A creative writing forum thing?

[Something Fast]

I know this probably sounds a bit childish, but what about a creative writing forum, for posting any poetry or fiction you attempt to do, and things of that sort?

[s3raph]

I think you're missing the point of this site. We get to criticize other peoples work while not leaving ourselves open to criticism. If we have a creative writing forum then the whole system breaks down.

[Reprobate]

If you're writing quality fiction, submit it to magazines.

Don't rely on others to tell you if you're good or not.

I've had plenty of stuff published in the mid to late 90's. A fair proportion of it had it's financial rewards.

But then I found zgeek (in late 2000... despite what my join date says), and my priorities changed.

So run! Run away while you can!

[Timformation]

I don't think that's "childish" at all, and a great idea.

[thingy]

There's been a fair bit of that lately. It'd be a very quiet forum, but still something worth considering. It'd save having it ruined by fucktards in general.

Oh, and Tim - love the avatar.

[Bifrost]

If you're writing quality fiction, submit it to magazines.

Don't rely on others to tell you if you're good or not.

I've had plenty of stuff published in the mid to late 90's. A fair proportion of it had it's financial rewards.

But then I found zgeek (in late 2000... despite what my join date says), and my priorities changed.

So run! Run away while you can!I disagree...The point is, if you don't show your work to anyone, then how do you know what is quality fiction?...It's impossible to look at your own work and say "wow that's great!" or "wow that's shit!" unless you haven't looked at it in a few weeks (or months)...And I can honestly say, the day that you read some of your old work and say "wow, that's so good" is the day you need to start writing more often. You should always be improving...

Besides, if you're writing science fiction or fantasy there are a very low number of traditional publications to which you can submit. IMO the internet represents the a far better outlet for getting one's work noticed.

Of course, I have been writing a Science Fiction novel seriously for about 2 years now and I have yet to publish a word on the web...Such is my paranoia about my intellectual property. I have published some shorter stuff once upon a time, but I haven't tried to get anything more in a polished enough state to go up since I've been working on my novel...

When I have completed my book to a state with which I'm satisfied and have had it edited, I will be publishing some short stories related to the book and I'll build a website to promote it etc...

But, back on topic - I have a lot of writing that I do and have done that is not related to my current novel, so I think a creative writing forum would be awesome...

Fuzzy Dice once posted up some work for critique and I think the majority of the responses were good feedback (even though there was some senseless flamage) and I think Fuzzy got some value from that thread. Although I haven't asked Fuzzy.

[Zan]

I was vehemently opposed to the creation of the 'Relationships' subfora, but it seemed to turn out OK. I think that a 'Creative Writing' forum would be a great idea. So long as it was nazi-moderated for flames and off-topic comments - and a moderator who can tell the difference between a hardarse critic with excellent opinions and useful advice, and some 'tough-nut' who enjoys bashing people's work.

I'm suprisingly 'for' this idea.

:edit:

I nominate Bifrost for moderator of said forum.
I also nominate Timformation.

Now all we require is a forum.

We could always invade 'comics', and pretend that our image-editing software is broken.

[kré]

it won't work simply because there's less than 15 people on the entire forum who have a decent grasp on the english language.

[Reprobate]

I disagree...The point is, if you don't show your work to anyone, then how do you know what is quality fiction?...


I disagree with the reason for your disagreement (i don't disagree with you disageeing though... okay, i'll stop there before it starts to sound ridiculous).

while it is good to get feedback you have opened another can of worms with your paranoia about intellectual property.

i think it (your alleged paranoia) is justified. chances are, if you have an excellent plot line or twist in the tail, someone might steal it. maybe not even intentionally. it'll sit dormant in the sub-conscious of someone who has read it, and they might regurgitate it later. making it feel fresh (with a somewhat vomity smell) but feeling completely original nonetheless.

i had had work published and THEN went and done some writing courses at a community college. it was interesting to see a core group of people who done course after course and dreaming of seeing their work published and seeing their name as the by-line but they never worked up the guts to actually submit anything.

i done about three different course in 18 months. one was a full weekend, another went for a day and another went for about 9 weeks. one such course (the weekend one) had me in a class with about 11 others. i was the only one to have been published. they all asked me to bring some of my stuff for the next day. i was revered like a God.

the only difference between me and the majority of them was that i was "dumb" enough to send in my stuff to magazines without first thinking how i would feel about rejection. they had as much talent as me, if not more so.

i've kept most of my published writings. and i've even kept all the rejection slips. that's a huge pile i'll tell ya what. for some reason it didn't faze me. i figured that if there's a million people out there who are submitting stuff to magazines then there's going to be a huge percentage of them who will feel hurt about being rejected. so as well as talent you need persistence. as well as a tough skin.

if a person feels they need online critique then do so. though i'll vouch for the satisfaction one gets from being published in a magazine or newspaper. it was a hobby, but one that also had it's financial rewards.

if anything if people would share the names and addresses of magazines and newspapers that publish creative fiction as well as other tips and hints and also links to webpages that have some quality information then i'd be checking that sort of stuff out. i'd even throw in a few too.

as for critiquing my work, well i'd actually post stories that i've HAD published, rather than stuff that is a work in progress. you'd all be welcome to rip it shreds because it's been a long time since i've collected the cheque for it and spent it :)


It's impossible to look at your own work and say "wow that's great!" or "wow that's shit!" unless you haven't looked at it in a few weeks (or months)...

I can usually do that the very next day.

i don't know if it's just me, but when i've read my work that been published, and i'm talking about stuff that was well written enough by myself to be spared the editors knife and published as is, it doesn't even feel like i wrote it. it feels like i'm reading someone elses words.

maybe this side effect of being able to distance myself from my work has strengthened my ability to be ruthless when it comes to editing.

and i look forward to hearing sometime in the future news of a published novel by Bifrost. And you better be sure to have zgeek.com written in the acknowledgements or 'special thanks to' :D

[Benwah]

Can it include puns? *just kidding* sounds like a great idea. I'll pop my head in now and again to give my 2 cents*

*may or may not be worth a whole 2 cents

[Timformation]

I dunno how such things are decided, but if it does go forward, I'd be happy to volunteer to moderate. I have a Master's degree in English, am published myself, and a licensed editor - so I am qualified to be said "Nazi"

[Pirate]

Ok, I like the idea and I will set up the forum. I'm gonna have the forum as moderated posts so it doesn't get full of shit. Tim and Bifrost would you be cool looking after it? PM me so we can discuss.

[Timformation]

PM sent!

[Fitty]

Sounds like an awesome idea, I would welcome it with open arms.

[kré]

I dunno how such things are decided, but if it does go forward, I'd be happy to volunteer to moderate. I have a Master's degree in English, am published myself, and a licensed editor - so I am qualified to be said "Nazi"

no period at the end, you lose! :p

[kleph]

i am in. after teaching english for the last year or so i can provide some technical input that might be of assistance (rather than just the critical bent this seems to be going).

[SOC]

I dunno how such things are decided, but if it does go forward, I'd be happy to volunteer to moderate. I have a Master's degree in English, am published myself, and a licensed editor - so I am qualified to be said "Nazi"
My god, you used the word "licensed" correctly! But what is an "editing licence"??? I'm a professional newspaper and magazine sub-editor (and occasional production editor) and I don't have a licence ... does this mean I have to leave my profession??? :(

[Timformation]

Here in Canada, editors are usually members (its not required, but it helps), of the Editor's Association of Canada.

There is a fairly rigourous testing process you have to go through to join - but your chances of getting any work without it are nil.

How's it work where you are?

[kleph]

it is open season in the u.s. if you have rudimentary command of the english language you are qualified to be a journalist or editor. sometimes, you don't even need that.

journalism organizations have fought efforts for a certification system under the argument it would impede freedom of speech. but, on the dowside, we suffer a horrible lack of educated, trained journalists.

and the prohibitions exist in other ways. if you dont have a college degree you aint gonna get on at a major daily. if you dont have a j-school degree you aint gonna get on at a decent major daily.

note how this "unofficial" practice essentially eliminates a huge sector of he population from being part of the process of dissiminating information. because, sadly, when we look at this disparity in the u.s. we only see it in terms of color.

[SOC]

Here in Canada, editors are usually members (its not required, but it helps), of the Editor's Association of Canada.

There is a fairly rigourous testing process you have to go through to join - but your chances of getting any work without it are nil.

How's it work where you are?

I trained in Australia, but now live and work in London. When I started out most newspapers offered cadetships (usually 3 years) after which you became a graded journalist, usually a reporter. Sub-editors are usually recruited from among the ranks of reporters, usually people who've been in the game for a while. Now, though, it's almost impossible to get a job in hournalism in Australia without a degree of some sort - and not always a media degree. I'm not sure how it works here in the UK - I arrived here with a pretty decent CV and just rang around the newspapers and magazines and got casual shifts ... been doing that for 18 months now, and it's a pretty decent way to work.

Tim, what sort of editor are you? Oh, and I'm happy to lend a hand in the writing forum, too.

[locust]

journalism organizations have fought efforts for a certification system under the argument it would impede freedom of speech. but, on the dowside, we suffer a horrible lack of educated, trained journalists.


I'm sure that if there was any sort of professional journalist's association in the US, major media outlets would summarily ignore it. Media is big business, and their business is entertainment. As far as I can tell, the most widely read papers and most widely watched programmes in the US, feature personnel chosen for their appeal to the product's target demographic, not any sort of journalistic qualification or integrity.

Bill O'Reilly and Paula Zahn aren't sitting where they are because they're brilliant investigative journalists.

[Timformation]

Tim, what sort of editor are you? Oh, and I'm happy to lend a hand in the writing forum, too.

Actually, I don't do much editing anymore. After uni, I published a few pieces, and then got into manuscript editing as an independent. From there I did a bunch of magazine work, until I got my first online editing position.

Now, I earn my keep doing design and coding - funny how things turn out.

[kleph]

I'm sure that if there was any sort of professional journalist's association in the US, major media outlets would summarily ignore it. Media is big business, and their business is entertainment. As far as I can tell, the most widely read papers and most widely watched programmes in the US, feature personnel chosen for their appeal to the product's target demographic, not any sort of journalistic qualification or integrity.

Bill O'Reilly and Paula Zahn aren't sitting where they are because they're brilliant investigative journalists.

i wish i could roundly refute your argument but i cannot. the primary organization - the society of professional journalists - is kind of like the chess club in high school. the columbia school of journalism has clout but it is the kind of clout that when people attend conferences they all bob their heads in agreement but completely ignore everything being said when they walk out the door.

colombia also is responsible for awarding the pulitzer prizes which warp journalism in the opposite way than the phenomena of the media celebrity. papers fall over their dicks trying to put together a pulitzer worthy project and completely forget to cover the actual problems that their community needs to be reported. all so the publishers can get together at the end of the year and see who will be wearing a shit eating grin this time.

[Bifrost]

I have no professional writing nor editing experience, though I do have a Bachelor of Arts in Professional Writing...Not that this particularly qualifies me any more than Bill the Garbo, but it's something...

I have, on the other hand been writing seriously for around 2 years and semi-seriously for around 5 to 10...Oh and I have also met and discussed my writing with Terry Pratchett which was very helpful...But that was over 5 years ago and my writing has evolved somewhat...

I have only been published in the Uni rag and online, so I don't consider myself a published writer...The stories I write tend to be epic novel-length pieces not really suited to the magazine and short-story circuit, so I haven't really had anything polished enough and small enough to submit...

I also have something of an emotional attachment to using the ellipsis incorrectly, but generally only in emails and online...In my writing I try to punctuate at least semi-correctly. ;)

[Reprobate]

I have also met and discussed my writing with Terry Pratchett which was very helpful...

reputation points for meeting Terry Pratchett, and I don't even mean the Ninja variety.

[kleph]

so, what is the status of this forum?

[SOC]

reputation points for meeting Terry Pratchett, and I don't even mean the Ninja variety.
I've met Stephen King and Douglas Adams ... do they count? :D

[Pirate]

Aaaaannnnd we're done. The forum is up Bifrost and Timformation are mods. Be good.

[Bifrost]

Yes, Sir!

*Salutes*

*Goes to forum to prepare for the barbarian hordes*

[Reprobate]

I've met Stephen King and Douglas Adams ... do they count? :D

Most likely, but probably not as well as The Count.

[kleph]

gentlemen, start you word processors.

[SOC]

gentlemen, start you word processors.
It's YOUR!!! :mad:

[kleph]

its a typo!

alright kiddies, the first rule of writing: every editor needs an older brother who is a pimp so they would have someone to look up to.

[Thyrd]

But I am the older brother....dang!