose that level of conflict were I female, and even being male I wouldn't choose it. For your own safety try to consider these words even if you don't agree with them.

BTW, this isn't criticism of anything anybody here has said. These are observations made based on my personal experiences and the experiences of those around me. We all fuck up, it's whether we learn from these fuckups or not that makes the difference.

Lurgen

31-08-2004, 09:01 PM

of course violence has it's place, don't be so crashingly fucking naive.

Thanks lm, always nice to have a rational and thoughtful response to make tikdoph look gentle and friendly. Glad to see that Ninja rating thing works too, lucky they ain't banning people based on it eh?

thingy

31-08-2004, 09:07 PM

Of course it has its place. For those who are too stupid & braindead to think logically and discuss/argue a topic anymore. Just like flaming, once they are beaten and too stupid to continue they turn to it. It's admission of loss. It's admission you're a moron. That is what its place is.

Lurgen

31-08-2004, 09:08 PM

If someone video taped you punching up someone else and later showed it to you, maybe you'd see yourself for the reckless, uncontrolled lunatic you are during those moments. Think about how stupid you must look when you let that amount of rage overtake you. How about a little less of the rabid dog and a bit more of the mature adult? Violence is never the way out and the sooner you realise that, the better.

Well said. I've seen myself on tape while fighting (at training, never in a violent uncontrolled fight) and it stunned me. A girl friend came with me to a tournament and saw me compete. She never saw me the same again, it really changed the way she felt about me. We're still together, three years next week, so it wasn't all bad but she was a little scared of me for a while.

I'd hate to see myself in a total rage, that'd be fucked up.

Benwah

31-08-2004, 09:11 PM

of course violence has it's place, don't be so crashingly fucking naive.

Maybe in your life, but not mine mate.

Thankfully I prefer being naive, I'm more open to new thoughts, ideas and information that way. I learn something new every single moment of the day. Thanks for the objective and, more importantly completely correct observation Landmachine.

landmachine

31-08-2004, 09:23 PM

Maybe in your life, but not mine mate.

Thankfully I prefer being naive, I'm more open to new thoughts, ideas and information that way. I learn something new every single moment of the day. Thanks for the objective and, more importantly completely correct observation Landmachine.

are you trolling? honestly? i refuse to believe anyone could be that ignorant.

the entire world has been shaped by and will be shaped by violence until we reach a stage of technological evolution where violence no longer serves any purpose - eg, we all live in virtual reality constructs where the very concept of two physical objects colliding in a violent manner is logically inconceivable.

there is an old saying - "he who controls the army has the power". rhetoric is all well and fine, but when one man can kill another, words become a useless romantic idealism.

thingy

31-08-2004, 10:34 PM

the entire world has been shaped by and will be shaped by violence until we reach a stage of technological evolution where violence no longer serves any purpose - eg, we all live in virtual reality constructs where the very concept of two physical objects colliding in a violent manner is logically inconceivable.

Just because the world is, has been, and always will be shaped by war, it does not mean there is a time and a place. Tell me some examples of where you think there IS a time and a place? For the statement "there is a time and a place for violence" to be (in my mind) proven true (or at least make me think it could possibly be true), you need to be the agressor, not just defending yourself from someone elses agressive actions.

Glompbot

31-08-2004, 10:38 PM

Benwah

31-08-2004, 10:40 PM

are you trolling? honestly? i refuse to believe anyone could be that ignorant.

Thats okay mate, I'm not asking you to.

the entire world has been shaped by and will be shaped by violence until we reach a stage of technological evolution where violence no longer serves any purpose - eg, we all live in virtual reality constructs where the very concept of two physical objects colliding in a violent manner is logically inconceivable. .

And thats okay to, nothing I've said has even hinted at the fact that everything you have said here isn't true, I agree, large chunks of history are littered with the bodies of people as testament to the fact that yes, violence has shaped the entire world and will continue to doesn't mean that I agree with it as a meaningful and altogether viable form when it comes to making a point or expressing myself, that's okay though, you can if you want. As for virtual reality constructs, well, I guess that I'm ahead of my time ;)

there is an old saying - "he who controls the army has the power". rhetoric is all well and fine, but when one man can kill another, words become a useless romantic idealism.

I was never one for old saying, guess I'm a bit too naive for them eh? I Prefer one of mine "power and control are nothing without understanding and mastery of yourself in all your forms" Thanks for taking the time to share your viewpoints matey, guess I'll just keep my useless romantic idealism to myself, or perhaps, if you think that they are that useless you'd like to add me to your ignore list? feel free, I won't take it personally, honest, and at least you know I won't subject you to any forms of Violence right ;)

edit : we are so far off topic we will be discussing brands of toilet cleaner soon I think....

spurr

31-08-2004, 10:40 PM

thingy

31-08-2004, 10:45 PM

Hitting children for discipline (a smack on the hand)

That is violence... I believe lots of children nowdays would benefit from it... not all because some children do not need that kind of discipline, but quite a few still do.

That is a smack. It is not violent, it is not in rage, it is not agressive, it is not for causing damage.

Benwah

31-08-2004, 10:47 PM

Hitting children for discipline (a smack on the hand)

That is violence... I believe lots of children nowdays would benefit from it... not all because some children do not need that kind of discipline, but quite a few still do.

Respectfully, How many children do you have Sapia?

Would you hit them harder and harder depending on the actual reason for the discipline?

Parents who smack their kids OFTEN are weak in my opinion, Perhaps they don't command respect? or enough respect for there child to respond to punishment alternatives to smacks on the hand/legs and have self esteem issues? (Children can see this kind of weakness and exploit it)

Glompbot

01-09-2004, 02:08 AM

Of course I have no children... but I was once a child myself.
Yes... I was hit... 3 times in total... each time on the hand... and yes, they were for things I did wrong.

I'm glad you put the emphasis on the word 'often' then... because I agree with you.

fastfood

01-09-2004, 03:09 AM

I was smacked so often as a kid I'm a smack addict now.

Nandragon

01-09-2004, 08:22 AM

Nandragon

01-09-2004, 08:42 AM

What was the topic again?

One thing for sure with the trolls and posers, after a nandragon post one's thread is sure to get illicited eroneous responses.

On subject:
Abuse was not my point, point was that one irrational person in a relationship, can try even the sainest logical person into stomping their arse...

Was I on topic?

Our generation, or yours...takes everything too fast. No one stops to read the signs along the way, or the warning signs.

Oh, Bob only has a SMALL drinking problem, this after only 4weeks of dating....

Sheila has a minor shopping addiction

Greg is a controll freek...

Our perceptions and insights are attitudes colored by the minds paint brush...

If you go slow enough...your infatuation\lust will not color true reality

scathing

01-09-2004, 11:34 AM

Stop stealing quotes from my book, bitch.

Glompbot

01-09-2004, 12:26 PM

scathing, was that directed at me and my MMS quote?
Its a good book.

Glompbot

01-09-2004, 12:30 PM

On subject:
Abuse was not my point, point was that one irrational person in a relationship, can try even the sainest logical person into stomping their arse...

I think I agree with you on this one... I'm not the most logical or sane person out there... but I was turned into someone I never want to be again...

scathing

01-09-2004, 09:51 PM

scathing, was that directed at me and my MMS quote?
Its a good book.
Let me shake my magic 8-ball.

"All answers point to Yes"

Anyway, I think most people will go through a relationship that's a "coming of age" one. When you first start dating you tend to be immature and do puppy love things.

Eventually, though, you'll hit one, or two if you're particularly slow, relationships that change your perspective. Something that forces you to re-evaluate what you want in a partner, and what you're willing to accept as a bare minimum from someone else in your life. It also means you're also more aware of what people can be like, and what people can do to you if you let them that close into your life.

Because of that, you become pickier about who you lower your defenses towards when you realise that the vast majority out there are not only unworthy of your trust and love, but there's a subset that will just fuck you over.

Glompbot

01-09-2004, 10:06 PM

Not your book... pffft.... oh... wait... it was a gift... ITS MINE!

Anyway.

I think the main thing I learnt is that trust and sex do not equal love... I mean, i've always really known that sex did not equal love... but i never really applied it... because with sex came trust, and with trust came love.
Thankfully now I know the difference.

I think you're right about the relationships changing perspectives.. I don't think everyone goes through them though...

durus

01-09-2004, 10:58 PM

As one of the fellow fucked up zgeekers it's time for me to throw my 2 cents in.
1. Spanking your kid is OK. I got spanked HEAPS as a kid, I understand the whys of a lot of them but a fair number were my folks working off steam (i think).
The times when I was bad I deserved a spanking and i know they happened and it was fair enough. The other times when i copped a spanking or worse for little or nothing are completely not ok.
This has always coloured what I look for in a relationship/woman. Because my parents fought all the time, fighting with a gf too much will DEFINATELY make me leave.

2. Emotional abuse. Emotional abuse is NEVER ok. I copped a fair ammount of this as a child and even more as a young adult. More than anything physical could have or would have, this has changed and scarred me. I have a LOT of trouble trusting in my gf's love and have done some really fucked up things in the past. I put it down to the emotional abuse, but I also accept it's my responsibility as they were still my actions.

Back to topic. I have had one positive and one negative relationship and both changed me and my life.
The positive showed me why life is worth living, what I should be trying to get and why it's worth it to keep trying even though i get hurt.
The negative I have not completely recovered from or dealt with and it happened 8 years ago. This is the one that fucked me over in regards to trusting my girlfriends.
Anyway, I'm working on it.

Currently I'm on the verge of breaking up with my gf of two years due to too many arguments and a seeming lack of trust on both sides. The thing that has kept the relationship going this long has been her dependence on me and her emotional manipulation of me, but I think i'm just about through.

In past relationships I have been an angel and the devil incarnate, I have been abused and I have abused others. Nowadays I'm a person who is somewhat distrustful and reserved, but otherwise a great person. I like who I am and am/have been trying to work on the whole trust thing. My pick of partner just hasn't been helping much. But everyday I improve.

Don't worry Sapia. These bullshit changes won't be permanent, no matter how bad they are or were.

durus

01-09-2004, 11:50 PM

So my gf just called me up from europe (she's on holiday).
She basically forced the whole thing out. So we are now broken up and she's another X. I wanted to wait till she got back from her holiday, but i had to sms her cos it's her birthday. Shit how bad is that, a quiet break up, over the phone, while on she's on holiday in another country, on her (fucking) birthday. There's no right time to break up, but damn, could i have gotten it more wrong? YAY for me I'm an ASSHOLE.

Anyway the question that comes to mind now is: Am I the sort of guy I would like my daughter to be going out with?
I think my answer is no. I have too much baggage, but some time in the not too distant future, I'll be a yes.

[edit] Spelling

Glompbot

02-09-2004, 12:16 AM

Jesus... what bad luck that it happened just after your other post :(

durus

02-09-2004, 12:29 AM

Yeah, I knew it was going to happen, but wasn't quite prepared for it to happen.
I just feel sorry for her. Tried to put her off when we spoke, but she wanted it.
I am not one to lie or misdirect.

Glompbot

02-09-2004, 12:37 AM

*nod* I know what you mean

Everytime I've broken up with someone else... I still spend days crying...:(

Nandragon

03-09-2004, 12:43 AM

Stop stealing quotes from my book, bitch.
I didn't know your momma posted here,

WiTT

03-09-2004, 03:23 AM

I didn't know your momma posted here,
Dad go home you're DRUNK!!!!

scathing

03-09-2004, 10:45 AM

I didn't know your momma posted here,

I didn't realise this (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19991114) rule wasn't actually being enforced.

Shame, really. I almost threw a street party the day you left.

Holster

03-09-2004, 10:58 AM

Nandragon

10-09-2004, 01:44 AM

tikdoph

10-09-2004, 02:19 AM

Nan, if there was any justice in the world, you'd have a life changing relationship with a bottle of sleeping pills.

scathing

10-09-2004, 11:44 AM

You must have known the only ones to show up would have been ur illogical trolling friends.

Pitty, i've never really seen CONTRIBUTE anything. Post away you snide shit slinging. arse wipe.

the topic was life changing relationships...
you must be to much of an arse wipe to have had a meaning relationship
OR your momma is posting here way to much to teach you such things.

You know, that's almost English. Maybe one day you'll have a life-changing experience, and you'll be able to string a lucid sentence together.

Even though you don't really say who you're addressing this to, from the "momma" comments again I assume its me.

Most people would assert that I contribute quite a bit. Less than I used to, unfortunately, due to the fact that more and more people like you are cropping up and really sapping my belief that humanity in general is an intelligent species, but it still happens.

However, when making replies you can only make a direct reply as good as the source material you're working on. Hence why, when I replied to Sapia's starting post in this thread, which brought up some valid assertions and an interesting point of discussion, it actually has content and advice

And, when I reply to anything you spew forth, it can contain nothing but the derision that you so richly deserve, since when anyone attempts to stumble through your witless attempts at language there's no other feeling that anyone with two working braincells and a modicum of taste can possibly have for you.

"Illogical", from you, is so rich in "irony" that Alanis Morrisette could sing about you. Like the lyrics in her song, though, its not ironic. Just bad luck that you found ZGeek in the first place, and after a much-appreciated hiatus decided to inflict us with your drivel again.

Unfortunately, my mother can't teach me in the same way your children learn, by observation, since my momma's not a shining example of what not to do. I just hope your children understand that they're supposed to be the opposite of you; the last thing the world need is more people like you.