The invisible wounded

[DOGG]

March 8, 2005 | In January 2000, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Henry Shelton told an audience at Harvard that before committing troops, politicians should make sure a war can pass what he called the "Dover test," so named for the Air Force base in Delaware where fallen soldiers' coffins return. Shelton said politicians must weigh military actions against whether the public is "prepared for the sight of our most precious resource coming home in flag-draped caskets."

It's widely known that on the eve of the Iraq invasion in 2003, the Bush administration moved to defy the math and enforced a ban on photographs of the caskets arriving at Dover, or at any other military bases. But few realize that it seems to be pursuing the same strategy with the wounded, who are far more numerous. Since 9/11, the Pentagon's Transportation Command has medevaced 24,772 patients from battlefields, mostly from Iraq. But two years after the invasion of Iraq, images of wounded troops arriving in the United States are almost as hard to find as pictures of caskets from Dover. That's because all the transport is done literally in the dark, and in most cases, photos are banned.

Ralph Begleiter, a journalism professor at the University of Delaware and a former CNN world affairs correspondent who has filed a suit to force the Pentagon to release photographs and video of the caskets arriving at Dover, said news images of wounded American soldiers have been "extremely scarce." Wounded soldiers, like caskets, mostly show up in the news only after they arrive back in their hometowns. Begleiter said the Pentagon has tried to minimize public access to images and information that might drain Americans' tolerance for the war. "I think the Pentagon is taking steps to minimize the exposure of the costs of war," said Begleiter. "Of course they are."

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/salon55.html

[Nodbugger]

So? Maybe they don't want their picture taken? I know if I was bleeding all over the place I wouldn't want some jackass taking pictures then using it on an anti-war website in an attempt to use me being wounded to get support against what I was doing.

[amj]

So? Maybe they don't want their picture taken? I know if I was bleeding all over the place I wouldn't want some jackass taking pictures then using it on an anti-war website in an attempt to use me being wounded to get support against what I was doing.


You know, for once I think Noddy may have a slightly valid point! Although to be fair, I haven't read the article so I don't know how right he is

[Bostonmess]

I know if I was bleeding all over the place I wouldn't want some jackass taking pictures

We can still hope.

[Directed]

It sounds to me like these professors aren't really interested in giving people a "clear view" of the war, they are interested in undermining the war effort. Why would it be in the military's interest to undermine their own war effort? I really don't understand the article's point of view.

[Up_All_Night]

in a democracy, with people voting for the government, i think people need a clearer view of the war and what they are doing. Using these tactics to make people not realise the extent of whats going on, or bring it home, is decietful. You shouldnt bombard them with the negative shit, but there isnt a clear picture being shown and thats wrong. that is the issue

[Nodbugger]

in a democracy, with people voting for the government, i think people need a clearer view of the war and what they are doing. Using these tactics to make people not realise the extent of whats going on, or bring it home, is decietful. You shouldnt bombard them with the negative shit, but there isnt a clear picture being shown and thats wrong. that is the issue


This issue is you, you may see what happens to soldiers. But you don't hear what happens to them. You cannot just show a bunch of injured guys and not take in their opinion.

I think the fact that amputees are reenlisting shows you something.

[Up_All_Night]

yeah but dude, we are just hearing whats happening, we aint seeing it?
that old saying "a picture speaks a thousand words" wasnt just bullshit.
you need both, and more than just a number, which seems to be the main thing we hear. Stories and the press cant be veted by gov laws.
Support was the vietnam war, a war that was just fucked up and pointless, it was only after images of the horrors got home to americans the support in the population turned against it, putting an end to it. Before that they didnt have a clear idea about it. They prob still didnt knoew the whole story but still it was better thenm to get an idea of it.
while you pro war people dont want things to change the opinion for the war, if the war is just and true you shouldnt need to hide anything about it.

[Nodbugger]

yeah but dude, we are just hearing whats happening, we aint seeing it?
that old saying "a picture speaks a thousand words" wasnt just bullshit.
you need both, and more than just a number, which seems to be the main thing we hear. Stories and the press cant be veted by gov laws.
Support was the vietnam war, a war that was just fucked up and pointless, it was only after images of the horrors got home to americans the support in the population turned against it, putting an end to it. Before that they didnt have a clear idea about it. They prob still didnt knoew the whole story but still it was better thenm to get an idea of it.
while you pro war people dont want things to change the opinion for the war, if the war is just and true you shouldnt need to hide anything about it.


You are using them to further you wrong view point.

That is just wrong. you cannot do that. The soldier support the war, they do not want you doing that. They don't want assholes like you using their image. They do not want you putting words into their mouth.

Which is exactly what would happen.

[Peach]

I think the fact that amputees are reenlisting shows you something.

That this war is so unpopular, the US army will take anybody to keep troop numbers up?

[Nodbugger]

That this war is so unpopular, the US army will take anybody to keep troop numbers up?

Idiot.

[Peach]

Monkeyspank.

[and3w]

"A picture ...

[Up_All_Night]

I remember reading a story that amputee's were pissed off that they werent allowed to go home early...


you're just saying my veiw point is wrong because its different from yours. Just becuase you say something it aint true.
By you saying, the pictures shouldnt be released, you are holding them back to further your opinion on the war.
The difference is, you need to hide things to further your viewpoint.

[Nodbugger]

I remember reading a story that amputee's were pissed off that they werent allowed to go home early...


you're just saying my veiw point is wrong because its different from yours. Just becuase you say something it aint true.
By you saying, the pictures shouldnt be released, you are holding them back to further your opinion on the war.
The difference is, you need to hide things to further your viewpoint.

I'm saying if you can't video tape normal people without their permission why should it be any different for wounded and dead soldiers?

[Up_All_Night]

but its ok, to video tape normal iraqi's, wounded iraqi's without their permission?
to video and take pics of them being abused, humiliated with out their permission?

[Nodbugger]

but its ok, to video tape normal iraqi's, wounded iraqi's without their permission?
to video and take pics of them being abused, humiliated with out their permission?


Except they use those videos has identification, not humiliation and propaganda.

[Up_All_Night]

dude no matter what u think, its censorship of the war, which is being done as propoganda to further their agenda.
sure it can go either way, but censorship is wrong

[Nodbugger]

dude no matter what u think, its censorship of the war, which is being done as propoganda to further their agenda.
sure it can go either way, but censorship is wrong

They don't need to take pictures to lie about it.

[Up_All_Night]

i know, your govt just lies with out even trying to prove it

[Nodbugger]

i know, your govt just lies with out even trying to prove it

Because you know the truth :rolleyes:

[Bostonmess]

I'm saying if you can't video tape normal people without their permission why should it be any different for wounded and dead soldiers?

I thought you could.

Anyway, it's strange how George didn't mind showing the deaths of those at the WTC in his election vids but when it comes to the wounded or dead soldiers coming out of Iraq he comes over all qualmish.

[and3w]

qualmish.

Word of the week winner!

[Nodbugger]

I thought you could.

Anyway, it's strange how George didn't mind showing the deaths of those at the WTC in his election vids but when it comes to the wounded or dead soldiers coming out of Iraq he comes over all qualmish.


Um...he used the planes hitting the towers, it is totally different than pictures of people ripped apart. Idiot.

[Bostonmess]

In what way is it different?

Why did he use the pictures of the planes?

Why won't he use the pictures of "people being ripped apart" ?

Btw, I wasn't aware such pictures existed, maybe you're lying again?

[Nodbugger]

In what way is it different?

Why did he use the pictures of the planes?

Why won't he use the pictures of "people being ripped apart" ?

Btw, I wasn't aware such pictures existed, maybe you're lying again?

It is different because seeing an explosion is different than seeing body parts.

If a plane hits a building, and the building collapses killing 3000 people, there is getting to be some gruesome scenes going on.

[Bostonmess]

You don't see body parts in a flag draped, closed casket.

[The Cunt]

http://www.ehowa.com/features/denzelvisit.shtml