What do I do?

[stevecai]

Ok, I am in a relationship at present with a girl who I would like to marry. I am a rather religious sort, and I would not take to entering into a relationship without a significant chance of it succeeding. In fact, I would say I am quite conservative and would only choose someone who I would marry.

Enter my girlfriend who was normal for a long time until she got hit by a dose of some hardcore Christianity. She wavers on our relationship and has done so twice because of Christian teaching on who you should marry. I am not of the same religion as her, let alone her particular denomination so she says:

1. How can she stay with someone who she knows is going to hell
2. How can she stay with someone who cannot help her further her religious beliefs.

Now, we have had two arguments (major ones) over this issue already, and it always happens when she reads up on marriage in the bible.

Guess what? She found some friend who wants to teach her about the bible. This friend has decided to talk to her about marriage. I begged her to do something else - Christianity is so broad, why focus on marriage AGAIN, for the third time in as many months.

She doesn't want to talk about it and is resolute on the issue. I am seriously considering breaking up with her if she brings up this marriage-religion crap again. I can't take the uncertainty anymore.

What do you think?

[dozer]

tell her to get the stupid ideas out of her head or its over

[jambo]

Download and watch (is downloading a sin? :p) the 1st and 2nd season of 'Penn and Teller: Bullshit'.

[stevecai]

easier said than done. she's like a lunatic when it comes to religion - you know those people who you try to avoid who come to your house? yeah... thats what she's like when it comes to religion. she wasn't like that until she went to this Christian camp. I loved her before that. Now sometimes I really don't know anymore. I don't know if I like her or hate her or in between.

Given she has recently told me she is revisiting the marriage topic, I resent her for it.

[sapience]

make her break up with you. just leave porn vids/dvds playing of women in bridal costumes taking it up the arse, that will bring her back to reality.
http://www.ravishedbride.com/

just make sure she DOES NOT read this http://www.cyberdespot.com/home.html?jesustricks/christian-sex.html&frames/left.html&frames/top.html

[spurr]

If your girlfriend can't or won't discuss the issue with you in a rational manner, with consideration for your point of view, I'd suggest you seriously consider dumping her. Short term pain = long term gain.

[tikdoph]

She has a right to her beliefs, just as you have a right to yours. Having said that, unless one of you changes said beliefs (yeah, riiight), the differences in religion will gradually create resentment and eventually rip the relationship apart.

Personally, it sounds like the damage has been done already. It's extremely unlikely for a relationship to last, let alone thrive, when religious differences create such a chasm between partners.

Sad to say, but if I were you, I'd start considering other options.

[kré]

kill her before it's too late.

i'm serious.

[FireHart]

Female Sun0l. Now with added seduction.

[tikdoph]

Female Sun0l. Now with added seduction.
Damn, between you, druid, and Urban, you Finns are on fire tonight. :D

[beowulf437]

Are you friends? Can you argue about something without taking it personally?Can say whatever the other person says or does is OK because you like them anyway? I have been married for 25 years and though it is often hard work it has great rewards as well. The length of a relationship is not based on lust or romance but wether or not in 25 years you can still carry out an interesting conversation. Sympathy bj's don't hurt either.

[HAL]

If i was in your position stevecai I would definatley be calling it quits. With such a barrier between two people it is impossible for the relationship to last a generous length of time.

[rin]

Ok, I am in a relationship at present with a girl who I would like to marry. I am a rather religious sort, and I would not take to entering into a relationship without a significant chance of it succeeding. In fact, I would say I am quite conservative and would only choose someone who I would marry.

Enter my girlfriend who was normal for a long time until she got hit by a dose of some hardcore Christianity. She wavers on our relationship and has done so twice because of Christian teaching on who you should marry. I am not of the same religion as her, let alone her particular denomination so she says:

1. How can she stay with someone who she knows is going to hell
2. How can she stay with someone who cannot help her further her religious beliefs.



What do you think?

i am catholic myself. i also am conservative in that i wouldn't enter a relationship with someone if i didn't see a potential for marriage.
i have had 2 serious boyfriends in the past which were catholic too. yes it makes things easier because you believe the same things, and the same moral values, but there are other things (obviously) which should be taken into consideration when deciding to marry them..

yes it can sometimes cause problems if beliefs clash, and it's hard deciding how you will bring up your children, etc. but ultimately, deciding to marry someone shows you accept them for who they are...

it is hard trying to talk about religion with a partner, particularly if you have different beliefs, but it's something that should be discussed and finalised before you get married. its better to sort the issues out now, rather than later...

[Cassa]

I'm going with the 'there's not much future in this' point of view.

This sounds like a pretty fundamental (no pun intended) difference between the two of you, and tikdoph is right when he says if one of you doesn't change, then forget it - two people speaking different languages will never be able to understand each other no matter how hard they try.

[Benwah]

One of two things will happen

1. She will grow out of it, just give her time and space.

2. She will continue down this path and you will both grow apart and the relationship will end.

Either way you have little say in the matter, a Women's heart is her own, just be yourself, back off and let her decide what she wants, if you try and force the situation to a head your only going to regret whatever the outcome is, as, the true outcome may have been lost in the excessive efforts you've made.

[MC SoD]

...I am a rather religious sort... Christianity....I am not of the same religion as her...
1. How can she stay with someone who she knows is going to hell



Does she believe you are going to hell because of the different religion? If so, what denomination is she? Is it one of those new cult ones? If it's an established-proper-Christian one, I think she should relearn the part about who goes to hell.

[durus]

There's a few things you can do here:
1. Break up with her. This is if you feel you don't want to do it any more. A bit of a last resort, but if things haven't been going so well, then it is not such a bad option, just make sure you know what you want before doing this.

2. Giver her space. This is an OK option, but you are essentially surrendering control of the relationship to her. This means that if she becomes interested in a christian guy in 6 months time and breaks up with you, you're going to feel like you just wasted 6 months of your life. If you do this, you may regret not trying to control how things went (i would).

3. Study a bit about Christianity. Spend some time to learn more about christianity. It will get her off your case, so you can enjoy the relationship again and also give you a chance to decide for yourself if you want to go down that path.

4. Bring things to a head. Try to open a calm discussion with her that DOES NOT have blame in it. If she gets defensive try to say some complements and make it clear you're not blaming her. I think it's important to both of you to understand where the relationship is going, where you want it to go and how it's going to get there. This is either going to result in a mutual break up (not so great, but you may be able to remain friends and get back together later, don't hold out hope if it goes this way though). The other result is you get the relationship back on track and things work out.

To be completely honest, I am a little pesimistic about this one. I was with a GF who constantly wanted me to change, even though I was working my ass off and being what everyone else considered to be a great boyfriend, she wanted more. In the end I broke up with her, because i wasn't going to be happy and i would stop making her happy at that point. Moral of the story: Don't change to make some one else happy, don't ask some one else to change to make you happy. These things only result in wasted time and someone being hurt more than they would otherwise have been. But really take option 3 and then 4. At least that way what ever happens you won't have regrets.

[kré]

1. Break up with her. This is if you feel you don't want to do it any more. A bit of a last resort,...

bullshit, this is the only option if you want to keep your sanity. don't waste your fucking energy.

[Benwah]

bullshit, this is the only option if you want to keep your sanity. don't waste your fucking energy.

I disagree, breaking up with someone takes energy, if you want to keep your sanity, just let the situation unfold, stop thinking about what could happen and just wait for it to happen, just be ready for whatever eventuates. If you try and fix it and it doesn't work out you'll regret it, sure relationships take work, but in this instance Cray has kinda hit the nail on the head with the whole waste of energy thing, just don't waste energy on pointless questioning and effort, She is going to feel how she feels, nothing you can do will change that, just put on the radio, recline the seat a bit and wait for it to all happen, and when it does, deal with it.

[Glompbot]

One thing I have learnt...

NEVER expect another person to change for you. It won't happen.

If you are unable to discuss the matter rationally with each other and BOTH willingly come to a compromise... you're best off leaving now.

[stevecai]

Thanks for all the advice, although I personally do not want to think it will end. Maybe its just me, but part of my personality and my own religious beliefs dictates to me that I do not start/end relationships lightly. It takes a long time for me to decide and this is my first girlfriend, and I am her first boyfriend.

No, I am not 16 or something, I am actually 21 years old so don't worry about wasting your time on some kid. Its quite hard for me because I never intended to meet anyone so early - I know that I will be 23 when we have our two year anniversary, for instance. I'd say its borderline when working out whether I am some sort of dreamer or not.

However, we did make a promise to eachother, with God as our witness (please don't think its corny, this is actually true!) that we would marry eachother, or at least I would ask her to marry me and she would say yes in two years time. As a result we do work towards that goal.

I actually agree with the general sentiment in one area - neither of us will change. We have already agreed that children are out of the question.

As a bit of an update I spoke with her today. I told her I was unhappy with her behaviour and it led to an awkward situation with me, my friend, her and her friend where the latter two left. I since spoke to her on the phone and expressed this sentiment - namely, neither of us will change.

I rang her and we agreed that given the outcome of our relationship is fixed, this would make no difference. However, I told her I do not want to know anything about the marriage topic other than the roles/duties of a husband or wife. I also do not want to talk to her about who will go to hell. Those are our agreed terms for future.

In terms of her religious beliefs; She just calls herself a "Christian" or non-denominational. However, if she HAD to choose she would be Protestant. Her religious upbringing is interesting because no one in her family is Christian other than her. She went to a primary school where she was made a catholic during their scripture classes (even though she didn't know what was going on) and later in high school her history teacher told her about Christianity so she started practicing it in year 12. In uni, she joined a group called "campus bible study" which is basically a religious group which gets people involved through social events and then gets them to learn about the Bible.

She doesn't go to Church because she feels she is "not ready for it" or "not at that level" which is strange to me but I guess its her perogative. The problem with not going to Church, in my opinion, is that people from Campus Bible Study often tell her things like "if you don't do this, you are going against God. Either you go with God and do this, or go against God and don't do it" which is, I think, unfair. However, as it is part of the Christian faith I am not at liberty to question it.

At a personal level, beyond religion, we get along brilliantly. Our personalities match perfectly.

In light of this, do you all think that your sense of forboding has waned? What do you think? Did I do the right thing?

(sorry this is so long)

[stevecai]

"The problem with not going to Church, in my opinion, is that people from Campus Bible Study often tell her things like "if you don't do this, you are going against God. Either you go with God and do this, or go against God and don't do it" which is, I think, unfair. However, as it is part of the Christian faith I am not at liberty to question it."

I made an error in this paragraph. I meant to say I think the problem with not going to Church is not being able to meet experienced peopel and be exposed to broader views (though this is just speculation on my part). The second point about what the Campus Bible Study people tell her is for me to express that I think its unfair to teach someone the religion in that way - but if its part of the religion and she has accepted it then I guess thats the way it is

[MC SoD]

"In terms of her religious beliefs; She just calls herself a "Christian" or non-denominational. However, if she HAD to choose she would be Protestant. Her religious upbringing is interesting because no one in her family is Christian other than her. She went to a primary school where she was made a catholic during their scripture classes (even though she didn't know what was going on) and later in high school her history teacher told her about Christianity so she started practicing it in year 12. In uni, she joined a group called "campus bible study" which is basically a religious group which gets people involved through social events and then gets them to learn about the Bible.

She doesn't go to Church because she feels she is "not ready for it" or "not at that level" which is strange to me but I guess its her perogative. The problem with not going to Church, in my opinion, is that people from Campus Bible Study often tell her things like "if you don't do this, you are going against God. Either you go with God and do this, or go against God and don't do it" which is, I think, unfair. However, as it is part of the Christian faith I am not at liberty to question it.

(I also read your amendment of the above paragraph...)

Sorry to nitpick, but to be "made Catholic" she had to be baptised, and at that age, she'd have to have parents and godparents present to do that, so I think that's not quite right.

The problem with not going to church is, reading the Bible isn't much good if you don't understand it's context (which has been said in this thread) and haven't learnt it properly. I don't think a lot of her beliefs would be supported/recognised by most Christian faiths (including Protestant churches... i know she's not exactly Protestant, but Catholics would be the same and other Christians as well).

A long time ago, for instance, Catholics used to believe that they had to marry Catholics but that's no longer the case because people are actually educated about the religion now.
Christianity usually supposes she follows the teachings of Christ, who spent a lot of time saying anyone who is a good person and loves others etc can go to Heaven, and anybody who repents before death will not go to Hell etc, so in true Christian understanding, unless you've stabbed someone to death, you're probably not at any great risk of eternal damnation.

[stevecai]

what exactly is the religious rule with respect to marriage then? For Christians that is.

[stevecai]

oh yeah, she was baptised etc. Her parents consented but they are of no religion. Her mother thought that she would learn discipline through Christianity and thus allowed it.

[MC SoD]

what exactly is the religious rule with respect to marriage then? For Christians that is.

Well, with RC'ism, you can marry whoever, and can get married in a church regardless of the partner's religion if s/he is willing to marry in the church (and you are baptised). Or you can marry out of the church, but then it doesn't exactly count. You could find a lot of priests who would marry you with another celebrant, for instance a Rabbi of a Sheikh, if the other sides were all happy to do it (not sure what the Rabbi/Sheikh thinks of this).

Similar stuff for Anglicans, they are pretty easy going. No real idea about other denominations.

Edit: Corrected in a later post (the part about Rabbis etc). (Later post also has links, have not verified other claims in here).

[diggy]

One thing I have learnt...

NEVER expect another person to change for you. It won't happen.

If you are unable to discuss the matter rationally with each other and BOTH willingly come to a compromise... you're best off leaving now.


so true sapia
stevecai, i went through the same thing as you, only my partner was not as devoutly christian as yours seems to have become. i am catholic myself, but i really dislike the whole evangelism thing when it comes to christians. my partner (well ex-partner) found religion through a friend (got her "calling" so to speak). anyway to cut a long story short, she tried to get me to go to her church, saying how important it was to her and how if i loved her i would go for her, sex was not even discussed anymore because apparently we could go to hell if we had pre marital sex (which had been in our relationship for about 3 years). i stuck around for a while somehow but in the end i called it off. you can't argue with religious fanatics. i tried to understand her point of view but till this day i cannot for the love of me figure out what was so wrong about me being a different religion as her and how something like that can negate what had been a loving relationship. my advice to you would be, cut loose now if you feel your beliefs are being chaned against your will.
my two cents

[stevecai]

diggy, your relationship sounds very familiar except my gf doesn't pressure me to become Christian. I realised that my chance of converting her is about as high as hers of converting me, and thats pretty much non-existent. We are both resigned to that fact and work with it now. So I don't feel my beliefs being changed at all which is good.

She might want to have children, but we have both agreed that will not happen. Even if my children are the same religion as me, if their mum isn't its not good enough for me.

Son of Dad, are these rules written somewhere or just custom?

[MC SoD]

Custom. You could perhaps find some catechism books, or releases by the Vatican if you need something in writing.

[diggy]

ahhh
more power to you then. i'm glad things are working out slowly
=)

[stevecai]

Ah, because I remember her telling me there is no rule in the Bible which is explicit on this point, but there are obvious inferences - for example, there is a rule to the effect that you should be with someone who will not detract from your personal faith, but preferably one who will enhance it (is that right?)

Can I just ask, diggy, did your ex go to a Church or did make all these efforts as part of a separate group?

[MC SoD]

For Catholics, which we can use as a benchmark, you have to have permission (the Catholic one). Permission depends on the Catholic person promising to remain Catholic, and the other person knowing that the Catholic one has made that promise.

"Nevertheless, if a Catholic party contracts marriage with a non-Catholic party of an Eastern rite, the canonical form of the celebration must be observed for liceity only; for validity, however, the presence of a sacred minister is required and the other requirements of law are to be observed."

And this Vatican publication actually says you can't do the thing with a Rabbi/Sheikh, although it has been done.
"It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P41.HTM

[dilligaf]

Mate, this is the best bit of advice i have ever got "Don't change you life for anyone."

[stevecai]

Son of Dad: Thats quite interesting actually. Is the rule the same for people who aren't Catholic? Particularly Protestants?

[MC SoD]

OKay, well, we use Protestant to mean any Christian who isn't RC or Orthodox, so Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian etc etc.

They are just *pretend* religions ;) started for silly reasons like the King didn't want to be below the Pope hehe (my pretend religion theory is as popular as my not believing in ADHD or my not believing that people have asthma - I believe in asthma. But I think most people who claim to have it are just unfit).

Anyway, because Church of England for instance started up because they didn't want to be under the Pope, they wont follow any Vatican rules (obviously). Generally though, they are more progressive. Like in having female ministers and allowing ministers to be married. So I would think they'd be more progressive on things like mixed marriages, but I don't know where you'd check, unless you just pop into a church and ask. I know they're cool about marrying Catholics, cause lots of CofE marry RC's and it's ok. Not sure what else is ok though.

[Deimos]

What religion are you, stevecai? It could be that your beliefs are, intrinsically, not all that different from hers (given that the general basis for most religions is the same) and perhaps if you explained this to her she might be able to understand where you are coming from a bit more.

Chances are the bible study group she is part of is affiliated with the nationwide (global?) group that (in South Australia) is called the Evangelical Union (I'm not sure what it's called elsewhere). They operate at my uni and they do a lot of publicity and have quite a few members. Personally I find evangelism to be quite a scary thing because, to me, it appears as though it is only a few steps away from fanaticism, which can be very dangerous. I wish you the best of luck...

[tikdoph]

Firstly, in regards to the promise you made each other... a word of advice... don't make a promise you can't keep. :)

Anyway, I'd hardly call the RCC a benchmark of Christianity. They are less about the Bible and more about tradition than probably any other religion of Christendom. I once had a Catholic tell me "I don't believe in the Bible. I just do whatever the Church tells me". I look at basic Catholic teachings and what he said pretty much seems to be representative of many Catholic's way of doing things.

In reference to the question you asked about Christians marrying someone of the same beliefs, it gets down to a section in the New Testament where Christians are told to marry "only in the Lord". Basically, Christians were advised that they could marry anyone they liked... so long as it was another Christian.

If your girlfriend hasn't said anything specifically about marrying "only in the Lord", then it sounds to me like her knowledge is pretty limited. You have to realise why Christians were given that advice... because marrying someone of a different faith could have weakened their spirituality. Given that two thousand years ago in the Middle East (Hell, even today... especially today!) religion was such an integral way of life, it isn't surprising that they were given that advice as a way of protecting their faith. Remember, Christianity was only a new religion, so the apostles had to do what they could to prevent the Christian congregation from being corrupted by outside religious influences. Things are obviously a little different today, because society (at least in Australia) is a lot more tolerant. Christianity is no longer a fledgling religion (and has already been corrupted about as much as it can be anyway), so the advice isn't going to be as much of a protection today as it was back then.

That being said, you need to ask your girlfriend if she really thinks that your beliefs will affect hers. Have they so far? It sounds to me like the answer is 'no'. Therefore, what reason does she have for thinking that will change in the future? None!

As a guy, your tendency will probably be to appeal to her on a logical level. Being that she's a woman, that's probably not going to work. Therefore, you have to appeal to her on an emotional level. You sound like a tolerant guy who happily accepts and loves her for who she is. So, you need to help her to realise that nothing is going to change that. Tell her that you love her for who she is inside, not for who she prays to. Tell her that her beliefs have shaped her into the woman she is today, the woman you love, and that you wouldn't change that for anything in the world. Tell her that, in the same way, your beliefs have shaped you into the kind of man who will love her and cherish her for the rest of her life. Obviously, you need to use your own words, but I'm sure you get the idea. Just say it from the heart and she is sure to get the message.

She could marry someone with the exact same beliefs as hers, but I somehow doubt that he would be as committed and dedicated to her as you seem to be. The sooner she realises that, the better.

I hope things work out for the both of you. It sounds like you've both put a lot of hard work into the relationship and hopefully it will continue to pay off.

[Asmodeus]

yeah, ive seen some of the victims of these bible camps. basically comes down to peer pressure with rudimentary rain washing. no really.

Dont change yourself for anyone else.. good words to live by.. be true to yourself first, then find someone else who can tolerate you.. thats the way to do it.

my advice, get her naked, put her on her stomach, blast her a good one in teh ass, cum all over her back, then roll over, pul out a satanic bible that you bookmarked at a random middle page and pretend to read. if she says anything about it, just repeat "Judge not, lest ye be judged" and wait for her to leave.

fun, simple, and you get some free butt sex out of it.

[wolfpac181]

Does she hate your friends?
Hate your hobbies?
Doesn't like the clothes you wear/style?

[kré]

tell her that if she goes through her life without spending her every moment trying to bring you into christianity then she's not being a 'true' christian. see how she feels about that.

[stevecai]

Son of Dad, clearly you are Catholic ;)

Deimos, I am a Muslim. I think that the group she is in is similar to the Evangelical Union because they continually pressure her to evangelise and to go to Church. She isn't totally comfortable with it, but she is told by them (and believes) that failure to do so is like failing to follow God - or even going against God.

Tikdoph, you are right about appealing on an emotional level. Logic doesn't work when you talk about religion to a girl, though usually she is quite logical. I did, however try your latter line - about how I love her for who she is (as she has been moulded by her religion) just as she does for me (as I have been moulded by mine). After saying that I suggested we restrict our religious discourse to which she told me that as she gets older she plans to do more and more with the Church and I would thus be excluded from significant chunks of her life.

I do a lot of stuff at the Mosque NOW so I know that this is not true. I somehow doubt that the Church will make her work 24/7 and I know how much normal people volunteer and its not as bad as she makes it out. She hasn't been to Church before so I think its just her imagination at the moment.

Though, telling her about the underlying rationale of her religion (about the need to keep Christianity alive whilst it was a fledgling religion) doesn't work on her. She does not question, just obeys. Islam is completely different. You understand the underlying rationale and thus you can adapt it to your life - thus is remains relevant irrespective of time. Explaining this to her just offends her.

I don't think I'll do the ass idea, Asmodeus, because she doesn't really touch me anymore. I was at a party with her, and at first (before her Christianity went as big as it is now) she would be quite affectionate. Now random girls kiss me more than she does. She doesn't touch me. Its pretty crap actually.

She likes my friends, I think. We get along with respect to everything, just not religion. Her religion was good for a while, but after that Christian camp organised by campus bible study she came out weird. I dare not ask her to be a "true" Christian in your sense, cray, that would be bad for me.

Hmm, today the touching issue really bugged me. Is this normal? She used to try to hold my hand before, now she doesn't even do that. I reckon I'd get more from FLIRTING with a random girl than I would from my current gf (not that I am intending to do that).

[lostreality]

i still say poke her in the ass with ya wonka.

[tikdoph]

The gap between the both of you is clearly going to get even wider. If she's too stupid to see what she's losing, then you're better off without her. Somewhere out there is a girl who will accept you and love you for who you are. Don't doubt that for a moment. Until you meet that girl, pick up the pieces, dust yourself off, keep your chin up, stay true to yourself, and enjoy life.

It sounds like you've really done your best, which is all anyone can do. If and when the day finally comes when the two of you go your seperate ways, at least you'll be able to honestly say that you did your best. Having said that, I'll restate my original advice... start considering other options.

And not that I think you'll need it, but good luck. :)

[durus]

It seems to me that she is searching for an excuse to end the relationship.
It seems that she isn't physically comfortable with you any more, but she doesn't want to be the "bad" person after you've been such a nice guy. Thus the excuse thing.
Make both your lives easier and break up with her.
There's a better girl than this one for you. You just have to find her.

[Lurgen]

Rather than read the entire thread, I'm going out on a limb here and offering advice based on your first post...

Marriage (or any relationship for that matter) is based on mutual enjoyment of each other. The whole package is relevant here - do you like each other physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? Can you sit together and not talk and still feel comfortable? Do you talk about things that interest you together?

Not sharing the same beliefs is all right - my GF and I disagree on a lot of things. Some of my most satisfying conversations with friends are about things we don't agree on. I deliberately sparked off a major argument in the car on the way home from skiing last week with my best mate, just for the challenge of us arguing a point. It wasn't an angry argument, just an enthusiastic debate.

The problem comes when you have different opinions but can't live with the fact that neither person will ever win. She's religious, and won't tolerate you not believing the same things she does. You can't/won't (and probably shouldn't) change your beliefs to match hers. So the problem here comes in how you deal with this. In what I believe is a healthy relationship you simply agree to disagree and move on. That doesn't sound likely though. Unhealthy relationships (I'm thinking of one friend who did this and suffered big-time) often result in one person pretending to come over to the other persons side. That'd suck.

Basically, if you can't deal with conflicting beliefs and opinions without it turning into an argument you are either a) not ready for marriage, or b) not suited enough to marry each other. Sorry, but that's the way it looks from here.

Remember that marriage is a long-term proposition. If you're religious and want to follow the "rules", it's a life-long thing. If you're a bit more like the masses these days, it's still a long-term (and costly) exercise that is a pain in the arse to get out of. Either way, you only want to pursue it if you're right for each other. Twenty years of hating each other because you don't believe in the same god isn't something I'd recommend.

[Lurgen]

tell her that if she goes through her life without spending her every moment trying to bring you into christianity then she's not being a 'true' christian. see how she feels about that.

Reasonable point, although this sort of thing approaches "name calling". Still, most of the non-psycho derivatives of religion encourage tolerance. Tolerating other peoples beliefs is a part of that.

You don't really want to get to the point where you read the stupid book just to find ways to demonstrate how wrong she is. That's not the way to treat the person you love.

[Lurgen]

One thing I have learnt...

NEVER expect another person to change for you. It won't happen.

If you are unable to discuss the matter rationally with each other and BOTH willingly come to a compromise... you're best off leaving now.

I almost believe that changing for somebody else just can't be done. You are who you are, the end result of many years of experience. It takes a lot to change that, more force than anybody but yourself can bring to bear.

[Asmodeus]

dude, from what i've read here, seems like its time to break it off and you're just looking here for validation here. time to scrounge up whats left of your balls and do the deed, and move on. theres more fish in teh sea, and its time to land a new one before your "hook" isn't what it used to be. :banana:

[Reprobate]

end the relationship, you decide how.

take some time out, get over her.

move on.

[RASPUTIN]

Nah fuck breaking up. Think about the sex. Religeon is religeon. They all basically worship some hidden all powerful entity which has no factual basis only faith and most of thems basic thing is to be good to others and such. From what I am reading you obviously get along very well, you love each other and that is the main thing in relationships. As a male you will find as you get older that when a woman sets her mind on something you have no chance of changing it so just do the easy thing and join her one. All too easy.

God is god so if it will shut her up just do it. Marriage is one big compromise. You join her religeon then when you want to play computer games all night or go out and get smashed with your mates you will have something to hold over her forever. Its a win win situation :)