View Full Version : Video shows US soldiers in ‘Ramadi Madness’ abuse
Bostonmess
10-03-2005, 04:41 AM
WASHINGTON: US Army soldiers in Iraq filmed themselves kicking a gravely wounded prisoner in the face and making the arm of a corpse appear to wave, then titled the effort “Ramadi Madness” after the city where it was made.
Florida National Guard soldiers filmed the video made public on Monday. They edited and compiled it into a DVD on January 2004, with various sections bearing the titles “Those Crafty Little Bastards” and “Another Day, Another Mission, Another Scumbag.”
The video’s existence was revealed in Army documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union under court order through the Freedom of Information Act. The Pentagon did not release the video, saying it believed the video had been destroyed. However, a Florida newspaper ‘The Palm Beach Post’ found it and posted some parts of it on their Web site on Monday.
The American Civil Liberties Unions has obtained thousands of documents from the Pentagon and said that they show a pattern of detainee abuses by military forces in Iraq. Soldiers depicted in the new video would not face criminal charges, said the Pentagon. One section of the video showed a bound and wounded prisoner sprawled on the ground, and showed his bullet entry and exit wounds. At one point, a US soldier kicked the prisoner in the face. Army documents quoted a soldier at the scene saying he “thought the dude eventually died. We weren’t in any hurry to call the medics.” In another part of the video, a soldier grabbed the arm of a truck driver who had just been shot dead and made the corpse wave to the camera. The events that preceded the incident were not shown on the video. The newspaper reported that US troops had stopped the truck and ordered the driver to step out but he ran back into the vehicle and sped away only to be shot dead by an American soldier.
Documents released by the Pentagon showed that Army criminal investigators looked into the matter and decided no criminal charges were warranted against the soldiers. Documents showed that the Army deemed the actions shown on the video “inappropriate” rather than criminal. “According to the investigations, it didn’t rise to the level of criminal abuse,” said Lt Col Jeremy Martin, an Army spokesman at the Pentagon. “Clearly, the soldiers probably exercised poor judgment and I’m sure that they were admonished by their command for their actions.”
Meanwhile, another set of documents said that an army sergeant was given a psychiatric examination and sent out of Iraq after he reported that members of his counter-intelligence team in Samarra were abusing prisoners.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-3-2005_pg7_9
Nodbugger
10-03-2005, 12:33 PM
I don't care.
Good. Does that mean you'll shut up now?
Merudo
10-03-2005, 01:12 PM
I don't care.
I've made an interesting observation - You care when you believe you can form some sort of rebuttal (however incoherent and illogical) to an argument against US soldiers, but when completely at odds with the situation, and you can't see any way to retort, you just say you don't care.
Funnily enough, nobody asked if you cared, either.
:)
Nodbugger
10-03-2005, 01:32 PM
I've made an interesting observation - You care when you believe you can form some sort of rebuttal (however incoherent and illogical) to an argument against US soldiers, but when completely at odds with the situation, and you can't see any way to retort, you just say you don't care.
Funnily enough, nobody asked if you cared, either.
:)
I don't care that they did any of that stuff. It doesn't bother me at all.
Juice Biscuit
10-03-2005, 01:40 PM
Makes you wonder why the Iraqi's haven't come running to embrace the US way of life.
Nodbugger
10-03-2005, 01:42 PM
Makes you wonder why the Iraqi's haven't come running to embrace the US way of life.
They did, you just were not paying attention.
Merudo
10-03-2005, 01:49 PM
They did, you just were not paying attention.
*nods*
I guess these kinds of acts do always take the limelight, huh.
I guess the frequency of these sorts of acts also help keep it in the news, hey.
Juice Biscuit
10-03-2005, 01:55 PM
They did, you just were not paying attention.
Really cause looking at the last election results they don't appear to like that part about seperation of religion and state.
What kind of mindset must you have to be able to kick "a gravely wounded prisoner in the face"?
I don't understand. I cannot see a situation where I could ever do that.
But still, I would rather be kicked in the face than killed. I won't condone this sort of thing, but I can imagine it happens quite a bit.
Nodbugger
10-03-2005, 02:28 PM
What kind of mindset must you have to be able to kick "a gravely wounded prisoner in the face"?
I don't understand. I cannot see a situation where I could ever do that.
But still, I would rather be kicked in the face than killed. I won't condone this sort of thing, but I can imagine it happens quite a bit.
I think what they were doing before they were a gravely wounded prisoner justifies it.
Nodbugger
10-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Really cause looking at the last election results they don't appear to like that part about seperation of religion and state.
Neither does most of America, in the sense you are talking about.
Juice Biscuit
10-03-2005, 02:41 PM
Neither does most of America, in the sense you are talking about.
So what you're saying is that by voting more on Religous values than ones ability to govern they haven't taken the US approach.
Or are you saying that they have instead decieded to become Muhommad freaks.
Thank you,
Up_All_Night
10-03-2005, 05:04 PM
How would you feel if it was iraqi insurgents doing it to a gravely wounded us soilder who had just been doing it to a gravely wounded iraqi insurgent?
fuzz!
10-03-2005, 05:12 PM
How would you feel if it was iraqi insurgents doing it to a gravely wounded us soilder who had just been doing it to a gravely wounded iraqi insurgent?
hmm.. how about someone doing it to a gravely wounded george bush.
here is the video
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/palmbeachpost/video/haj11_bloodclot.mov
Hairyman
10-03-2005, 07:48 PM
The abuse of wounded prisoners is a war crime.
Juice Biscuit
10-03-2005, 07:55 PM
The abuse of wounded prisoners is a war crime.
Only if they happen to be white.
Don't forget Iraqi's are more of a Brown Colour.
Nodbugger
11-03-2005, 12:14 AM
How would you feel if it was iraqi insurgents doing it to a gravely wounded us soilder who had just been doing it to a gravely wounded iraqi insurgent?
I wouldn't like it, but that doesn't matter. Besides they do worse, they shoot them in the head then cut off their head.
Nodbugger
11-03-2005, 12:14 AM
Only if they happen to be white.
Don't forget Iraqi's are more of a Brown Colour.
Who the fuck do you think you are? More than half the military is not white.
Go fuck yourself.
Who the fuck do you think you are? More than half the military is not white.
Really?
Thats interesting, seeing as 75% of the US population is white.
Juice Biscuit
11-03-2005, 12:54 AM
Go fuck yourself.
Useless if I don't turn it into a video
Who the fuck do you think you are? More than half the military is not white.
So it's the grunts that decide what a war crime is now?
Funny, having Black and Latino people in the Vietnam war didn't prevent My Lai.
You sack of mixed man jizm
Nodbugger
11-03-2005, 11:04 AM
Really?
Thats interesting, seeing as 75% of the US population is white.
If I could find the numbers I would show you.
Nodbugger
11-03-2005, 11:08 AM
Useless if I don't turn it into a video
So it's the grunts that decide what a war crime is now?
Funny, having Black and Latino people in the Vietnam war didn't prevent My Lai.
You sack of mixed man jizm
My Lai was overblown, reports said enemies were there, they went in an torched the place, no enemies had been there at them time they torched it, but they later found tunnels under the village belonging to the enemy.
Yes, they decide. You know why? Because they are going to do it. Unless you have been in war you should have no say in how it is run. What is the point of war if you cannot do some of these things? With the way many countries today work you have to be like that. 100+ years ago wars may have been fought by Gentleman, but now the Gentleman have their arms tied behind their back because their enemy is composed of Savages.
Merudo
11-03-2005, 11:19 AM
Who the fuck do you think you are? More than half the military is not white.
Go fuck yourself.
you totally missed the fucking point of that.
Up_All_Night
11-03-2005, 04:02 PM
Yes, they decide. You know why? Because they are going to do it. Unless you have been in war you should have no say in how it is run. What is the point of war if you cannot do some of these things? With the way many countries today work you have to be like that. 100+ years ago wars may have been fought by Gentleman, but now the Gentleman have their arms tied behind their back because their enemy is composed of Savages.
dude what the fuck is wrong with you?
you really have no clue do you?
"with the ways countries work"?? a statement like that just says oddles about your lack of knowledge... name a country that does that shit? and u cant say iraq because its people in the country doing that, not country policy.
but yeah so you dont believe in setting a good example? If your country goes around the world being arrogant dicks, saying you're the greatest and so forth. you even said you believe you're best culture.. You dont think theirs an obligation to be responsible? To do the right thing?
how can u expect your enemys to follow international law if you dont yourself?
you're just shocking noddy, you have to be someone taking the piss, cause seriously man, dude, fuck... you boggle the mind
Juice Biscuit
11-03-2005, 04:14 PM
My Lai was overblown, reports said enemies were there, they went in an torched the place, no enemies had been there at them time they torched it, but they later found tunnels under the village belonging to the enemy.
Yes, they decide. You know why? Because they are going to do it. Unless you have been in war you should have no say in how it is run. What is the point of war if you cannot do some of these things? With the way many countries today work you have to be like that. 100+ years ago wars may have been fought by Gentleman, but now the Gentleman have their arms tied behind their back because their enemy is composed of Savages.
Really cause Wikipedia says that they lined up the women and children in a line and gunned them down with machine guns..
But I'm only going by the evidance of the people who were actually there, so yeah, what would I know.
If you don't like the wiki evidance I can dig up more if it would make you feel better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
Also states that they guy who was found guilty of ordering the attack only recieved 3 years house arrest.
Hairyman
11-03-2005, 09:17 PM
War crimes can never be condoned by a civil society. It is the height of hipocrisy to cry for justice and freedom and then declare "What is the point of war if you cannot do some of these things? [referring to unlawful acts of violence]".
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 12:12 AM
dude what the fuck is wrong with you?
you really have no clue do you?
"with the ways countries work"?? a statement like that just says oddles about your lack of knowledge... name a country that does that shit? and u cant say iraq because its people in the country doing that, not country policy.
but yeah so you dont believe in setting a good example? If your country goes around the world being arrogant dicks, saying you're the greatest and so forth. you even said you believe you're best culture.. You dont think theirs an obligation to be responsible? To do the right thing?
how can u expect your enemys to follow international law if you dont yourself?
you're just shocking noddy, you have to be someone taking the piss, cause seriously man, dude, fuck... you boggle the mind
Hey shit head, they stopped following international law LONG before we did. If we handi-cap ourselves when fighting an enemy that deserves every possible bad thing, we won't do very good. And you would love to see American and coalition soldiers die. You love every single second of it. Sick bastard.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 12:13 AM
War crimes can never be condoned by a civil society. It is the height of hipocrisy to cry for justice and freedom and then declare "What is the point of war if you cannot do some of these things? [referring to unlawful acts of violence]".
No it isn't you retard. A civil society can change what it does at any time. That is what makes them civil, the change to the situation. If a horde of savage head hunters attack them they would not throw pillows and follow international law, they would change to much more brutal tactics to defeat their already Brutal enemy.
A civil society must be rational, you are not rational and do not belong in modern society.
And you would love to see American and coalition soldiers die. You love every single second of it. Sick bastard.
I highly doubt it. I for one don't to see any deaths for the US soldiers and *our* coaltion soldiers. See here is the thing nodbugger. Just like I dont think its fair for the US soldiers to treat their POWs etc the way they do, I also would hate to see them receiving the same punishment.
I truly wish every soldier could have returned home safe. unrealistic of course. Its a pity they were even there.
No it isn't you retard. A civil society can change what it does at any time. That is what makes them civil, the change to the situation. If a horde of savage head hunters attack them they would not throw pillows and follow international law, they would change to much more brutal tactics to defeat their already Brutal enemy.
A civil society must be rational, you are not rational and do not belong in modern society.
Actually, I vote Hairyman to be the most rational person in the War forum. Go back and read his posts - very rational.
Ins0mniac
12-03-2005, 02:25 AM
I think what they were doing before they were a gravely wounded prisoner justifies it.
What were they doing before then?
Up_All_Night
12-03-2005, 03:00 AM
Hey shit head, they stopped following international law LONG before we did. If we handi-cap ourselves when fighting an enemy that deserves every possible bad thing, we won't do very good. And you would love to see American and coalition soldiers die. You love every single second of it. Sick bastard.
hey shit head, they arent a nation, they arent a government, they aint following a political decision, acceptance
you would love to see American and coalition soldiers die. You love every single second of it. Sick bastard.
this is why people dont like you and consider you to be a complete tool. You throw out such utterly stupid comments in a well, worlds dumbest attempt to attack someones credability because you cant give a rebuttle of their argument that stands by itself.
I like im sure everyone here, wants those people alive and not in unnecessary harm.
No it isn't you retard. A civil society can change what it does at any time. That is what makes them civil, the change to the situation. If a horde of savage head hunters attack them they would not throw pillows and follow international law, they would change to much more brutal tactics to defeat their already Brutal enemy.
no they would fire guns, which is legal in international law. or beat them anyway they could. which in international law you are allowed to fght and win, just with restrictions such as, you shouldnt torture them, kill them, brutalise them when you have defeated them.
A civil society must be rational, you are not rational and do not belong in modern society.
the fact that you believe the worst behaviour humans are capable of can be rationalised.
you know in nazi germany, they had a problem. They didnt like the jews, they didnt like inferior races as they believed they were supperior. They rationalised, it'd be best for everyone if they sterilized disabled people, and those with handicaps, int he long run itd be better off for everyone to stop those bad genes from being passed on. They also wanted to expell the jews, but no other country would take them, so they rationalised that if they didnt want them in their society, and no one else did, they might aswell kill them.
my point is, everything can be rationalised, but at the expense of morals and all that is decent. Just cause u can rationalise something doesnt mean you should.
Hairyman
12-03-2005, 08:27 AM
No, Noddy, a civil society cannot behave like savages without losing its civility.
Once again you display the moral bankruptcy of suggesting that the ends shall justify the means.
Your entire thesis that The West is morally superior relies on The West displaying a higher level of standards in all its conduct.
My logic is much tighter than yours at every turn and my arguments do not rely on simple denials and the willful maintenance of lost positions.
If you act like an animal you do not deserve to be part of a civil society.
If you condone war crimes then you are not fit to lead in the armed forces ofa civil power.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:29 AM
I highly doubt it. I for one don't to see any deaths for the US soldiers and *our* coaltion soldiers. See here is the thing nodbugger. Just like I dont think its fair for the US soldiers to treat their POWs etc the way they do, I also would hate to see them receiving the same punishment.
I truly wish every soldier could have returned home safe. unrealistic of course. Its a pity they were even there.
It is happening, so live with it. You cannot fight fire with pillows.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:30 AM
Actually, I vote Hairyman to be the most rational person in the War forum. Go back and read his posts - very rational.
He is completely irrational.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:34 AM
hey shit head, they arent a nation, they arent a government, they aint following a political decision, acceptance
They do it. It doesn't matter if they are not following anything. That is what is wrong. If your enemy is not following the rules should they limit themselves to the rules?
this is why people dont like you and consider you to be a complete tool. You throw out such utterly stupid comments in a well, worlds dumbest attempt to attack someones credability because you cant give a rebuttle of their argument that stands by itself.
I like im sure everyone here, wants those people alive and not in unnecessary harm.
They do that. So we will do that. Simple
no they would fire guns, which is legal in international law. or beat them anyway they could. which in international law you are allowed to fght and win, just with restrictions such as, you shouldnt torture them, kill them, brutalise them when you have defeated them.
the fact that you believe the worst behaviour humans are capable of can be rationalised.
you know in nazi germany, they had a problem. They didnt like the jews, they didnt like inferior races as they believed they were supperior. They rationalised, it'd be best for everyone if they sterilized disabled people, and those with handicaps, int he long run itd be better off for everyone to stop those bad genes from being passed on. They also wanted to expell the jews, but no other country would take them, so they rationalised that if they didnt want them in their society, and no one else did, they might aswell kill them.
my point is, everything can be rationalised, but at the expense of morals and all that is decent. Just cause u can rationalise something doesnt mean you should.
They do that. So we will do that. Simple.
You are a complete fuck nut. NONE of those situations are Rational? They involved killing people who are not trying to kill you. Those are in no way rationalized, in no way were the Nazis rational. you are a fucking retard.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:35 AM
What were they doing before then?
How fucking stupid are you?
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:36 AM
No, Noddy, a civil society cannot behave like savages without losing its civility.
Once again you display the moral bankruptcy of suggesting that the ends shall justify the means.
Your entire thesis that The West is morally superior relies on The West displaying a higher level of standards in all its conduct.
My logic is much tighter than yours at every turn and my arguments do not rely on simple denials and the willful maintenance of lost positions.
If you act like an animal you do not deserve to be part of a civil society.
If you condone war crimes then you are not fit to lead in the armed forces ofa civil power.
You are retarded. Plain and simple, in this world you would die in a matter of seconds. You belong 6 feet under the ground you cock sucker.
Timformation
12-03-2005, 08:43 AM
You are retarded. Plain and simple, in this world you would die in a matter of seconds. You belong 6 feet under the ground you cock sucker.
I'm done trying to reason with NB - its like trying to reason with a ferret on a double expresso.
From now on, when I read this crap I shall simply reiterate my most salient point:
Noddy, you are a tard.
That is all.
EtTuBrute
12-03-2005, 08:46 AM
You are retarded. Plain and simple, in this world you would die in a matter of seconds. You belong 6 feet under the ground you cock sucker.
Actually you spelled 'cock sucker' wrong, the correct spelling of 'cock sucker' is cock-sucker or cocksucker
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:47 AM
Actually you spelled 'cock sucker' wrong, the correct spelling of 'cock sucker' is cock-sucker or cocksucker
It does not matter.
EtTuBrute
12-03-2005, 08:47 AM
I'm done trying to reason with NB - its like trying to reason with a ferret on a double expresso.
From now on, when I read this crap I shall simply reiterate my most salient point:
Noddy, you are a tard.
That is all.
You stole my signature you cock-sucker
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 08:47 AM
I'm done trying to reason with NB - its like trying to reason with a ferret on a double expresso.
From now on, when I read this crap I shall simply reiterate my most salient point:
Noddy, you are a tard.
That is all.
You are the retard, you are completely ignorant when it comes to the world.
Timformation
12-03-2005, 08:52 AM
You are the retard, you are completely ignorant when it comes to the world.
Yeah you're right, I can't even come close to the sober, well-informed view you have of the world from your mom's basement.
I say again: You are a 'tard
That is all.
Timformation
12-03-2005, 08:54 AM
You stole my signature you cock-sucker
I'm the one who gave it to you, you cock-smoker.
Piss off.
EtTuBrute
12-03-2005, 08:55 AM
You are the retard, you are completely ignorant when it comes to the world.
YEEEEEEEHHAAAAAAAAAWWWW
in this world you would die in a matter of seconds
And yet, strangely enough, he is still postingon zgeek.
We are all irrational, retarded and should be dead for our simple views of wanting to follow international law.
I'll never understand you Nodbugger.
I'm surprised none of you have quite yet gathered that this is all 'cyber bravado', there was a kickass report done on this phenomena at Flinders Uni. Its pretty much like road rage, you have a nice shell around you so you can be an absolute cunt.
In real life, Nodbugger is probably that spineless kid at school who secretly says to himself "I'll be better than all these other people" yet has no way to prove it.
It amazes me in such a god fearng country, they can have no respect for humanity...
or maybe there was a clause in the bible that says it only applies to white people?
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 01:56 PM
I'm surprised none of you have quite yet gathered that this is all 'cyber bravado', there was a kickass report done on this phenomena at Flinders Uni. Its pretty much like road rage, you have a nice shell around you so you can be an absolute cunt.
In real life, Nodbugger is probably that spineless kid at school who secretly says to himself "I'll be better than all these other people" yet has no way to prove it.
It amazes me in such a god fearng country, they can have no respect for humanity...
or maybe there was a clause in the bible that says it only applies to white people?
Why do all you fuckers think America is racist?
berserk
12-03-2005, 02:31 PM
Put up or shut up
http://forums.zgeek.com/gallery/data/media/1/joinallsm.jpg
Hairyman
12-03-2005, 03:55 PM
Noddy, I think you are racist. That you are American is a coincidence.
Nodbugger
12-03-2005, 04:43 PM
Noddy, I think you are racist. That you are American is a coincidence.
You have no fucking clue.
Up_All_Night
12-03-2005, 05:05 PM
They do it. It doesn't matter if they are not following anything. That is what is wrong. If your enemy is not following the rules should they limit themselves to the rules?
They do that. So we will do that. Simple
Dont you see how there for you are no better than them? Bringing yourself down to their level.
They do that. So we will do that. Simple.
You are a complete fuck nut. NONE of those situations are Rational? They involved killing people who are not trying to kill you. Those are in no way rationalized, in no way were the Nazis rational. you are a fucking retard.
How is it rational to kick someone in the face when they are handcuffed, injured lying on the ground? They are not trying to kill you.
i think you missed my point, anything can be rationalised, you're just being selective and showing a lack of an understanding.
You said these bad acts could to retionalised? But only rationalised to fit your point of view. Anyone can rationalise things, and how bad the things they rationalise, does depend on their point of view beliefs.
What the Nazi's did, i dont believe it was rational, but they did. We have different beliefs. You dont agree it was rational, once again you have some different beliefs.
But you think torturing prisoners in iraq is rational. I dont. We have different beliefs.
The difference comes is that, I like I think most rational good people in the world, dont believe such bad behaviour should be rationalised. They are still human beings who deserve some rights. That behaviour represents the lowest in humans, and the whole, they started it argument doesnt work. Because, they abuse an american soilder, you abuse iraqi's it gets on TV, it makes them do worse, and there's a snow balling effect with no limits and boundaries. As it gets worse, worse and worse behaviour is being rationalised.
Also that nick dude? first beheaded, wasnt that done after the torture pics came out, and wasnt he dressed up in the overals the prisoners were wearing?
darns
12-03-2005, 05:05 PM
I don't care.
And yet you continue to make 20 posts in this thread.
:fu:
Ins0mniac
12-03-2005, 07:29 PM
How fucking stupid are you?
Maybe I am. But just humour me. I didn't read the whole article because I can't really be bothered.
Seeing as you used what they were doing before they were captured as a reason for the abuse, I was wondering if you knew the cases of those particular prisoners.
There's probably a variety of things you can do to get you into an American run jail in Iraq. Making the general assumption that they were shooting at Americans is a little vague and unhelpful and may not nessessarily be true.
Ins0mniac
12-03-2005, 07:44 PM
Anyone would think ZGeekers are posting in here telling Noddy that Americans shouldn't use guns or tanks in wars or something.
Noddy, you're country's mission objectives can still be reached at the same time as following international law.
Kicking a gravely wounded prisoner in the face and making the arm of a corpse appear to wave, then titled the effort “Ramadi Madness” and releasing it on DVD IS NOT an essential element to the success of the U.S in Iraq.
These bloody National Guard soldier's shouldn't be overseas anyway. Aren't they supposed to stay in the U.S in case of emergencies there?
Bostonmess
12-03-2005, 07:49 PM
You cannot fight fire with pillows.
But you can with blankets.
Merudo
12-03-2005, 07:54 PM
But you can with blankets.
check-mate michaelangelos david!
who's next?
screamer: MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.