The Iraq war. Who are the cunts?

[Pirate]

Evening all.

[darns]

I won't vote. Coalition soldiers were sent there to fight by their governments. They were just following orders. But by disposing Saddam, they rightfully did the entire Iraq a lot of good. Their government fucked up on how to manage Iraq without Saddam.

The "freedom fighters" are not terrorists. When their country is being invaded and occupied, they have every right and reason to go out and fight for their own independence. Many "democracies" in this world have gone through this stage, including America. We don't call the losing side in the civil war, terrorists. Granted, there are some true terrorists that took this as an opportunity to create some havoc and have crossed borders into Iraq to fight their holy war, but majority of the fighters are simply looking to reclaim their own country.

[s3raph]

America has been a complete cock at every turn over Iraq. All the participatory governments in the invasion have lied, and mismanaged the entire issue. However I still think that the "freedom fighters" are the cocks. Look at Germany, and Japan. After being occupied after world war 2 they now have 2 of the most powerful economies on earth. The Iraqi's while they can't be too chuffed about being occupied by the West are really doing more harm to their nation than good by attacking infrastructure and are being complete assholes by doing suicide attacks on civilians. The US could have played the occupation a lot better but the Iraqi's are worse so I'm afraid my vote has to go against the Iraqi's.

[badpauly]

America has been a complete cock at every turn over Iraq. All the participatory governments in the invasion have lied, and mismanaged the entire issue. However I still think that the "freedom fighters" are the cocks. Look at Germany, and Japan. After being occupied after world war 2 they now have 2 of the most powerful economies on earth. The Iraqi's while they can't be too chuffed about being occupied by the West are really doing more harm to their nation than good by attacking infrastructure and are being complete assholes by doing suicide attacks on civilians. The US could have played the occupation a lot better but the Iraqi's are worse so I'm afraid my vote has to go against the Iraqi's.
The problem with your response, and that of a lot of people, is that is thinks with money. Money isn't everything.

Sure, post invasion, Iraq may be a financially great place, with a booming economy, but there will be very little culture or history left. That is what the people are fighting for.

Amerikkka wants the Coca-Colanisation of the world. Each country a smaller version of itself. And it doesn't care about history or culture, it just cares about the money to be made.

That, and the fact that most countries back that idea, is the downfall of western civilisation.

Makes me sad.

[Natfu]

Can I vote twice? They're all a buncha cunts.

[s3raph]

The problem with your response, and that of a lot of people, is that is thinks with money. Money isn't everything.

Sure, post invasion, Iraq may be a financially great place, with a booming economy, but there will be very little culture or history left. That is what the people are fighting for.

Amerikkka wants the Coca-Colanisation of the world. Each country a smaller version of itself. And it doesn't care about history or culture, it just cares about the money to be made.

That, and the fact that most countries back that idea, is the downfall of western civilisation.

Makes me sad.

I can get where you're coming from here, but I think you might be exagerating a little. I again point towards Germany and Japan and while they are westernised, they do still have their own distinct cultures aswell. Westernisation is going everywhere, with or without the US armies help. Vietnam lost 3 million people in their war against capitalism, but Saigon still has its very own KFC now around 30 years after the end of the war. Aswell as that lets face it; America went in for the wrong reasons and lied every step of the way, but Iraq is better off without Saddam. The trade sanctions against them are lifted, and eventually they might have a democracy aswell as the McDonalds that they were gonna get even if McDonalds had to build it in a bunker and put snipers on the roof.

[Scumbag]

I dont agree with your Japan / Germany comparisons at all. I liken Iraqi "insurgents" to the French underground resistance fighters of WWII. I dont buy all the propoganda bullshit lines about "they hate freedom" or "they want to bring down the western world" either... Shit like that is pumped out en mass to make the governments work seem justified...


You cannot blame a man for fighting for his own homeland when its invaded.. Although Id prefer if they took a more "passive resistance" approach, for their own sake!

[metalhed00]

Can I vote twice? They're all a buncha cunts.

Agreed! :spingo:

[Nodbugger]

The problem with your response, and that of a lot of people, is that is thinks with money. Money isn't everything.

Sure, post invasion, Iraq may be a financially great place, with a booming economy, but there will be very little culture or history left. That is what the people are fighting for.

Amerikkka wants the Coca-Colanisation of the world. Each country a smaller version of itself. And it doesn't care about history or culture, it just cares about the money to be made.

That, and the fact that most countries back that idea, is the downfall of western civilisation.

Makes me sad.

Read my signature dumb ass.

You lie.

none of the coalition countries of lied.

And the people fighting American soldiers are terrorists. we are not an occupying force. We are simply there. Iraq is a sovereign nation. They have their own government. They are still Iraq. And the Iraqis will always be Iraqis.

The only difference is they will be a democracy. And any Iraqi that willingly fights the US deserves death.

[Nodbugger]

But since you fuck heads use the petty rep system, my signature no longer shows. Man you guys are children.

[Enos]

Read my signature dumb ass.

You lie.

none of the coalition countries of lied.

And the people fighting American soldiers are terrorists. we are not an occupying force. We are simply there. Iraq is a sovereign nation. They have their own government. They are still Iraq. And the Iraqis will always be Iraqis.

The only difference is they will be a democracy. And any Iraqi that willingly fights the US deserves death.

Jesus, take your pills and calm down. I can't see any relevance between the quoted post and yours. Where does Pauly mention the coalition lying?

Your army is in their country and they do what you say. If that's not occupying a country then god help them if you actually decide to do it properly...

[Bostonmess]

But since you fuck heads use the petty rep system, my signature no longer shows. Man you guys are children.hahahahaha:D Nyaaa nyaaa nya nyaaaa nyaaaa! :p

[m0loch]

Read my signature dumb ass.


signature??? :confused:
Can't help myself....must call you a dumbass. HEHE...........




we are not an occupying force. We are simply there.

:confused:

[Nodbugger]

Jesus, take your pills and calm down. I can't see any relevance between the quoted post and yours. Where does Pauly mention the coalition lying?

Your army is in their country and they do what you say. If that's not occupying a country then god help them if you actually decide to do it properly...


I replied to everyones post in one post.
Our Army is in Germany, South Korea, Japan, England, Ireland, Italy, Canada, and many other countries. Are we also an occupying force there?

No, just because we are there does not mean we are doing everything there. They are doing all the legal stuff. We just are in charge of the military aspect.

Not an occupying force. we are helping them.

[Nodbugger]

signature??? :confused:
Can't help myself....must call you a dumbass. HEHE...........





:confused:

But since you fuck heads use the petty rep system, my signature no longer shows. Man you guys are children.

Read much?

[Bostonmess]

I replied to everyones post in one post.
Our Army is in Germany, South Korea, Japan, England, Ireland, Italy, Canada, and many other countries. Are we also an occupying force there?

No, just because we are there does not mean we are doing everything there. They are doing all the legal stuff. We just are in charge of the military aspect.

Not an occupying force. we are helping them.
Bull fucking shit.

[Enos]

I replied to everyones post in one post.
Our Army is in Germany, South Korea, Japan, England, Ireland, Italy, Canada, and many other countries. Are we also an occupying force there?

No, just because we are there does not mean we are doing everything there. They are doing all the legal stuff. We just are in charge of the military aspect.

Not an occupying force. we are helping them.

Yes, but in those countries your power is restricted to bases they allow you to have, rather than letting you roam around willy nilly killing anything that moves and bombing the shit out of one of their cities on a daily basis.

[ajcrowley]

I replied to everyones post in one post.
Our Army is in Germany, South Korea, Japan, England, Ireland, Italy, Canada, and many other countries. Are we also an occupying force there?

No, just because we are there does not mean we are doing everything there. They are doing all the legal stuff. We just are in charge of the military aspect.

Not an occupying force. we are helping them.


you are an occupying force until Iraq Elects its own government and they ask you to stay.

[Nodbugger]

Yes, but in those countries your power is restricted to bases they allow you to have, rather than letting you roam around willy nilly killing anything that moves and bombing the shit out of one of their cities on a daily basis.


Actually we have free roam of the countries. Not armed of course, but Iraq is different. The fact that we are there does not make us an occupying force.

Stop with the killing anything that moves and bombing crap. You know we don't do shit like that. So stop being ignorant.

[Nodbugger]

you are an occupying force until Iraq Elects its own government and they ask you to stay.


Nope. they have their own government and they said we can stay.

The first American president was not elected. And what he was still the president and made decisions like he was supposed to.

[Enos]

Actually we have free roam of the countries. Not armed of course, but Iraq is different. The fact that we are there does not make us an occupying force.

Stop with the killing anything that moves and bombing crap. You know we don't do shit like that. So stop being ignorant.

There's a vast difference between having "free roam" as you put it and the situation in Iraq. Everyone has "free roam" in those countries, it's called being a tourist. I can just imagine the reaction if your troops in Germany started driving around armed to the teeth the way they do in Iraq. It's not even worth comparing.

As for the bombing call, had a look at Fallujah lately?

[ajcrowley]

Nope. they have their own government and they said we can stay.

The first American president was not elected. And what he was still the president and made decisions like he was supposed to.


did your mother drop you on your head too much, you cant believe that a government put in place by forces that overthrew the old regime actually counts for anything. Until they have elections its not a democracy, not one single iraqi has had any say in the running of Iraq.

[Nodbugger]

There's a vast difference between having "free roam" as you put it and the situation in Iraq. Everyone has "free roam" in those countries, it's called being a tourist. I can just imagine the reaction if your troops in Germany started driving around armed to the teeth the way they do in Iraq. It's not even worth comparing.

As for the bombing call, had a look at Fallujah lately?

Laser guided bombs. We can shoot the missile right through someones window. You act like we are carpet bombing the place.

[ajcrowley]

Laser guided bombs. We can shoot the missile right through someones window. You act like we are carpet bombing the place.


laser guided bombs make up about 50% of whats dropped on iraq

[Nodbugger]

did your mother drop you on your head too much, you cant believe that a government put in place by forces that overthrew the old regime actually counts for anything. Until they have elections its not a democracy, not one single iraqi has had any say in the running of Iraq.

They have voted on local governments. They have voted on many things, and their opinions are made known. they have their own Representatives that promote their opinions. They have everything set up for a democracy. They have candidates set up. They have everything ready to go. And just like Afghanistan, the people will be allowed to vote.

Like i said before, Americas first president was not elected. Yet he is one of the most famous and admired American presidents.

[Nodbugger]

laser guided bombs make up about 50% of whats dropped on iraq

They do not drop dumb bombs anymore.

They make up 100%.

[Nodbugger]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/089ntkyp.asp

But if America goes to war again in Iraq, close to 100 percent of its bombing sorties will be conducted using smart bombs. And this time, they'll be smarter. Advances in laser technology, targeting systems, and the now ubiquitous global positioning satellite system have revolutionized how America conducts war from the air--and, in many cases, the ground.



Good enough for you?

[ajcrowley]

They do not drop dumb bombs anymore.

They make up 100%.


your dreaming

[Nodbugger]

your dreaming

I think you are, read my source.

[Enos]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/089ntkyp.asp



Good enough for you?

Not really, looks like commentary to me not researched objective journalism.

[ajcrowley]

I think you are, read my source.


i just did, and its way off, for both the second and first gulf wars, if we look at two different sources with opposite views at best you get 80%. and if you read your own source it uses the words "almost all". thats still a shit load of dumb bombs if you choose the best figures.

do you ever question what you read or just swallow it without daring to question if its correct?

[Nodbugger]

i just did, and its way off, for both the second and first gulf wars, if we look at two different sources with opposite views at best you get 80%. and if you read your own source it uses the words "almost all". thats still a shit load of dumb bombs if you choose the best figures.

do you ever question what you read or just swallow it without daring to question if its correct?

it says nearly 100%. That means between 99% and 100%.

The only time we may have used dumb bombs were when we bombed large troops concentrations the first few days of the war. Every other time it has been smart bombs.

[Merudo]

I think you are, read my source.


Christian Lowe is a staff writer for Army Times Publishing and a contributing writer to The Daily Standard.


Where does that say he is someone who would actually know whats going on, and what's being used? :greenman:

FUNNIEST THING IS THIS!

But if America goes to war again in Iraq....<snip>

Yes, IF america goes to war again in iraq.

Then I guess this article is already kind of

http://www.ambitweb.com/useless/useless2k1.gif
Totally useless? ( fear my use of google images)


Seems to me like he's some columnist just making up a story off of some vague numbers.


Just because they "said" nearly 100% would be guided bombs, doesnt actually mean that nearly 100% were.

But hey, if you've got any credible sources, please, let me know.

[Juice Biscuit]

The weekly standed is a right wing hate group, I wouldn't trust anything they say.

[CMYK]

Noddy

Fuck off.

[Nodbugger]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030323-smartbombs01.htm

The only reason it is 9/10 is because when you drop unguided bombs they are used in much high quantities. But As I said, they were targeting large concentration of Iraqi soldiers. They were not used near buildings or civilian areas.

[davery]

Laser guided bombs. We can shoot the missile right through someones window. You act like we are carpet bombing the place.
That may be technically possible... assuming the dipshits guiding the missile manage to aim it at the right target (ie. don't hit a school with it).

As evidenced here: http://forum.zgeek.com/showthread.php?threadid=25281

And that's in your *own* country ! :aah:

[Nodbugger]

That may be technically possible... assuming the dipshits guiding the missile manage to aim it at the right target (ie. don't hit a school with it).

As evidenced here: http://forum.zgeek.com/showthread.php?threadid=25281

And that's in your *own* country ! :aah:

at night, in the national guard.

[and3w]

Silly simplistic poll...fuck the other petty arguments..

[AVataRR]

America has been a complete cock at every turn over Iraq. All the participatory governments in the invasion have lied, and mismanaged the entire issue. However I still think that the "freedom fighters" are the cocks. Look at Germany, and Japan. After being occupied after world war 2 they now have 2 of the most powerful economies on earth. The Iraqi's while they can't be too chuffed about being occupied by the West are really doing more harm to their nation than good by attacking infrastructure and are being complete assholes by doing suicide attacks on civilians. The US could have played the occupation a lot better but the Iraqi's are worse so I'm afraid my vote has to go against the Iraqi's.

omg s3raph, this sums up my own opinion quite nicely. I really don't get why they continue to make the situation worse. There'll be elections in January and if the government tells the occupying forces to piss off, they will. Stirring shit up will only make them stay longer! But I suppose they aren't really fighting for "freedom" are they.... fuckn psychos...

[Moses]

lets assume that they are dropping 100% laser guided bombs which are so accurate they can be aimed through a window. what happens then? does it smell really bad so the terrorists go outside and surrender? or does it detonate it's 1000 or so pounds of explosive?

is pin-point accuracy on such a powerful weapon just a gimick to make blowing up the innocent neighbours of terrorists more palatable?

[kev]

both sides are equally fucked in their own unique ways

have a banana :banana:

[Fitty]

Read my signature dumb ass.

You lie.

none of the coalition countries of lied.

And the people fighting American soldiers are terrorists. we are not an occupying force. We are simply there. Iraq is a sovereign nation. They have their own government. They are still Iraq. And the Iraqis will always be Iraqis.

The only difference is they will be a democracy. And any Iraqi that willingly fights the US deserves death.

Dude, I thought you were twelve or some shit, cos your ideas and opinions are so fucken stupid. As I just said, I had put your complete and utter fucken stupididty down to the fact that you were young. But I just read someplace that you're about 17. I realise now your opinions will never change. Seriously, you obviously need to work so hard to defend that wanker you have as president that you don't have time for common sense.
1) If so many people hate him, there's probably a reason.
2) You can't have a valid opinion without having properly researched all the material.
Noddy, if you're going to be so controversial, then figure out what the fuck you're on about. Be slightly human, figure out what Bush is doing to your shithouse country. For fuck's sake man, stop being such an ill-informed wanker.

[Chopper]

But since you fuck heads use the petty rep system, my signature no longer shows. Man you guys are children.


(to be sung to the tune chorus so macho)

He's ....oh so dumb..... he's already oh so dumb..... his mind so very small... he's talking shit an' all.

Next verse please.

[Chopper]

They do not drop dumb bombs anymore.

They make up 100%.

Apart from your source being total crap....could you be totally wrong per chance?

Bombs.....Dumb bombs (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/02/1054406130502.html?oneclick=true)

Not to mention the number of cluster bombs used......

A third of the bombs dropped on Iraq were old-style "dumb weapons" - despite suggestions from the Pentagon that 90 per cent of munitions used would be precision-guided.

The first detailed analysis of the coalition air campaign by the commander of US air forces, Michael Moseley, also reveals a heavy emphasis on psychological operations; 32 million pro-coalition leaflets rained down on Iraqis during the campaign and 610 hours of anti-Saddam Hussein propaganda were broadcast.

There were 10 authorised strikes against "media facilities", including the Baghdad office of the Arabic TV news channel al-Jazeera, in which a reporter died.

More than 240,000 cluster bombs were dropped on Iraq, the report shows. Australia refuses to use these weapons, which were said by doctors to have caused injuries to children during allied bombing raids.

Humanitarian organisations want cluster bombs banned because their hundreds of grenade-like explosives scatter as far as half a kilometre, sometimes over urban areas where they can lie undisturbed for years and then explode. During the war, Central Command in Qatar began investigating reports that cluster bombs had killed 11 civilians in Hillah, in southern Iraq, and admitted in April that, while aiming for Iraqi missile systems and artillery, it hit Baghdad suburbs with cluster bombs.

Commander Moseley's assessment of the campaign is based on military records from March 19 to April 18. Called Operation Iraqi Freedom - By The Numbers, it has not been publicly released but is available to military experts. An unclassified version has been obtained by The Age.

Retired Air Vice-Marshal Peter Nicholson said it showed a much higher proportion of precision-guided munitions were fired at the beginning of the campaign but, as the war progressed, fewer advanced weapons were used.

He criticised the number of Tomahawk missiles, each costing more than $1.5 million, used by the US. "They fired far too many Tomahawks just because it kept the US Navy in play," he said. "They could have done the same thing with bombs from aircraft at a twentieth of the cost."

A total of 467,000 military personnel were deployed to fight Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2050 of them were Australian. Australia flew 565 out of 41,000 coalition missions, with 302 of those combat sorties. Airpower expert at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Aldo Borgu, said the report confirms that Australia's contribution was minor.

He said the report highlighted the incompetence of Iraqi air defences, which fired 1600 missiles, many more than originally thought, but failed to hit one coalition aircraft. One low-flying Warthog and six attack helicopters were downed by enemy ground fire. Thirteen allied aircraft were lost to mishaps, errors and equipment failures.

An allied plus could have been a successful propaganda campaign given that, "on the whole, the Iraqi military did not fight", Mr Borgu said.

According to Commander Moseley's report, 81 different leaflets were printed and 108 radio messages sent. Coalition aircraft over Iraq broadcast 304 hours of television.

Nearly 160 "leaflet missions" dropped 31.8 million leaflets. Commander Moseley notes that the paper could have made 120,000 toilet rolls. Some told Iraqi troops to surrender and avoid death. They were told to drape white flags on their tanks and military vehicles, move away from them, throw down their weapons and wait for allied forces to round them up.

"The US and its allies want the Iraqi people to be liberated from Saddam's injustice and for Iraq to become a respected member of the international community," one said. "Iraq's future depends on you."

Mr Borgu said the information provided by the report was far more detailed than anything released by the Australian military and would help in a real evaluation of the campaign.

A higher percentage of unguided munitions than expected had been dropped - nearly 10,000 as against nearly 20,000 precision bombs and missiles - but the proportion of smart weapons was still more than double that used in Kosovo and six times that used in the first Gulf War. It was a new trend in warfare, he said.

About half the precision guided munitions were laser-guided bombs and more than 800 Tomahawk cruise missiles were launched at Iraq.

More than half the targets selected for air strikes were Iraqi army or Republican Guard units, but about one in 10 bombs were dropped on possible weapons of mass destruction or missile sites.

Attacks on the Iraqi leadership were designated "time sensitive", and coalition aircraft made at least 50 strikes against elements of the leadership, including Saddam Hussein.

The coalition air campaigns search and rescue centre made 55 rescue missions, saving 73 personnel.

[Nodbugger]

Apart from your source being total crap....could you be totally wrong per chance?

Bombs.....Dumb bombs (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/06/02/1054406130502.html?oneclick=true)

Not to mention the number of cluster bombs used......

They are counting it wrong.

A cluster bomb is one bomb with thousands of little bombs inside of it. They are counting those little bombs each as their own bomb.

We used cluster bombs on enemy troop concentration. No where near civilians. When you drop 15 cluster bombs you are releasing thousands of bombs. Just really small ones. The laser guided bombs are not small bombs, they are one big bomb. So when you cheat and look at it that way it looks like we are just carpet bombing everywhere.

When infact you have no military knowledge and neither does the person reporting on what types of bombs are used.

[Bostonmess]

What would you guess is the number of civilian casualties?

[Chopper]

Nope. they have their own government and they said we can stay.

The first American president was not elected. And what he was still the president and made decisions like he was supposed to.

No Noddy, they have not said you can stay.... the US selected council have no choice!

It's just another puppet govenment of the US administration

restrict the power of the interim government and impose U.S.-crafted rules for the country's democratic transition. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8665-2004Jun26.html)

Yawer was a member of the clans council before being appointed to the U.S.-handpicked Governing Council. (http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=5139)

The United States has warmly endorsed a decision by the Iraqi Governing Council to select a longtime exile with strong ties to The CIA (website) to be the new prime minister of Iraq's interim government despite U.N. concerns over his past links. (http://www.wjla.com/headlines/0504/149977.html)

Iraq's U.S.-appointed Governing Council on Friday unanimously nominated Ayad Allawi, a Shiite Muslim politician and former exile whose party was supported by the CIA, to be the country's interim prime minister (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62691-2004May28.html)

Winners declared after rival slate of candidates is withdrawn (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5748074/)

Do you think the US would butt out and let them find their own way....hell no!

[Nodbugger]

George Washington, Americas first president was not elected, as I'm sure your countries first president was not elected. Same with most countries. You cannot start out with an election. You have to get someone in there to do the work, set it up then have an election.

You are not doing this, this is not your job. Shut the fuck and let them do it the way it has been done for ever.

You would be a bitch ass mother fucker during world war 2.

[Chopper]

George Washington, Americas first president was not elected, as I'm sure your countries first president was not elected. Same with most countries. You cannot start out with an election. You have to get someone in there to do the work, set it up then have an election.

You are not doing this, this is not your job. Shut the fuck and let them do it the way it has been done for ever.

You would be a bitch ass mother fucker during world war 2.

Did I touch a nerve young man?

[Nodbugger]

Did I touch a nerve young man?

no, but you lost too many brain cells.

[Bostonmess]

Hey that's nice of you, seeing as though it's not WW2 then he must not be a "bitch ass motherfucker."

Noddy what do you think the civilian death toll is?

[Chopper]

They are counting it wrong.

A cluster bomb is one bomb with thousands of little bombs inside of it. They are counting those little bombs each as their own bomb.

We used cluster bombs on enemy troop concentration. No where near civilians. When you drop 15 cluster bombs you are releasing thousands of bombs. Just really small ones. The laser guided bombs are not small bombs, they are one big bomb. So when you cheat and look at it that way it looks like we are just carpet bombing everywhere.

When infact you have no military knowledge and neither does the person reporting on what types of bombs are used.

Go back and read the article...I've included the text since the link was broken.

Cluster bombs were in additional to the 'dumb bombs' used jackass and thankyou for assuming I have no military knowledge asswipe....you know nowt!

[Nodbugger]

Hey that's nice of you, seeing as though it's not WW2 then he must not be a "bitch ass motherfucker."

Noddy what do you think the civilian death toll is?

I don't care what the civilian death toll is.

[Chopper]

You would be a bitch ass mother fucker during world war 2.

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting I would fuck your mother up the ass while watching a movie called World War 2 :D

Seriously...what does that mean?

[Nodbugger]

Go back and read the article...I've included the text since the link was broken.

Cluster bombs were in additional to the 'dumb bombs' used jackass and thankyou for assuming I have no military knowledge asswipe....you know nowt!

Show me what fucking bombs then. Prove it. You can post all these anti-American articles that you want. We have no dumb bombs in inventory. There are only cluster bombs. And they are used in small quantities.

And yes, you have no military knowledge.

[Bostonmess]

I don't care what the civilian death toll is.Yeah I know that. We can tell. But how many do you think it is?

[Nodbugger]

Sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting I would fuck your mother up the ass while watching a movie called World War 2 :D

Seriously...what does that mean?

It means you will never been satisfied, so someone should bust a cap in your ass to rid the world of such stupidity.

[Chopper]

I don't care what the civilian death toll is.

You make it so easy for people to smack you down... Does your dad see the shit you post in this forum?

[Nodbugger]

You make it so easy for people to smack you down... Does your dad see the shit you post in this forum?

The reason I do not care is because the war is not over.

It is like saying the score 5 minutes into the game matters.

[Bostonmess]

It does if it's 230000 to 1100.

[Chopper]

And yes, you have no military knowledge. In true Noddy style..... Prove it! heh heh!

[Chopper]

You can post all these anti-American articles that you want.

Several of those links were actually American ......

[Nodbugger]

Several of those links were actually American ......

That doesn't mean they can't be anti-american.

There are some Americans worse than you.

[Bostonmess]

There are many.

[Chopper]

It means you will never been satisfied, so someone should bust a cap in your ass to rid the world of such stupidity.

Is that your answer to everything? God help us the day they put a gun in your hand and tell you to server your cuntry (oooo freudian slip!)

[StudMuffin]

I think anything objective would ahve to be classed as anti-american, the only reaosn to be subjective is to defend this coalition

[Nodbugger]

I think anything objective would ahve to be classed as anti-american, the only reaosn to be subjective is to defend this coalition

Everything objective to you is anti-American.



You are far more biased and extremists than I am. You still believe things I have proven to be false.

[Bostonmess]

Well at least you're admitting to being biased and extremist Noddy.

[Chopper]

Back to the point of this thread. I've not voted because if the coalition weren't there then neither would the insurgents.

Now before you kick off Noddy.... I'm not saying Saddam shouldn't have been removed, but, the way the operation was rushed allowed...read it again....ALLOWED the insurgents (iraqi and non iraqi) to gain a foothold.

Now the fact that Fallujah has been taken will have no bearing on the insurgency uprising. They knew you were coming...you'd been broadcasting the intention for weeks, so the majority got out. So in a few months you'll be bombing the crap out of another insurgency stronghold somewhere else in Iraq... troops, civilians and hostages will continue to die and you'll have to do it all again.

[Bostonmess]

They killed a fair few hundred insurgents though, according to reports.

[Chopper]

Everything objective to you is anti-American.

You are far more biased and extremists than I am. You still believe things I have proven to be false.

Noddy ... you saying you're right is not proof, nor is liinkage to purely US sources. Governments say what they want you to hear.

[Chopper]

They killed a fair few hundred insurgents though, according to reports.

Granted, They left the matyrs behind, the boss man has long since left.

[Fitty]

George Washington, Americas first president was not elected, as I'm sure your countries first president was not elected. Same with most countries. You cannot start out with an election. You have to get someone in there to do the work, set it up then have an election.

You are not doing this, this is not your job. Shut the fuck and let them do it the way it has been done for ever.

You would be a bitch ass mother fucker during world war 2.

Noddy, shut up you dumb prick. In fact, our first Prime Minister was elected, and "most countries" doesn't enter into it. You're argument is entirely based around what has happened rather than what should happen - look into that.

Speaking of "bitch ass motherfuckers during world war 2," I seem to recall that the yanks only got involved at the tail end of WW1, then only when pearl harbour was bombed in WW2. Us Aussies, however, were in the thick of it in both. In WW1, we lost more soldiers per capita than any other country, so don't bitch about Aussies in war.

But aside from that all, there was a moral obligation to go to war in WW2, while now there is a moral obligation to stop war.

[Bostonmess]

Granted, They left the matyrs behind, the boss man has long since left.

Not to mention quite a few civilians will have been listed as insurgents so it doesn't look as bad?

[Nodbugger]

Noddy, shut up you dumb prick. In fact, our first Prime Minister was elected, and "most countries" doesn't enter into it. You're argument is entirely based around what has happened rather than what should happen - look into that.

Speaking of "bitch ass motherfuckers during world war 2," I seem to recall that the yanks only got involved at the tail end of WW1, then only when pearl harbour was bombed in WW2. Us Aussies, however, were in the thick of it in both. In WW1, we lost more soldiers per capita than any other country, so don't bitch about Aussies in war.

But aside from that all, there was a moral obligation to go to war in WW2, while now there is a moral obligation to stop war.

So why didn't Europe stop Hitler before he started a war? You would have had to go to war to get him out of there. There was no way you we were going to leave Saddam there anymore.

Plain and simple. War will always be there because you choose to do nothing.

[Chopper]

So why didn't Europe stop Hitler before he started a war? You would have had to go to war to get him out of there. There was no way you we were going to leave Saddam there anymore.

Plain and simple. War will always be there because you choose to do nothing.

Stop him how?

[Nodbugger]

Stop him how?

Not letting him invade Poland and sign a treaty with the Soviet Union. They fucked up a lot.

[Ins0mniac]

Plain and simple. War will always be there because you choose to do nothing.

Exactly! The U.S chose to act pre emptively and they're certainly not in a war now. If they hadn't attacked Saddam pre-emptively they would have surely been invaded by Saddam and his Weapons of mass destruction by now.

[Juice Biscuit]

Not letting him invade Poland and sign a treaty with the Soviet Union. They fucked up a lot.

You are obviously referring to the lefto pinko socialist pussy US. Man, those guys went around saying how it wasn't their war and why should they die for someone else's problems. Those girlie men were too scared to stand up to the oppressors.

The bunch of softcock pussies.

[Ins0mniac]

You are obviously referring to the lefto pinko socialist pussy US. Man, those guys went around saying how it wasn't their war and why should they die for someone else's problems. Those girlie men were too scared to stand up to the oppressors.

The bunch of softcock pussies.

Yep. Britain entered the war despite Hitler saying he had no intentions of ever invading them.

The U.S, on the other hand waited around for years while the Nazis were taking over countries and then only decided to enter the war when they were directly attacked at Pearl Harbour years later.

And then they run around gloating about being heroes of the universe while the rest of the world, which had been fighting for years longer simpley roll their eyes and sigh to themselves.

[Nodbugger]

Exactly! The U.S chose to act pre emptively and they're certainly not in a war now. If they hadn't attacked Saddam pre-emptively they would have surely been invaded by Saddam and his Weapons of mass destruction by now.

Why don't you ever think outside the box?

We do not want countries that are unfriendly to us to be unfriendly to us. Because when they are they can do damage. Saddam may not have been able to to physically invade our country, but he sure as hell could have wreaked Havoc with terrorist attacks.

That is what we did not want. Saddam wouldn't have thought twice about handing a nuclear war head over to Muhammad so he can set it off in a densely populated area.

[Evil Dan]

We do not want countries that are unfriendly to us to be unfriendly to us.


Then you should probably stop invading them....

[Chopper]

Not letting him invade Poland and sign a treaty with the Soviet Union. They fucked up a lot.

Again Noddy...How?

Would it have involved guns and bombs at all?

[Nodbugger]

Yep. Britain entered the war despite Hitler saying he had no intentions of ever invading them.

The U.S, on the other hand waited around for years while the Nazis were taking over countries and then only decided to enter the war when they were directly attacked at Pearl Harbour years later.

September 16th 1940- The day the US started drafting soldiers. This is well over a year BEFORE Pearl Harbor Started.
http://www.world-war-2.info/timeline/

Plus, we signed the Lend-lease act.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-23.htm

Learn your History for once.

[Nodbugger]

Then you should probably stop invading them....

They should probably stop invading other countries and developing weapons of mass destruction.

That might help, or did you forget they fucked up.

The US is not the bad guy.

Your ass back wards logic has put us there.

[Nodbugger]

Again Noddy...How?

Would it have involved guns and bombs at all?

Would you rather have 30 something sovereign countries surrounding Germany help with the efforts? Or 1 free country and a few groups of Rebels attacking a growing country that has stolen uncountable amounts of resources from other countries it takes over.

[Chopper]

Why don't you ever think outside the box?

We do not want countries that are unfriendly to us to be unfriendly to us. Because when they are they can do damage. Saddam may not have been able to to physically invade our country, but he sure as hell could have wreaked Havoc with terrorist attacks.

That is what we did not want. Saddam wouldn't have thought twice about handing a nuclear war head over to Muhammad so he can set it off in a densely populated area.

Noddy show me proof now that:


Iraq harboured any terrorists before you invaded
Iraq has ever harboured any terrorists
Saddam had any plans to attack the US with terrorists
Saddam had the capability to attack the US
Saddam had any nuclear weapons to sell to the terrorists


Answer in any order....

[Nobdugger]

Again Noddy...How?

Would it have involved guns and bombs at all?

Yes. Guns and bombs is the way we do business with fucktard nations

[Chopper]

Noddy you said.....

So why didn't Europe stop Hitler before he started a war? You would have had to go to war to get him out of there. There was no way you we were going to leave Saddam there anymore.

Plain and simple. War will always be there because you choose to do nothing..

and I said how........without starting a war!!!

and you said

Would you rather have 30 something sovereign countries surrounding Germany help with the efforts? Or 1 free country and a few groups of Rebels attacking a growing country that has stolen uncountable amounts of resources from other countries it takes over.

again how???? .......without starting a war???

[Juice Biscuit]

Yep. Britain entered the war despite Hitler saying he had no intentions of ever invading them.

The U.S, on the other hand waited around for years while the Nazis were taking over countries and then only decided to enter the war when they were directly attacked at Pearl Harbour years later.

And then they run around gloating about being heroes of the universe while the rest of the world, which had been fighting for years longer simpley roll their eyes and sigh to themselves.

Don't forget the pleading from Churchil, and him having to trade land for outdated ships from the US.

[Nodbugger]

Noddy show me proof now that:


Iraq harboured any terrorists before you invaded
Iraq has ever harboured any terrorists
Saddam had any plans to attack the US with terrorists
Saddam had the capability to attack the US
Saddam had any nuclear weapons to sell to the terrorists


Answer in any order....

1/2
http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406010821.asp
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13589
http://www.cfrterrorism.org/sponsors/iraq.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85514,00.html
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110005814
http://www.insightmag.com/news/319351.html
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html

Al-Queda are not the only terrorists.

3.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3819057.stm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53096-2004Jun18.html
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/19/1087595776203.html?from=storylhs

I thought I have told you guys this before, many times. Stop ignoring it.

4. See these attacks going on in Iraq every day? If they were not attack our trained soldiers in Iraq, they would be attacking innocent civilians in the US.

5.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/26/opinion/26obeidi.html?pagewanted=1

This outlines Saddam's plans for Nuclear weapons. Which are not the only wmd. He could easily give them small bombs with Sarin Gas in them and drop them in the sub way systems.



The bottom line is Saddam was evil. There is no use for evil. Why the fuck are you so against getting rid of him? It makes no fucking sense.

We did not steal their oil as you thought.
We did not kill them all.
We did not making Iraq America Junior.
They are a growing democracy.
We got rid of Saddam.
We are putting down the insurgency.
Bush and Cheney have not made a dime off it.


You have nothing left, give the fuck up already.

[Nodbugger]

Noddy you said.....



and I said how........without starting a war!!!

and you said



again how???? .......without starting a war???

You lost it haven't you.

You tried to stop him without starting a war, but by time those dumb fucks realized Hitler was not going to stop it was too late. All Hitler needed was a few countries massing troops at his border and he would have slowed down.

If Europe would have gotten on Russia's good side they could have done it by themselves back in 1938.

But of course Hitler hadn't actually done anything yet to it would have been unjust :rolleyes:

[Chopper]

September 16th 1940- The day the US started drafting soldiers. This is well over a year BEFORE Pearl Harbor Started.
http://www.world-war-2.info/timeline/

Plus, we signed the Lend-lease act.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-23.htm

Learn your History for once.

What a crock of shit. Noddy your link reveals what? that the US brought in the draft!!!

1940
...........blah blah
...........
6/22/1940 France capitulates to Nazis
7/10/1940 Battle of Britain begins
7/23/1940 Red Army takes Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia
8/3/1940 Italian Army invades British Somaliland
8/13/1940 Luftwaffe begins raids on British airfields and aircraft factories
8/23-24/1940 Off-course German bombers accidentally bomb London
8/25-26/1940 Royal Air Force mounts reprisal raid against Berlin
9/7/1940 German "blitz" on British cities begins in earnest
9/13/1940 Italian Army attacks Egypt
9/16/1940 Military conscription introduced in United States
9/27/1940 Tripartite alliance formed between Germany, Italy and Japan
10/7/1940 German troops occupy Romania
.............

The US did not enter World War II when Nazi Germany overran eastern Europe and reached the outskirts of Moscow and Leningrad.

It did not move to stop Japan’s conquest of Manchuria and the great cities of China.

But the fall of France in May 1940, the prospect of German victory in Russia, and Japan’s aggressive extension of its Asian empire, taken together, threatened to isolate the United States in a hostile, militarized world.

Then in 1941

1941
.............blah blah
10/24/1941 Germans capture Soviet city of Kharkov
10/30/1941 German Army occupies the Crimea
11/20/1941 Germans capture the Soviet city of Rostov
11/27/1941 Red Army retakes Rostov
12/6/1941 Red Army launches major counter-offensive
12/7/1941 Japanese attack naval base at Pearl Harbor
12/8/1941 Roosevelt gives "Day of Infamy" speech; United States and Britain declare war on Japan
12/11/1941 Germany declares war on the United States
..........

So you see Germany declared war on you ...apparently

[Ins0mniac]

They should probably stop invading other countries and developing weapons of mass destruction.

That might help, or did you forget they fucked up.

The US is not the bad guy.

Your ass back wards logic has put us there.

The U.S didn't seem to mind them invading Iran.

Although I admit they got pretty pissed off when they invaded Kuwait.

And it seems that Iraq got rid of their WMD's after the first Iraq war when the world demanded them to. But the U.S didn't believe them. Even though the inspectors found nothing.

[Nodbugger]

The U.S didn't seem to mind them invading Iran.

Although I admit they got pretty pissed off when they invaded Kuwait.

Would you get pissed if Stalin shot Hitler dead?

[Ins0mniac]

September 16th 1940- The day the US started drafting soldiers. This is well over a year BEFORE Pearl Harbor Started.
http://www.world-war-2.info/timeline/

Plus, we signed the Lend-lease act.

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq59-23.htm

Learn your History for once.

Well it wasn't exactly a declaration of war was it? But I guess they did seem to help out.

[Ins0mniac]

Would you get pissed if Stalin shot Hitler dead?


No I guess not.

[Nodbugger]

What a crock of shit. Noddy your link reveals what? that the US brought in the draft!!!

1940
...........blah blah
...........
6/22/1940 France capitulates to Nazis
7/10/1940 Battle of Britain begins
7/23/1940 Red Army takes Baltic states of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia
8/3/1940 Italian Army invades British Somaliland
8/13/1940 Luftwaffe begins raids on British airfields and aircraft factories
8/23-24/1940 Off-course German bombers accidentally bomb London
8/25-26/1940 Royal Air Force mounts reprisal raid against Berlin
9/7/1940 German "blitz" on British cities begins in earnest
9/13/1940 Italian Army attacks Egypt
9/16/1940 Military conscription introduced in United States
9/27/1940 Tripartite alliance formed between Germany, Italy and Japan
10/7/1940 German troops occupy Romania
.............

The US did not enter World War II when Nazi Germany overran eastern Europe and reached the outskirts of Moscow and Leningrad.

It did not move to stop Japan’s conquest of Manchuria and the great cities of China.

But the fall of France in May 1940, the prospect of German victory in Russia, and Japan’s aggressive extension of its Asian empire, taken together, threatened to isolate the United States in a hostile, militarized world.

Then in 1941

1941
.............blah blah
10/24/1941 Germans capture Soviet city of Kharkov
10/30/1941 German Army occupies the Crimea
11/20/1941 Germans capture the Soviet city of Rostov
11/27/1941 Red Army retakes Rostov
12/6/1941 Red Army launches major counter-offensive
12/7/1941 Japanese attack naval base at Pearl Harbor
12/8/1941 Roosevelt gives "Day of Infamy" speech; United States and Britain declare war on Japan
12/11/1941 Germany declares war on the United States
..........

So you see Germany declared war on you ...apparently

Why would we start conscripting people if we did not intend to go to war?

We can't just pack up and move out. We did not have a vast military at that point. By the end of world war 2 we had over 16 million people in our active duty military. That is over 8x what we have now total.
We had to build tanks, train troops, build planes, supply food and other misc supplies.

Believe it or not life is not like a computer game. You cannot click on the war factory click the tank icon and have a tank appear.

[Nodbugger]

Well it wasn't exactly a declaration of war was it? But I guess they did seem to help out.

The value of defense articles disposed of in any way under authority of this paragraph, and procured from funds heretofore appropriated, shall not exceed $1,300,000,000.

1.3 trillion in 1941 is a bit more than a little.

[Juice Biscuit]

I request other sources for your sources in point one or two, they all come from right wing hate groups or the gov. Independant news links only.

Also you only joined the war after you got bitchslapped, like how Bush only paid attension to terrorists after you got bitchslapped again.

[Nodbugger]

I request other sources for your sources in point one or two, they all come from right wing hate groups or the gov. Independant news links only.

Also you only joined the war after you got bitchslapped, like how Bush only paid attension to terrorists after you got bitchslapped again.

Um...no.

[Juice Biscuit]

Thats allright I don't doubt you, as I don't think you could provide links unless you referenced a right wing hate group. Nobody else would be silly enough to report lies like the pro-bush media.

[Nodbugger]

Thats allright I don't doubt you, as I don't think you could provide links unless you referenced a right wing hate group. Nobody else would be silly enough to report lies like the pro-bush media.

none of those are what you say.

[Ins0mniac]

none of those are what you say.


Foxnews?

I don't know about the other links but I spotted Fox News somewhere up their and I think even a Bush supporter should realise Fox is biased.

When a news reader starts going on about how good Bush is like it's an opinion piece, there's cause for concern.

[Nodbugger]

Foxnews?

I don't know about the other links but I spotted Fox News somewhere up their and I think even a Bush supporter should realise Fox is biased.

When a news reader starts going on about how good Bush is like it's an opinion piece, there's cause for concern.

Show me the bias in any FOX article. I dare you to.

Or have you not figured out the difference between news caster and commentator?

[Juice Biscuit]

none of those are what you say.

HAhahahah, that’s funny, but you are obviously biased, and are unable to put forth a well presented and fair and balanced argument.

[Chopper]

Why would we start conscripting people if we did not intend to go to war?

We can't just pack up and move out. We did not have a vast military at that point. By the end of world war 2 we had over 16 million people in our active duty military. That is over 8x what we have now total.
We had to build tanks, train troops, build planes, supply food and other misc supplies.

Believe it or not life is not like a computer game. You cannot click on the war factory click the tank icon and have a tank appear.

That's ok Noddy...... plenty of countries have conscription that aren't gearing up for war. It's called national service. Like Italy, Germany among many others.

The US were quite prepared to allow europe to fall under German rule that was until they perceived a threat when Germany started conspiring with Japan.

Like was said earlier...you were scared you were going to be bitchslapped

[Nodbugger]

That's ok Noddy...... plenty of countries have conscription that aren't gearing up for war. It's called national service. Like Italy, Germany among many others.

The US were quite prepared to allow europe to fall under German rule that was until they perceived a threat when Germany started conspiring with Japan.

Like was said earlier...you were scared you were going to be bitchslapped

1. Why would we start a draft? We did not have one before that. Why all of a sudden come up with one, especially at that point in time.

2. We gave billions in aid before and after the war. Even billions before our forces got involved.

3. It is Europe's fault world war 2 happened, same with world war 1.

4. We had to come in and clean house. We kicked ass.

[royale]

Fuck off noddy you give me the shits

[Feryl]

But by disposing Saddam, they rightfully did the entire Iraq a lot of good.
I've heard Iraqi Christians are actually a lot worse off since Saddam was ousted. They've been subject to a lot more violence (mainly from Muslims), and kidnappings, torture and killing simply because of their faith has become quite common. A lot of them are fleeing to other countries, and they apparently look back on the time of Saddam's reign as a time of comparative peace and security.

Non that I'm saying Saddam shouldn't have been done away with... just that this is not a simple situation and not everybody is better off because the Americans decided to stick their oar in.

[psi_ko]

3. It is Europe's fault world war 2 happened, same with world war 1.

4. We had to come in and clean house. We kicked ass.

You're a fucking idiot. You know that don't you?

The US's efforts in the latter part of the war (II) were appreciated, however by the time the US finally decided to enter the conflict, the tide had already turned against Germany.

[SmaSheD_CoW]

The Iraqis who are fighting soldiers because they genuinely oppose the occupation aren't cunts.

The soldiers who are out there doing their jobs aren't cunts.

The terrorists who are murdering hostages, destroying infrastructure, etc are cunts.

The politicians who started the war are cunts.

The (hopefully) small percentage of soldiers who are committing the human rights violations (Abu Ghraib, shooting prisoners, etc) are cunts.

'Nuff said?

[Nodbugger]

You're a fucking idiot. You know that don't you?

The US's efforts in the latter part of the war (II) were appreciated, however by the time the US finally decided to enter the conflict, the tide had already turned against Germany.

How had the tide turned? Germany still had most of Europe, England had almost nothing left, and Russia had lost 20 million people.

We only entered 2 years after in started. Did you forget that part? Just because some big battles happened before that doesn't mean we entered it late. We got them out of Africa, we pushed the Japanese back to Japan and we basically kicked them out of China. With the money we gave to Russia they were able to push Germany pretty far back. We had taken Italy out. And by time d-day came around everyone was ready. And since we had a massive number of troops going through on d-day we put the war way over into our favor in about a year. You have to remember we had 16 million people in our military in 1944. If we did not contribute that 16 million(and the billions of dollars) world war 2 could have gone all the way into the 60's.

[Juice Biscuit]

How had the tide turned? Germany still had most of Europe, England had almost nothing left, and Russia had lost 20 million people.

We only entered 2 years after in started. Did you forget that part? Just because some big battles happened before that doesn't mean we entered it late. We got them out of Africa, we pushed the Japanese back to Japan and we basically kicked them out of China. With the money we gave to Russia they were able to push Germany pretty far back. We had taken Italy out. And by time d-day came around everyone was ready. And since we had a massive number of troops going through on d-day we put the war way over into our favor in about a year. You have to remember we had 16 million people in our military in 1944. If we did not contribute that 16 million(and the billions of dollars) world war 2 could have gone all the way into the 60's.


Push them pretty far back??

By the summer of 1943 2/3 off all the German Army were based in Russia, a month after D-day the first Russian troops had entered Poland. And it was all becuase of US money???

WWII would not have gone on to the 60's Germany would have made the atom bomb before then.

The Iraq war hasn't been going that long, the French arn't late are they, give them some more time?

[and3w]

WWII would not have gone on to the 60's Germany would have made the atom bomb before then.

Actually, the british first came up with the calculations to develop the atom bomb, with the help of refugees such as Nihls Bohr. This information was then passed on to the americans, who combined it with their knowledge and, more to the point the uranium that they had and the British didn't.

The Iraq war hasn't been going that long, the French arn't late are they, give them some more time?[/QUOTE]
Hahahahahaha....

[DOGG]

I saw a show on the discovery channel once. They reckon that a german scientist (cant remember which one, famous guy) made a mis-calculation and they ended up thinking they would need a uranium ball as tall as a man to achieve critical mass. At the rate they were producing uranium, it would take them 100 years to make that much. I think the scientist was claiming that he done it to stop nazis from getting the bomb but people accused him of making it up to cover up his blunder and make himself look good at the same time and that's what the show was about.

[Juice Biscuit]

I saw a show on the discovery channel once. They reckon that a german scientist (cant remember which one, famous guy) made a mis-calculation and they ended up thinking they would need a uranium ball as tall as a man to achieve critical mass. At the rate they were producing uranium, it would take them 100 years to make that much. I think the scientist was claiming that he done it to stop nazis from getting the bomb but people accused him of making it up to cover up his blunder and make himself look good at the same time and that's what the show was about.

If the Germans didn't have to worry about the Allies targeting their resources they would have obviously made more headway, but I would think that someone would have picked up on his mistake before 1960. ;)

[Juice Biscuit]

Actually, the british first came up with the calculations to develop the atom bomb, with the help of refugees such as Nihls Bohr. This information was then passed on to the americans, who combined it with their knowledge and, more to the point the uranium that they had and the British didn't.


It's true that Germany suffered a major brain drain before WWII kicked off, but I'm pretty sure they could have replenished their scientists in under 20 years. Top that off with their rocket knowledge plus the fact that the USSR and US rocket knowledge relied heavily on the scientists taken from Germany after WWII, Germany would have been a far stronger force. Don't forget it wasn't untill the Korean war that the US and the USSR had decent jet fighter aircraft.

The later the Allies waited untill joining WWII the harder Germany would be to stop was my main point.

[Nodbugger]

If the Germans didn't have to worry about the Allies targeting their resources they would have obviously made more headway, but I would think that someone would have picked up on his mistake before 1960. ;)


'Germany’s power grid was much more vulnerable than realized. One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry had instead been dropped on power plants, German industry would have collapsed.'

http://www.world-war-2.info/facts/

[Juice Biscuit]

'Germany’s power grid was much more vulnerable than realized. One estimate is that if just 1% of the bombs dropped on German industry had instead been dropped on power plants, German industry would have collapsed.'

http://www.world-war-2.info/facts/


Are you going somewhere with this or did you just reach into the Internet and pull something out?

[ajcrowley]

Noddy
has the US in your opinion ever fucked up, while i am patriotic to my country of birth(UK) and also my new home (Australia) i also undestand that neither are infallible.
your apparant inability to accept that the US has its own failings makes you look like a complete fucking brainwashed drugfucked moron.

Germany was clearly overstretched in WW2 but i agree the war could have dragged on for many years without the help of the US, germany perhaps could have even have won although keeping control would have been impossible. while i am greatful to the US for their help i am not stupid enough to think that it was a totally selfless act. they stepped in for their own self protection as much as Europe's

[Nodbugger]

Noddy
has the US in your opinion ever fucked up, while i am patriotic to my country of birth(UK) and also my new home (Australia) i also undestand that neither are infallible.
your apparant inability to accept that the US has its own failings makes you look like a complete fucking brainwashed drugfucked moron.

Germany was clearly overstretched in WW2 but i agree the war could have dragged on for many years without the help of the US, germany perhaps could have even have won although keeping control would have been impossible. while i am greatful to the US for their help i am not stupid enough to think that it was a totally selfless act. they stepped in for their own self protection as much as Europe's


You haven't seen all of my posts. I don't think the US is currently fucking up.

I'm sure there were better ideas on other things we have done, but overall we have a better track record than most countries. You guys have been around the last couple thousand years, and you have a long list of fuck ups. And nothing really good started happening to the world until the late 1600's early 1700's. And America was a colony then. I think we are the greatest, most richest, most powerful nation on Earth. That is just my opinion(and Chris Rock's). I love it here and wouldn't live anywhere else. That is just my opinion.

But I think we could do some more stuff with our domestic problems, I think the government generally has the best intentions. But the people in the US are the ones that fuck it all up. I think that is one major difference from the US and other countries. More conservative people generally blame the populace, because after all the will of the people is what we are all about. The government just looks at numbers and thinks of ways of fixing numbers that are not right. Then we vote on it. The Liberal side forgets we don't live in a Monarchy or a Dictatorship. Chanting slogans saying "This is what Democracy looks like", well duh, 7/11 on the corner is also what Democracy looks like along with that Stop sign on the corner, someone had to vote to put both of them there. They tend to blame people that really cannot control much of anything.

Like you guys blame Bush for everything. Well since you are not Americans and have no clue how our government works I get pissed because you make stupid ass comments. I know the King and Queens in England mean jack shit today. They have power over the government anymore. You have a Parliament we have the Congress and the House of Representatives. They vote on proposed items and if they vote yes the President says hey that looks good or that looks good and signs it or doesn't. If the president says no, Congress can take it to the Supreme court and they can decide on how it should be handled. Which is why the argument saying Bush is a war criminal is absolutely ridiculous. If he was Congress could have said something to the Supreme court, all it takes is 1 guy, and the Supreme court and can look it over. The Supreme court says yes or no and that is how it is. No one person can get that powerful. No one group can get powerful. They can all screw each other over and they all enjoy doing it. they make it so people put in office the person that best fits their view. You will never have 100% agreement. So who the fuck cares.

The things you say about our government are just complete and utter Bullshit. So I suggest you all learn how it works or shut the hell up. you all sound like little kids.

[Nodbugger]

Are you going somewhere with this or did you just reach into the Internet and pull something out?

Just adding onto his statement.

[Juice Biscuit]

You haven't seen all of my posts. I don't think the US is currently fucking up.

I'm sure there were better ideas on other things we have done, but overall we have a better track record than most countries. You guys have been around the last couple thousand years, and you have a long list of fuck ups.


Have we? By we do you mean humans or???



And nothing really good started happening to the world until the late 1600's early 1700's. And America was a colony then. I think we are the greatest, most richest, most powerful nation on Earth. That is just my opinion(and Chris Rock's). I love it here and wouldn't live anywhere else. That is just my opinion.

But I think we could do some more stuff with our domestic problems, I think the government generally has the best intentions. But the people in the US are the ones that fuck it all up. I think that is one major difference from the US and other countries. More conservative people generally blame the populace, because after all the will of the people is what we are all about. The government just looks at numbers and thinks of ways of fixing numbers that are not right. Then we vote on it. The Liberal side forgets we don't live in a Monarchy or a Dictatorship. Chanting slogans saying "This is what Democracy looks like", well duh, 7/11 on the corner is also what Democracy looks like along with that Stop sign on the corner, someone had to vote to put both of them there. They tend to blame people that really cannot control much of anything.

Like you guys blame Bush for everything. Well since you are not Americans and have no clue how our government works I get pissed because you make stupid ass comments.


Ok but what about all those Yanks that think he's a tool as well?



I know the King and Queens in England mean jack shit today. They have power over the government anymore. You have a Parliament we have the Congress and the House of Representatives.


The King of England and the Queens of England, confused on both counts.




They vote on proposed items and if they vote yes the President says hey that looks good or that looks good and signs it or doesn't. If the president says no, Congress can take it to the Supreme court and they can decide on how it should be handled. Which is why the argument saying Bush is a war criminal is absolutely ridiculous. If he was Congress could have said something to the Supreme court, all it takes is 1 guy, and the Supreme court and can look it over. The Supreme court says yes or no and that is how it is. No one person can get that powerful. No one group can get powerful. They can all screw each other over and they all enjoy doing it. they make it so people put in office the person that best fits their view. You will never have 100% agreement. So who the fuck cares.

The things you say about our government are just complete and utter Bullshit. So I suggest you all learn how it works or shut the hell up. you all sound like little kids.s


Ok but have a google for the King of England.

[Merudo]

I won't vote.



Neither...


Other than those profiting from the situation to go over there and just indiscriminately kill coalition forces, and use the situation for their own benefits... You have to respect (to some degree) both sides in this conflict.

[and3w]

Just to say I repped noddy up to 0 as a crimble present so nod, mate, please try and be reasonable?? PLEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSEE!
Happy cristmas, you make these forums funny

[ajcrowley]

noddy, i actually pitty you, its sad to think people as narrow minded as you exist

[Afta Image]

Where's the it all fucked, why cant people just get on with Life option?

[dogwomble]

Actually we have free roam of the countries. Not armed of course, but Iraq is different. The fact that we are there does not make us an occupying force.

Stop with the killing anything that moves and bombing crap. You know we don't do shit like that. So stop being ignorant.

Actually, I think enos had a point.

Having bases in a country, and being there for "peaceful" reasons is one thing. (By "peaceful" I mean they are NOT going to drop a bomb on them, or kill one of the residents of the country).

Iraq, on the other hand, they went in to fight and win. Basically, to knock out Saddam and (supposedly) do a lot of other things as well. No matter how hard you stretch the definition of "occupational force", they are still an "occupational force".

[waeom]

I've already posted this elsewhere - maybe they'll be considering this....

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Gay-bombs-US-secret-weapon-plan/2005/01/14/1105582700951.html

[Marshall77]

the thing is that the coalition will not leave while the Iraqi's are fighting them. So the sooner ppl stop the killing and shit and try to get along for a few months the sooner the coalition forces will piss off. NO that i agree with them being there under the false pretences that they were sent.

[arelius19]

were not doing anything wrong really only the shias [spelling might be wrong] hate us really and there 20% of the country and of them its about 10% who are actually actively against the usa...
these numbers from npr whose to grossely understate, not too pro-bush and the war..
we are helping them in the long term

[Broken]

i think every other country hates america because are army is bigger and better then yours

go to hell hippies :hippy:

[Enos]

i think every other country hates america because are army is bigger and better then yours

go to hell hippies :hippy:

Um, China.

And it's not how big it is, it's what you do with it. The US needs to learn to keep it's in it's pants.

[Broken]

Um, China.

And it's not how big it is, it's what you do with it. The US needs to learn to keep it's in it's pants.

1 0n 1 the U.S. can beat any country yes even china

[Nodbugger]

korean war:

u.s. with allied u.n. troops signed peace agreement to korea and china

16 vs 2 , you lost :rolleyes:

That was in the 50's. Right after we spent billions saving Europe, Africa, and Asia.

What is the 16 V 2 all about?

[Broken]

korean war:

u.s. with allied u.n. troops signed peace agreement to korea and china

16 vs 2 , you lost :rolleyes:

koren war is still really happening it is just takeing a break no one won or lost U.S. still sends troops to korea they stopped because U.S. and China are the only 2 super powers and we don't want world war 3. U.S. is also the only countries with nukes that can go anywhere in the world(we even have the best missle defence) so if we needed to we could beat china without losing 1 solider but we dont because that would most likely turn every 1 against U.S. and there would be no world left

Nukeualr war is Evil

[Nodbugger]

another thing i can think of, more close to the topic, is

u.s. vs iraq is yet to be decided who is the loser

an undeniable fact: no MDWs in iraq...

Um...the fact that we totally got rid of their ruling power and they are voting for a new government tomorrow pretty much means we beat Iraq.

Plus that may be a fact now, but it was not a fact a couple years ago.

[Bostonmess]

i think every other country hates america because are army is bigger and better then yours

go to hell hippies :hippy:

But mainly it's 'cos your grammar sucks. :D

China could kick America's ass any day of the week, they know martial arts and they invented gunpowder.

[Broken]

But mainly it's 'cos your grammar sucks. :D

China could kick America's ass any day of the week, they know martial arts and they invented gunpowder.

i sure as hell hope you are jokeing look it up

1.U.S.A.
2.China
3.Russia
4.England

[Nodbugger]

"koren war is still really happening it is just takeing a break"

im surprised it hasnt finished yet...


"U.S. is also the only countries with nukes that can go anywhere in the world(we even have the best missle defence) so if we needed to we could beat china without losing 1 solider"

how many have you lost in iraq so far, in a country without MDWs?

China wouldn't stoop as low as what the insurgents and terrorist are doing in Iraq.

[Broken]

"koren war is still really happening it is just takeing a break"

im surprised it hasnt finished yet...


"U.S. is also the only countries with nukes that can go anywhere in the world(we even have the best missle defence) so if we needed to we could beat china without losing 1 solider"

how many have you lost in iraq so far, in a country without MDWs?

we only lose soliders because of the tree hugging hippies who live in america who bitch at every thing or else 1 or 2 nukes and there wouldnt be an Iraq left

[Scythe]

U.S. is also the only countries with nukes that can go anywhere in the world(we even have the best missle defence)

The U.S is the only country with a missile defence, because everybody else seems to realise that not only has no missile defence ever actually worked, it also violates several international treaties.

Build a missile defence, and someone will build a better missile.

China wouldn't stoop as low as what the insurgents and terrorist are doing in Iraq.

Try walking through Tiananmen Square with a sign declaring you are a member of Falun Gong and try saying that.

[Bostonmess]

i sure as hell hope you are jokeing look it up

1.China
2.Russia
3.England
4.Luxembourg

Joking about what? Your grammar? Or the well known fact that the Chinese could annihilate the US at the drop of a chop stick?

[Nodbugger]

The U.S is the only country with a missile defence, because everybody else seems to realise that not only has no missile defence ever actually worked, it also violates several international treaties.

Build a missile defence, and someone will build a better missile.

So if at first you don't succeed, pull a scythe and quit?

[Broken]

The U.S is the only country with a missile defence, because everybody else seems to realise that not only has no missile defence ever actually worked, it also violates several international treaties.

Build a missile defence, and someone will build a better missile.

the problem with that is they don't have technoglgy/money to build one and if they did U.S. would probley stop them from doing so

[Broken]

Joking about what? Your grammar? Or the well known fact that the Chinese could annihilate the US at the drop of a chop stick?

if the best you can do is attack my grammer then you might as well give up go home and ask your mommy to shove you back up her ass because the U.S. army is smaller then the Chinese army but they have much better techongly and weapons

[Bostonmess]

They might have better techongly and weapons but they're nowhere near as good at fighting.

[Nodbugger]

"China wouldn't stoop as low as what the insurgents and terrorist are doing in Iraq."

any evidence...?

They are a conventional army, that is the way they fight. Plus they are Chinese, it is part of their culture.

[Nodbugger]

They might have better techongly and weapons but they're nowhere near as good at fighting.

Who told you that lie?

[Bostonmess]

Their techongly is so advanced they don't even know how to fly their helicopters.

[Broken]

They might have better techongly and weapons but they're nowhere near as good at fighting.

why fiight when you can just push a button?

look back at WWII U.S. defetead Japan with only 2 nukes and now we have even better nukes

[polite]

we only lose soliders because of the tree hugging hippies who live in america who bitch at every thing or else 1 or 2 nukes and there wouldnt be an Iraq left

Now you seem like a bright lad, so here's a suggestion. Go away and do a quick study on human anatomy, especially the cranial area. Next load your gun, and with the help of a mirror, shoot yourself in the head.If possible could you videotape it and arrange for it to be sent to Noddy. A quick tip: organise this BEFORE you pull the trigger.A note written in crayon for your Mommy should do.

[Bostonmess]

Who told you that lie?


It's the truth. Look at Jet Li.

I rest my case.

[Nodbugger]

Their techongly is so advanced they don't even know how to fly their helicopters.

Fly a helicopter, then make that comment.

[Nodbugger]

it is part of their culture????

it seems you know this culture pretty well :aah:

american born chinese????

I don't know it very well. But I know enough to know how they would fight. Guerrilla warfare would not be a problem with them.

[Scythe]

So if at first you don't succeed, pull a scythe and quit?

After spending several decades on research and hundreds of billions of dollars on a project which has yet to produce a single consistently working prototype?

I'd certainly try thinking of an alternative.

I'm don't quite know why you associate me and quitting, since i've managed to stick with eighteen straight years in the Australian education system, but I suppose if that's the best you can come up with in the way of a witty insult, i'll just have to live with the pain.

[Broken]

I don't know it very well. But I know enough to know how they would fight. Guerrilla warfare would not be a problem with them.

yes because they are a commuist country they will fight head on instead of hideing and waiting

[Bostonmess]

why fiight when you can just push a button?

look back at WWII U.S. defetead Japan with only 2 nukes and now we have even better nukes


Fuck me, that's typical isn't it. You're a remote control fool, that attitudes why you're all so overweight in the first place.

[Nodbugger]

After spending several decades on research and hundreds of billions of dollars on a project which has yet to produce a single consistently working prototype?

I'd certainly try thinking of an alternative.

I'm don't quite know why you associate me and quitting, since i've managed to stick with eighteen straight years in the Australian education system, but I suppose if that's the best you can come up with in the way of a witty insult, i'll just have to live with the pain.

well it seems you would rather have them just give up on it as whole. If we took that we wouldn't have WD-40 or Heinz Ketchup, forget just about every invention or innovation ever.

[Broken]

It's the truth. Look at Jet Li.

I rest my case.

yes Jet Li was a great fight but he can't stop a bomb with his bare hands can he?

[Bostonmess]

Fly a helicopter, then make that comment.

I can't fly a helicopter, the techongly is too advanced so I wouldn't even try.

[Scythe]

well it seems you would rather have them just give up on it as whole. If we took that we wouldn't have WD-40 or Heinz Ketchup, forget just about every invention or innovation ever.

Give up on what as a whole? Military research? Can you be more specific?

I honestly don't know enough about all the projects the military is researching to talk about whether they should all be cut, I just know that if you can spend that much money and time on something that would only be temporarily effective anyway, somebody in the Pentagon needs to do a serious rethink.

[Broken]

Fuck me, that's typical isn't it. You're a remote control fool, that attitudes why you're all so overweight in the first place.

well when you have the technogly to kill your enemy without being in danger and you dont take it you are a fool also most americans are not overweight only a few are well mostly rednecks :)

[Bostonmess]

yes Jet Li was a great fight but he can't stop a bomb with his bare hands can he?

I've seen 007 do it, I don't see why Jet Li can't.

[Broken]

I've seen 007 do it, I don't see why Jet Li can't.

cuz 007 was british lol

also cuz Jet Li is dead

[Bostonmess]

well when you have the technogly to kill your enemy without being in danger and you dont take it you are a fool also most americans are not overweight only a few are well mostly rednecks :)


Where is your honour? Where is your courage? Where is your conviction?

Technogly means Jack Babba, if you haven't got balls.

[Bostonmess]

cuz 007 was british lol

also cuz Jet Li is dead

Now you're just being racist, I don't see why the Chinese aren't everybit as clever as an MI6 secret service agent. I bet they can fly their helicopters.

[Broken]

Where is your honour? Where is your courage? Where is your conviction?

Technogly means Jack Babba, if you haven't got balls.

well i can't give honor and courage and to everyone also i would not risk other's lives when they don't need to die

[Broken]

Now you're just being racist, I don't see why the Chinese aren't everybit as clever as an MI6 secret service agent. I bet they can fly their helicopters.

tommarow never dies the chinse angent was hot and good as a spy

[Bostonmess]

well i can't give honor and courage and to everyone also i would not risk other's lives when they don't need to die

Are you the man in charge?

[Broken]

Are you the man in charge?

no i just wouldn't if i was

dont forget Vote Broken for president in 2008

[Broken]

you dont have to risk any ones life, when you have the courage to forgive someone...

what do you mean forgive?

[Bostonmess]

no i just wouldn't if i was

dont forget Vote Broken for president in 2008

But if you were the man in the field, wouldn't you want to have balls? It's all well and good talking a good fight but you need be able to do it too for others to believe in you.

That's why everyone thinks GWB is a liar, 'Cos he's a scum sucking coward, he shat his pants to stay out of Vietnam. Cheney too. They're all macaroni men.

[Broken]

like what china did to japan on tokyo war criminal court, if you know anything about sino japan war...

its cuz China and Japan don't like each other like France and England

[Bostonmess]

I like France.

[Broken]

But if you were the man in the field, wouldn't you want to have balls? It's all well and good talking a good fight but you need be able to do it too for others to believe in you.

That's why everyone thinks GWB is a liar, 'Cos he's a scum sucking coward, he shat his pants to stay out of Vietnam. Cheney too. They're all macaroni men.

yes i think he sholud have went but im still glad he won over kerry because kerry went didnt do anything got medals he didnt deserve and then burned them afterwards to follow the crowd afterwards

bush is not the best president but he is still best choice we have hopefully we will eventually get a good president in 2008 i do believe bush has balls though i think if he was young he would go to the iraq war

[Broken]

I like France.

where are you from?

[Bostonmess]

Bush is the biggest coward going. Saddam offered to fight him one on one on neutral ground, hand to hand, but Bush crapped 'em. I must admit, Bush does act like he's punch drunk though.

[Bostonmess]

where are you from?

More importantly: where am I going?

[Broken]

'its cuz China and Japan don't like each other...'

wrong :rolleyes:

china forgave japan. considering the economic situation in japan at the time, china waved the compensation.
ok go to Japan and start talking about how great china is if you walk out alive ill believe you

[Broken]

More importantly: where am I going?
ok where are you going then?

[Enos]

ok go to Japan and start talking about how great china is if you walk out alive ill believe you

Please stop, we already have one Noddy and that's quite enough.

[Broken]

Bush is the biggest coward going. Saddam offered to fight him one on one on neutral ground, hand to hand, but Bush crapped 'em. I must admit, Bush does act like he's punch drunk though.
thats so fake bush would take that in a second saddam would have lied anyways he would just have a sniper or some1 kill bush if he did show up

although i would pay to see bush and saddam fight one on one tho hmmmm pay perview would make a serious bank

[Bostonmess]

On neutral ground, there would be no sniper.

ok where are you going then?

I'm off to bed, 'night.

[s3raph]

I'd say the real suicide is going to North Korea and talking about how great Japan is. You'd be in a non-existent prison, being used as a guinea pig for non-existent chemical weapons in no time.

[beachcomber]

The insurgents for killing so many of their own people

[Sabra]

I think Trey and Matt summed it up best...

Stan: "Why does 2/3 of the world hate us?"
Afghan Kid: "Because you don't realise that 2/3 of the world hates you."

And FYI: Iraq is nowhere near being a threat to the US in any way at the present time, so the US is:
(a) Trying to police the world again
(b) Just there cause they gots less oil than they used to
(c) All of the above

Just TRY saying that the politicians in Washington give two shits about the Iraqi people. I dare you.

[Grumblefish]

Wait, someone is trying to say that China forgave Japan for past wars? Hahahahahhahahahhahahhaahhaah

[Grumblefish]

Standard conversation about Japan in Beijing:


A: So about those Japs.
B: Yep, God, I hate them. They are brutal monsters.
A: Indeed, if only America would blow them up with another nuclear bomb.
Me: Wait... what? Did you just say what I think you said?
A: It's only honesty; Japs are terrible people - GAN BEI!
*all drink*

You can mix in a few conversations about how the Japanese economy is a horrendous monster that must be boycotted by all Chinese people, or something about how Japan doesn't understand history.

[munganah]

all little from column a and a little from column b

[antiwar]

potentially explosive thread.

greedy ,warmongering,infiltrated ,bloodthirsty,third agenda'ists,proud arrogant and gung ho to boot.

is this an oxymoron, faulty intelligence??

anyway i blame the plutocracies disguised awfully as democracies...
as for doing iraqis a service ,wtf?? yeah their you go see the new house haliburton half built for you ,after we bombed the fuck out of your original house . and tell ali the 12 yr old we have put a wheelchair ramp for him and his prothetics will be built once we can arrange a press conference .see this pipe this takes the shit out into the ditch in the street ,electricity youll be lucky ,clean water haha , well im told piss is bacteria free dear iraqi, hang on some 1 has asked talabani to make a decision , let me grab the strings its time for my puppetmasteer routine etc,etc ..

not to mention so called uk soldiers dress as mahdi millitia men , driving a tatty toyota cressida which was wired to explode ,they were even found in posession of remote detotantors..and heading towards a shite festival in basra ..
zarqawi does not exist in iraq..
i havent touched on the mercenaries in iraq whihc number probably in the tens of thousands all with a license to kill and free from any pushment like mnf forces.

[antiwar]

iraq is going to be a battlefield for the next fews yrs . if the neocons get their way the battlefield they will have created under various pretences will stretch from aghanistan to iran and to iraq. that is a massive area ,
bill krystals project for american century is nothing but a hallucination or wet dream .

g dumbya bush announced mission over yrs ago ,why have the iraqis stoped showering the usa with flowers , haha maybe like the ancient chinese they as a society maybe infatuated with fireworks

good luck usa

[AzureDreams]

both sides are equally fucked in their own unique ways

have a banana :banana:


I will enjoy this banana with all of its bananay goodness. :love:

[Nodbugger]

I think Trey and Matt summed it up best...

Stan: "Why does 2/3 of the world hate us?"
Afghan Kid: "Because you don't realise that 2/3 of