Looting at Weapons Plants Was Systematic, Iraqi Says

[DOGG]

BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 12 - In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein's most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government's first extensive comments on the looting.

The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.
[CUT]
The threat posed by these types of facilities was cited by the Bush administration as a reason for invading Iraq, but the installations were left largely unguarded by allied forces in the chaotic months after the invasion.

Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?ex=1111294800&en=2908f890e8beb814&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY)

[Merudo]

oh, its the new york times, cant possibly be true, its a hoax, its all fake, and theyre biased.


Oh yeah, and you're a <insert insult here>

[Nodbugger]

oh, its the new york times, cant possibly be true, its a hoax, its all fake, and theyre biased.


Oh yeah, and you're a <insert insult here>


The New York Times IS an extremely liberal/anti-Bush paper.


But this post really doesn't matter since its only purpose to to bash in some stupid way.

[lostreality]

noddy, your post is useless without video evidence to back it up.

[Juice Biscuit]

For any yanks on the board.


Is this getting much discussion in the US media, or is it not being touched on too much. I remember before with the beat up last time about weapons stashes being found and then later raided appeared to go away after a week.

[Up_All_Night]

how is its purpose to bash, isnt it supporting bush in a way?

[Directed]

Wow, does this mean that we all agree that Iraq WAS developing weapons of mass destruction then? Because I was sure that everyone said this was a lie the USA said to have a pretext to invade them. HMMMM.... Seems to me like the media is trying to have it both ways about now. Wouldn't the story be something like: Apparently we have been dumbasses and Iraq WAS trying to develop weapons of mass destruction even in the face of international sanctions.

Just wondering.

[Nodbugger]

Wow, does this mean that we all agree that Iraq WAS developing weapons of mass destruction then? Because I was sure that everyone said this was a lie the USA said to have a pretext to invade them. HMMMM.... Seems to me like the media is trying to have it both ways about now. Wouldn't the story be something like: Apparently we have been dumbasses and Iraq WAS trying to develop weapons of mass destruction even in the face of international sanctions.

Just wondering.


Exactly, either Iraq did have them or they didn't.

According to this article they did.

[b2barker]

... including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms...
How the fuck do you get that they had WMD from that article? Oh look out for the high-precision equipment, the evil bearded men with the high-precision equipment are coming to get me.

[Juice Biscuit]

So directed, what you are trying to say is that you went to Iraq because Saddam might make them and the give them to terrorists.



But when you got there you didn't guard them and now they are in the hands of god only knows.




Well 3 cheers for that effort then.



What's next?

Turning up the air conditioning to prevent global warming?

[Merudo]

Wow, does this mean that we all agree that Iraq WAS developing weapons of mass destruction then? Because I was sure that everyone said this was a lie the USA said to have a pretext to invade them. HMMMM.... Seems to me like the media is trying to have it both ways about now. Wouldn't the story be something like: Apparently we have been dumbasses and Iraq WAS trying to develop weapons of mass destruction even in the face of international sanctions.

Just wondering.
no, not really.

its just stating that the reason bush used to go to war (whether true or not) and the suspected location of said WMD's wasnt even guarded

breakdown-
1) lets go to war with iraq! they have WMD in bunkers #2,3,5 and 7!
2) takes over iraq
3) guards bunkers #2,3,5 and 7
4) few weeks later leaves bunkers unguarded and unwatched
5) bunkers get raided, and evil bearded men with high precision equipment chuckle the world over


either this shows how serious they were about there being WMD's (ie, not at all, just an excuse to go in) OR they are EXTREMELY incompetent.

You choose

[Nodbugger]

no, not really.

its just stating that the reason bush used to go to war (whether true or not) and the suspected location of said WMD's wasnt even guarded

breakdown-
1) lets go to war with iraq! they have WMD in bunkers #2,3,5 and 7!
2) takes over iraq
3) guards bunkers #2,3,5 and 7
4) few weeks later leaves bunkers unguarded and unwatched
5) bunkers get raided, and evil bearded men with high precision equipment chuckle the world over


either this shows how serious they were about there being WMD's (ie, not at all, just an excuse to go in) OR they are EXTREMELY incompetent.

You choose


Or they did guard them , but since the Media was not allowed access to these sites they made up stories.

My dad destroyed a munitions bunker every single day he was in Iraq. If they guarded these things why wouldn't they guard them?

The media always screws stuff up about the military because they don't understand it.

They never was who or what was ever there. They never say they were totally unguarded and they never say that the sites were actually looted.

[Nodbugger]

How the fuck do you get that they had WMD from that article? Oh look out for the high-precision equipment, the evil bearded men with the high-precision equipment are coming to get me.


Are seriously this stupid?

There are some items that can ONLY be used for making Nuclear weapons. Especially if they are high precision, you won't find them being used on anything else.

[Up_All_Night]

Your dad was in iraq now, i cant remember you saying that before, you festering pile of dogs vomit.

[Directed]

All I'm saying is you guys seem to want to have every side of the argument go against George Bush. Was Saddam trying to develop weapons of mass destruction or no? You happen to need the precision equipment mentioned in this article to develop said weapons. And this equipment does precious little except that. And Saddam was trying to hide this equipment. Why, may I ask? Could it be *OH SO SHOCKING* that Saddam was a lier trying to circumvent sanctions?

Apparently not, because that would mean the US had a valid concern. To a lot of people here that is too hard a pill to swallow. Nah, go put your aluminum foil hats back on and hide from the black helicopters, you'll feel better.

[Juice Biscuit]

All I'm saying is you guys seem to want to have every side of the argument go against George Bush. Was Saddam trying to develop weapons of mass destruction or no? You happen to need the precision equipment mentioned in this article to develop said weapons. And this equipment does precious little except that. And Saddam was trying to hide this equipment. Why, may I ask? Could it be *OH SO SHOCKING* that Saddam was a lier trying to circumvent sanctions?

Apparently not, because that would mean the US had a valid concern. To a lot of people here that is too hard a pill to swallow. Nah, go put your aluminum foil hats back on and hide from the black helicopters, you'll feel better.



With your repetative ranting that we are out to get the US, I feel inclined to ask to borrow your foil hat when you're done with it.


Or is it possible that we like the New York times are part of the great collective with the single goal of bringing down the US pig dogs through posting on zgeek.

[Directed]

Oh, and pinger is a big dummy who picks his nose too :p

[Directed]

Actually, he claims his nose "just itches"

[Juice Biscuit]

Why does your daughter look nothing like you?

[Juice Biscuit]

Ha now that made the heart rate rise for sec didn't it :p

[Directed]

My wife said that you and her were just "friends" .... You Bastard!

[Up_All_Night]

see i think you and noddy and people dont realise we think the whole thing is just a big pile of shit, bush, sadam, the war, it all equals shit

[Juice Biscuit]

We are.



And you're one of my best mates, why I like you so much that I'd let you raise my own child.





Ok Ok, even I'd red card me on that one. ;)

[Nodbugger]

see i think you and noddy and people dont realise we think the whole thing is just a big pile of shit, bush, sadam, the war, it all equals shit


I think you need to realize that you are wrong and your side has gotten it wrong every single time.

[Juice Biscuit]

Wrong


Wrong long Vietnam wrong or??

[Directed]

We are.
And you're one of my best mates, why I like you so much that I'd let you raise my own child.
Ok Ok, even I'd red card me on that one. ;)

Rep me quick and I'll forgive you. :D

[Up_All_Night]

i think you need to realise the whole thing isnt as black and white as you think it is, that your govt and president isnt infallible and perfect, that its ok to question leaders and their actions, hold them responsible, to want the truth, not just accept the lies.
I dont see how you can seriously sit there and think everythings been just and has turned out perfectly?
There is no doubt that there were lies and deceptions when it came to going into Iraq, they had nothing to do with Sept 11, your govt has used 9/11 and terrorism to invade Iraq for their own agenda. They had a well organised campaign to brainwash and instil ideas in americans to suport the war, which is why you are such a blind fuck.
Fact is, if there were WMDs, prove it! you havent. Your govt hasnt. they've said theyll never be able to prove it. that aint good enough when thousands of innocent people have died.

so what have me and others who dont believe in thousands of innocent people dying at the hand of our governments been wrong about?
We agree sadam was a cunt and should have been stopped, but it should have been done in a completely different way and there was no need to lie about it, to justify it.
There are much wrose govts opressing people in the world that should have been taken care of before sadam, and people liberated set free.

what do you mean my side? this adds to your shit for brains, its all got to do with sides, you're with us or against us, no understanding middle ground. the world aint that simple.

[b2barker]

Are seriously this stupid?

There are some items that can ONLY be used for making Nuclear weapons. Especially if they are high precision, you won't find them being used on anything else.
Are seriously speaking English?

[Nodbugger]

i think you need to realise the whole thing isnt as black and white as you think it is, that your govt and president isnt infallible and perfect, that its ok to question leaders and their actions, hold them responsible, to want the truth, not just accept the lies.
I dont see how you can seriously sit there and think everythings been just and has turned out perfectly?
There is no doubt that there were lies and deceptions when it came to going into Iraq, they had nothing to do with Sept 11, your govt has used 9/11 and terrorism to invade Iraq for their own agenda. They had a well organised campaign to brainwash and instil ideas in americans to suport the war, which is why you are such a blind fuck.
Fact is, if there were WMDs, prove it! you havent. Your govt hasnt. they've said theyll never be able to prove it. that aint good enough when thousands of innocent people have died.

so what have me and others who dont believe in thousands of innocent people dying at the hand of our governments been wrong about?
We agree sadam was a cunt and should have been stopped, but it should have been done in a completely different way and there was no need to lie about it, to justify it.
There are much wrose govts opressing people in the world that should have been taken care of before sadam, and people liberated set free.

what do you mean my side? this adds to your shit for brains, its all got to do with sides, you're with us or against us, no understanding middle ground. the world aint that simple.



You are brainwashed, put on your tinfoil and sit in the fucking corner.

[Nodbugger]

Are seriously speaking English?


Are?

[Up_All_Night]

explain to me how i am brainwashed when i am the one not just accepting the line of the govt? when i am questioning the validity of sources?
If i was brainwashed then would i be denying everything to fit into a certain trained way of thought and only accepting one source for information?
i like many on here, think the whole things fucked and the truth is only coming out in little pieces and its hard to tell with all the bullshit being spun.

[Nodbugger]

explain to me how i am brainwashed when i am the one not just accepting the line of the govt? when i am questioning the validity of sources?
If i was brainwashed then would i be denying everything to fit into a certain trained way of thought and only accepting one source for information?
i like many on here, think the whole things fucked and the truth is only coming out in little pieces and its hard to tell with all the bullshit being spun.

You think EVERYTHING is bullshit and you never stop and think, hey this is completely logical.

You are just so wrong. Your way doesn't work and it will never work. You are afraid to work for anything and you can't stand that there are people who actually do good things.

[Up_All_Night]

what is logical?
explain?
i am confused, im a stupid white boy

[ersatz]

Noddy's a victim of weapons of mass deception

[Kez]

Wow, does this mean that we all agree that Iraq WAS developing weapons of mass destruction then? Because I was sure that everyone said this was a lie the USA said to have a pretext to invade them. HMMMM.... Seems to me like the media is trying to have it both ways about now. Wouldn't the story be something like: Apparently we have been dumbasses and Iraq WAS trying to develop weapons of mass destruction even in the face of international sanctions.

Just wondering.
Agreed. What the hell. Now people are saying they were making stuff that make big boom. What the hell is going on?

[Up_All_Night]

Noddy's a victim of weapons of mass deception

with symptoms of mass retardation

[darns]

My dad destroyed a munitions bunker every single day he was in Iraq. If they guarded these things why wouldn't they guard them?


How many days was your dad in Iraq? He destroyed ONE bunker PER DAY? Why did America send their army and weapons inspectors, when they can just send one person - Your daddy. Hell, Rambo would worship your dad.

BTW, the last we knew, your dad was working as a MP in some prison in Iraq. I bet he is some expert Marine sniper this week, and next week, will be a Secret Service protecting the President. I want a dad like yours.


There are some items that can ONLY be used for making Nuclear weapons. Especially if they are high precision, you won't find them being used on anything else.


There are, but this article did not specify if it is. For example high precision centrifuges are used to refine nuke materials, but they are also used in a lot of other legal processes. You are no expert in this field... or oh wait! Your dad is a nuclear scientist this week I bet. Please accept my apologies.

[DOGG]

breakdown-
1) lets go to war with iraq! they have WMD in bunkers #2,3,5 and 7!
2) takes over iraq
3) guards oil fields #2,3 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2881661.stm),5 and 7 (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1048390989096_28/)
4) few weeks later leaves bunkers unguarded and unwatched
5) bunkers get raided, and evil bearded men with high precision equipment chuckle the world over

Fixed :)

I especially like this part:

This was a crucial target for the coalition forces. In the first hours of the war, US Marines stormed across the Kuwaiti border.
[CUT]
So now there is a mixed force of British and American military engineering units working in the heat and the dust. They are here to get the oil pumping again - and it's a key role.

The coalition forces believe these oil reserves are Iraq's future - a natural resource that could fund the rebuilding of the country. And it's some resource.

Only five days into the war - with fighting still going on in the northern part of the Rumaila field - oilmen are already here, predicting big things.

Civilian engineers from Houston in tin hats and red suits are working alongside the military. "In five years", one told me, "this could be the most important oilfield in the world."

Nice priorities no?

There are some items that can ONLY be used for making Nuclear weapons. Especially if they are high precision, you won't find them being used on anything else.

At least read the article before going into PR zombie mode.

"The kinds of machinery at the various sites included equipment that could be used to make missile parts, chemical weapons or centrifuges essential for enriching uranium for atom bombs. All of that "dual use" equipment also has peaceful applications - for example, a tool to make parts for a nuclear implosion device or for a powerful commercial jet turbine."

Dual-use? Hmmm....

Check this (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm) and this (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=us_support_of_iraq_wmd&startpos=50#us_support_of_iraq_wmd_799). And this congressional report: U.S. Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual Use Exports to Iraq and their Possible Impact on the Health Consequences of the Gulf War (http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html)

[Nodbugger]

How many days was your dad in Iraq? He destroyed ONE bunker PER DAY? Why did America send their army and weapons inspectors, when they can just send one person - Your daddy. Hell, Rambo would worship your dad.

BTW, the last we knew, your dad was working as a MP in some prison in Iraq. I bet he is some expert Marine sniper this week, and next week, will be a Secret Service protecting the President. I want a dad like yours.



There are, but this article did not specify if it is. For example high precision centrifuges are used to refine nuke materials, but they are also used in a lot of other legal processes. You are no expert in this field... or oh wait! Your dad is a nuclear scientist this week I bet. Please accept my apologies.


He destroyed abandoned ammo bunkers, as an MP they do every thing.
He was there for slightly more than a year.

Actual my mom has a degree in Nuclear Physics and her specialty in the Army was Nuclear related items.

[Nodbugger]

"The kinds of machinery at the various sites included equipment that could be used to make missile parts, chemical weapons or centrifuges essential for enriching uranium for atom bombs. All of that "dual use" equipment also has peaceful applications - for example, a tool to make parts for a nuclear implosion device or for a powerful commercial jet turbine."

Dual-use? Hmmm....

Check this (http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm) and this (http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=us_support_of_iraq_wmd&startpos=50#us_support_of_iraq_wmd_799). And this congressional report: U.S. Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual Use Exports to Iraq and their Possible Impact on the Health Consequences of the Gulf War (http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/riegle1.html)\


So you are saying Saddam used duel use items to make weapons 15 years ago, but in the last few years they were only used for their intended purpose?

[Bostonmess]

\


So you are saying Saddam used duel use items to make weapons 15 years ago, but in the last few years they were only used for their intended purpose?

Hmmm, did he use dual use items for duel use that's the question.

[ersatz]

High-precision centrifuges at 10 paces?

[Nodbugger]

Close enough.

[Juice Biscuit]

So Noddy, what you are trying to say is that by invading Iraq you let the terrorists get thier hands on all the equipment that Sadam didn't give them?

[Nodbugger]

So Noddy, what you are trying to say is that by invading Iraq you let the terrorists get thier hands on all the equipment that Sadam didn't give them?


Who said anything was looted, all they say is the places were left to be looted.

[Juice Biscuit]

Who said anything was looted, all they say is the places were left to be looted.



The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.




What's your daddy going to tell you to say know?