Which distro?

[s3raph]

I've been wanting to get a linux partition up and running for a while now except whenever I got around to doing it I would usually spend the week afterwards fixing my computer, and putting all my files back (due to red hats messing with the partitioning tables I've been told). Anyways now that I'm planning on doing it all again I'm wondering which distro I should use considering I've got only beginners experience with linux, and don't want my computer to collapse into a quivering heap. Any other pieces of wisdom would also be very welcome.

[lostreality]

Beginners?

Then go for Mandrake

http://www.mandrakesoft.com/

[sagit]

suse is also v good

[s3raph]

I didn't really like mandrake 9.2. It was kind of.... bad. I've heard good things about SuSe and debian though?

[fastfood]

i found bootpart
http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm
to be very useful in sorting out the booting partitions crap, and i had partitions in the places where they suggest you dont have them (windows in the second, linux in the first)
its also useful for having mutilpe windows boots, if you need to

[fastfood]

i installed debian, and it fucked up my partitions (its not really made for dual booting i guess) anyway, that bootpart fixed it up

other advice: get a distro with a package manager, nothing like dependency hell to turn your hair grey. debian has one (apt-get), redhat has (rpm i think)

[s3raph]

Nah I don't plan on using anything that would fuck me up. I'm tired of having to reinstall windows, and put all my files back it really, really sucks. I just want something that I can install without worrying about it messing anything up.

[Juice Biscuit]

I didn't really like mandrake 9.2. It was kind of.... bad. I've heard good things about SuSe and debian though?
No offense but bad is a shit answer. If you tell us why you thought it was bad that may help in either fixing the problem or pointing you somewhere else.

[s3raph]

I know bad is a shit answer, but I was under the impression that most people knew that it was fairly buggy. It would crash, often, it had unusual issues with my graphics card, would lose files, and those are just the problems that I can remember.

[Juice Biscuit]

I have been using Linux since 99 now and I don't have the problems with mandrake that others always claim, I always refer noobies to it. I don't come across the bugs that everyone else claims to recieve.

But then again all my work and study is done on Redhat, Suse and debian. But I do go back to Mandrake to see how its going and I have to say that its installer and package management is great.

If you just free up some space for the linux partions and the boot loader, you won't have to re-install windows. You might want to give some Live distros a go instead though, that way you don't have to install anything.

[locust]

I hear very good things about Ubuntu. It's Debian pared down slightly, made more stable and user friendly.

Just make sure when you're installing that you don't pick the "use my entire hard drive and wipe out everything that's currently on it" if you want to dual boot.

[s3raph]

Well I've successfully installed Mandrake before, and then all my problems began when I tried red hat and fedora. Hows SuSe for a dual boot system? I mean thats what I mainly want from this other than, of course, quality.

[Juice Biscuit]

Fine either using grub or Lilo will be the same as other distros, but you can also not install to the bootloader and use a floppy disk to boot. That way you wont have to worry about removing it later.

[wolfpac181]

how good are you with *nix commands? can you set up X? or do you need a PnP style that tosses you right into a desktop after loading?

Mandrake 10 is way better than the 9. collection. Could hit that. It got cleaned up fairly nicely since 9. Downside, mandrake is a big distro.

If you're worried about dual booting, use knoppix and created a small /home partition on like a zip disc or media card. then can use that for saving files. Downside is that it's slow.

could also try mandrakemove live CD with a usb key. This is actually faster than knoppix, but still slow.

config lilo for using an external HDD for linux. I've done this before and it's nice!
downside is DON'T LOOSE lilo floppy!!!!

[Asmodeus]

Redhat from what I recall was nice and friendly on its install, suse and debian weren't all that bad either.

Slackware was actually pretty good with its setup as well and worked fine right outof the box and with very little bloat. Updates and installing new software can be a pain as i don't recall much about its dependency checking.

On teh other side of that coin, is Gentoo which I always recommend. as long as you can follow the (mostly) easy and (somewhat) painless but longer installation process (instructions included) its a very good distro to use and i feel its software packaging is second to none IMHO. If you want to look into that, go to gentoo.org and ook at the user manual, and keep in mind you will most likely use a stage-3 install, which cuts out most of the manual as far as setup. yes, an installer fo rit would be nice, but its so flexible its hard to make one.

used redhat, debian & slackware for a year each, gentoo since then... 2-3 or so years i reckon.

[DrDivad]

I've started messing with Mandrake 10.1, a lot of it is still way over my head, but i'm getting there...

I whacked in an old 10gig drive to run linux off, keeps it away from my windows stuff, can still read my windows crap obviously but the no write support for NTFS is pants,...also SATA and linux, gah no mixo! i can't for the life of me to get it to work....but there are isolated tribes in the pacific who are better linux admisn than me.

[Asmodeus]

try something not based off an early 2.4 kernel i believe.

if you are using a 2.6.x kernel, when running `make menuconfig` look in drivers->scsi->low level scsi drivers->SATA support or something similiar. i don't hve my machie in front of me so im just going by memory. as per usual, sinceits needed to boot, comiple it into the kernel, not as a module.

[DrDivad]

sadly, since i'm so new, that made zero sense to me :D

[Asmodeus]

best advice probably then, get windows XP, if that still doesn't make sense, get a mac.

[s3raph]

Damn dude that was a bit harsh.

[Asmodeus]

I <3 my Intolerance :)

Nah really tho, I don't recommend linux for a lot of people for exactly this reason. Most want to just be able to turn it on and go and fulfil whatever purpose they got their machine for. No harm no foul in that, When I turn on a light switch I want the light to go on, which I know the entire process involved, i could give a fuck. I just want the light on.

To a degree, I blame the overly user friendly distros. where people complain about the westernization or americanization of thier culture, I complain about the wind0zization (god thats a horrid looking construct of a word) on linux. Its not a user friendly operating system to the level of the average windows user quite yet, but its being over marketed as if it were. To make it more friendly, they're neatly eliminated a lot of the annoying documentation in favor of a half bodged up bit of 'just make it work' philosophy which really seems to be what got windows fucked over in teh first place.

Yes, i'm very much a RTFM person, i'm not sorry about it, i mostly had to teach myself this operating system and theres a whole iternet out ther ehell bent on supporting it with an unbeleiveable wealth of information and walkthroughs.. tho had he said 'i read through a bunch of stuff and its still not working or i just dont get it' id usually be more than inclined to help. But to just go duh, and smile about it.. please, do us a favor and go back to windows. the internet doesn't need another hacked warez ftp.

[wolfpac181]

To a degree I'm backing up ya on this Asmo.

wind0zization (I love this freakin word now) has made people really stupid when it comes to a PC. I totally agree that "if you don't know how it works, then dont use it". There use to be a day when Every person out there knew how to do small repairs on their Car; Fix the alternator, change oil, etc. Now those days are gone too.

Yes, RTFM. BUT..... if you HAVE the WANT to learn, then the people who have "been there, done that" should help. My Father taught me how to fix my old Slant-6 when I knew nothing, and now I know something fuctional. should be the same way for PC's.

and Mac's have changed Asmo.... I use command line more than anything now in them cause of the BSD backbone on it. Use ton's of ported apps like GIMP, OpenOffice, Emulators, etc..... BSD with aquaWM. nothing more.

[Asmodeus]

thats mostly the point, you have to want, but also have to try first. I see i here at the office a lot. someones looking at a manual for some software and they're like.. well, it looks too complicated. to which i have to ask usually if they have even tried it yet. but a lot of times i hear a no, becuase they just think the instructions look complicated.

helping out i do, holding people hand, spoon feeding knowledge, or doing it for them i don't have the time or energy for. im too busy learning other things.

*gasp* mac with a command line? next thing you'll be telling me they actually have more than one mouse button. wolfie, you're such a kidder

anyways, back on topic..
so... what kind of update system does mandrake have, or is it just downloading the source off the net and installing it somewhere before you do your setup.

having fun with the game server i'm setting up. gentoo, linux sata raid 0, HT support. that parts done, now just hardening it so the security will be tighter thana nuns cunt. fun fun fun

[wolfpac181]

Mandrake has a Urpmi frontend. mostly needs subscriptions, but easily hackable with correct ftp:mirrors. quite nice to DL packages on the fly without needing CD's. so used for security updates, and new package installation:)
also has a update at begining of installation. mostly for bug fixes.

back to what ya said. Yeah, they have to want.... I've found myself being new and not knowing a damn thing. getting lost in manpages and messageboards. All I really needed was the "where do I really start?" answer. just needed someone who's been there to give direction. hell, that's what everyone needs, startoff points.

OSX is BSD, can use 2 button mice, and does have command line terminal.

[DrDivad]

pffft whingers

i didn't ask for any instruction, jsut having a whinge,

i don't expect to turn it on and have it work, but i sure can't turn it on and suddenly know all the command and everything about how it works can i?

In time i'll figure out all this compiling biznatch and so on and so forth, but some stuff (obviously approaching it from the wrong mental angle) just makes no logical sense to me.

./configre = no compiler

try to install a compiler need other stuff

try to install other stuff, needs compiler

and i go, bah! must be an easier way, i jsut need me a book or something...

and then my recent favourite, install radeon drivers...crap drivers already installed,..try to uninstall other ones, command to do so seems not to exist!

again with the hole in my knowledge obviously,...



in short i was merely commenting, and here i am again, merely commenting, so cram it if you feel like flaming me...

[DrDivad]

If it helps any, i've since read a smidge more on stuff and i can now decipher what you're on about with the drivers, but compiling still a bit beyond me,

just all the concepts and terminology and commands to get your head around...


oh and for the record, if i want some direct help, i'll directly ask for it, may help avoid any 'issues'.

[s3raph]

The compiler is included in the operating system. Just to be sure you know a compiler is a piece of software that is used to turn source code (C source code has a .c extension) into a functioning program. If you look it up online you'll find out how to use the compiler, its pretty simple command line stuff, so you should be right.

[Asmodeus]

yeah, and dont forget make files..

when all else fails, try `make install` first ;)

as for kernels, download and uncompress kernel source, type `make menuconfig` and go nuts

[DrDivad]

Soo...correct me if I'm wrong here, cos I probably am..

To get Sata support i need source for the 'drivers' and in order for these to run properly on boot they need to be compiled into my kernel.

Can i locate the existing kernel in the install and amend such a thing to it (assuming i locate drivers and figure out all the between steps, ust talking conceptually here) or do i need to download a new kernal and compile that?

During my fiddling i seem to have managed to get GCC running so i have a compiler...mandrake seems not to come with one, many "./configure"'s reported back to me complaining of non-existence of the 'cc' command. But now they work so i guess the compiler is happy.

[Asmodeus]

that is the wierdest thing i've ever heard.

Yeha, would seem best bet is to get themost recent kernel source, and go from there. SATA support comes in in kernel. compile it in, dont set it as a module.

cd /usr/src/linux
make menuconfig
... config the sucker
make all && make modules_install
cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/kernel-2.6-new
edit bootloader config to use that one (leave choice for other in case you fuck up)
reboot
profit

[exekewtable]

make all and make modules_install is too old school.
get with the program man.
its make rpm or my favourite - make-kpkg kernel-image

dave

[Asmodeus]

rpm's are the work of some sadistic assclown who wants to be satan and are only marginally better than teh BSD package system vs their decently better ports system.

I'm playing with openBSD right now while setting up a web/ftp server for my upcoming site (details on this later, itll be so cool) and hmm.. yeah, definitely I don't recommend the BSD system in general for the average uninitiated new to anything not windows. When they speak of the general non userfriendlyness of (li/u)nix I think they were using BSD.. heh.

[slacker]

if you're into computers and have had some remote shell experience, id say go for slackware.

thats what i did several years ago, and i learned SO MUCH from it that within months i became an intermediate user of linux. ill never claim myself advanced because there's way too much hardcore shit you can do in linux.

but anyway, i dont want to start too much of a flamewar on this, but i hear a lot of the user friendly/automatic distros can give users a hard time sometimes (ie: if you try to compile your own program, the package system wont recognise it and will delete it or replace it with its own package). i havent experienced this myself, but ive just heard small stories like these which turn me off these type of distros. slackware doesnt break too easily, and keeps the tradition of the user configuring the system themself.

if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself, right?