Lesbian Marriages Banned Again in the US

[scathing]

Mary Li and Rebecca Kennedy were the first lesbian couple to get married in Oregon, in March 2004, but a shadow hung over them even as they exchanged vows.

Earlier this month - "after a year of living like a normal family" - the state's Supreme Court annulled their union and more than 3,000 others, in a case that sent a signal across the US.

Source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4462537.stm)

What are people's thoughts on homosexual marriage? I personally think its OK, as long as its a civil ceremony.

As usual, its the comments in that link that provide the most thought. It just sets my teeth on edge when people try to use a deity as justification for anything.

[scathing]

Here's the reply I posted on the BBC web site:

When people start bringing in a potentially ficticious character as justification for their prejudices, you know that logic and compassion will be in short supply. And so it is proved when people bring their god into it. I'm not homosexual and clearly I'm not religious, but I am a humanist. I believe in people. When two people love each other and want to formalise that bond, it shouldn't matter what sex they are. The church has their beliefs, and the homosexuals mentioned have respect enough to not have their ceremony performed in its halls.

[annie]

Everytime i hear this debate, i just get so disgusted with society.

Same sex marriages are fine m'kay?

[Marshall77]

I think the definition of marriage has to be redefined. As far as I am concerned Marriage is a religious event and should be left that way. I have friends that are not religious though their families are. They had a commitment ceremony instead. I am Happy for people of non-religious back grounds to do this but think that "marriage" which is usually considered as a religious ceremony be kept that way.



I agree

But polling suggests that while many Americans are open to civil rights for gay couples, they still reserve "marriage" for male-female relationships.

[Fuzzy Dice]

I have long been of the opinion that being gay neither entitles you to anything special nor denies you from anything normal. Actually, I hold that opinion about everybody. Unless you're a Mozart playing three year old....then you probably deserve something special.

[dwarfthrower]

I think marriage should really only concern the two (or more) people getting married. Unless the people getting married actually wish to involve a religious orginisation then religious organisations should but out of it. Likewise, unless the people getting married actually want the government involved in their union, then the government should but out of it.

Why should the government care if I want to marry someone with the same genitals as me, or two people, or set an expiry date?

[Thyrd]

I honestly don't care. People can do what they want with their lives. If they want to spend their life with someone of the same sex, fine. There is nothing wrong with it. Anybody who tries to stop them citing a Gods divine law can get fucked!

[Scythe]

I think marriage should really only concern the two (or more) people getting married. Unless the people getting married actually wish to involve a religious orginisation then religious organisations should but out of it. Likewise, unless the people getting married actually want the government involved in their union, then the government should but out of it.

Why should the government care if I want to marry someone with the same genitals as me, or two people, or set an expiry date?

The problem isn't Government trying to butt in to people's lives (well, it is, but that's only a symptom, not the cause). The problem is with people who believe their personal morality should be universally enshrined in secular law, and who lobby Governments to that end.

[dwarfthrower]

The problem isn't Government trying to butt in to people's lives (well, it is, but that's only a symptom, not the cause). The problem is with people who believe their personal morality should be universally enshrined in secular law, and who lobby Governments to that end.

The problem actually lies with the framework of government that allows such malarkey.

I'm sure if I try hard enough I can find something to be disagreable about ;)

[Fitty]

I only support gay marriage if both chicks are hot.

[Reprobate]

I only support gay marriage if both chicks are hot.
I only support gay marriage if both chicks are butch.

Leaves more hot chixors for hetero males.

But then again, I'm married. So I shouldn't care.

[Cassa]

I just don't honestly see why it's even an issue...as I imagine most gay couples would not be getting a religious ceremony why should the religious groups care? It has nothing to do with them or their organisation. They seem to forget that marriage is not purely a christian concept and they do not have a monopoly over it.

[Reprobate]

I just don't honestly see why it's even an issue...as I imagine most gay couples would not be getting a religious ceremony why should the religious groups care? It has nothing to do with them or their organisation. They seem to forget that marriage is not purely a christian concept and they do not have a monopoly over it.

You'd be surprised at the fact that there are gay men and women wanting a same sex marriage and want it performed in a Christian Church with all the Christian bits and pieces in there.

And that they'll kick up a stink that they're being discriminated against when they're knocked back.

In my opinion, they should leave each other alone. And keep out of each others business.

[The Cunt]

Zipper sniffers and knicker lickers from every civilised country in the world should all be herded up and moved to Tasmania. The whole lot of them.

Legalise same sex marriage, and impose trade sanctions on the importation of test tubes.

They'll unbred themselves into extinction.

If anyone here can forward these details to Alexander Downer be sure to also pass on the message that The Cunt says hi.

You may have to clarify that it's The Cunt @ zgeek. Not some other Cunt in Canberra.

[m0loch]

I can't give a reason as to why, but I'm not okay with the word 'marriage' being associated with a same sex union. If two people who love each other happen to be of the same sex and wish to form a civil union that is the same thing as marriage, I think that is ok. They shouldn't be denied the things that married hetero couples enjoy like tax breaks (this is probably the real reason the government wants to ban gay marriage), dependent health care benefits, lower insurance rates, being able to buy a home together, etc.

In reality, what's the difference between a civil union between two people, or those same two people forming a corporation? Well, I mean besides sex, but that's nobody's business anyhow.

[Cassa]

You'd be surprised at the fact that there are gay men and women wanting a same sex marriage and want it performed in a Christian Church with all the Christian bits and pieces in there.

And that they'll kick up a stink that they're being discriminated against when they're knocked back.

In my opinion, they should leave each other alone. And keep out of each others business.

Gotta agree with what you're saying there. It doesn't surprise me that there would be people in that situation wanting that, but it does surprise me that they'd somehow be shocked by the notion that the church isn't happy with it. I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, but when there's such a dichotomoy between what each side believes, why would you expect a peaceful resolution when there clearly won't be one?

[Aardvark]

How about this. We ban all marriage. No one gets married anymore. You love someone enough to spend the rest of your life with them and have their babies, good for you. Just live with them, spare the ceremony, spare the legal crap and just have the fucking bastards. Without marriage, there will be no divorce. No divorce laws that entitle them to half your stuff. No prenuptual agreements or celebrity marriages. Womens magazines will fall apart at the seams. All we have to do is tighten property laws, so that if two or more people go into a shared purchase agreement, there's provisions that determine what's going to happen when things fall apart. And if you die, your family gets your stuff, unless your will decrees otherwise. So keep those wills up to date, people.

The only drawback I can see is the whole children thing, which I cannot solve, as my official stance is have the children torn apart by wild horses and let the mother choose which part she wants to keep

[Up_All_Night]

"Oh is that a ring on your finger? you married?"
"yes i am"
"Oh, what does he or she do?"

[iaidoka]

How about this. We ban all marriage. No one gets married anymore. You love someone enough to spend the rest of your life with them and have their babies, good for you. Just live with them, spare the ceremony, spare the legal crap and just have the fucking bastards. Without marriage, there will be no divorce. No divorce laws that entitle them to half your stuff. No prenuptual agreements or celebrity marriages. Womens magazines will fall apart at the seams. All we have to do is tighten property laws, so that if two or more people go into a shared purchase agreement, there's provisions that determine what's going to happen when things fall apart. And if you die, your family gets your stuff, unless your will decrees otherwise. So keep those wills up to date, people.

The only drawback I can see is the whole children thing, which I cannot solve, as my official stance is have the children torn apart by wild horses and let the mother choose which part she wants to keep


Solomon has spoken :)

[SOC]

Fucking lesbeans... next thing you know they'll be wanting to use IVF to have babies.

[Glompbot]

Personally, I don't see a problem with it being called a 'marriage', I don't have much experience with marriage (I'm a bastard), but I don't think it should be a term used ONLY in a religious ceremony, because face it... its not.

How about we call the religious ceremony wedlock and let everyone else keep the word marriage.

Actually, just having checked in dictionary.com, this is interesting....

mar·riage ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mrj)
n.

The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
The state of being married; wedlock.
A common-law marriage.
A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.
A wedding.
A close union: “the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics” (Lloyd Rose).
Games. The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.

[tikdoph]

people are fucking retardsOk.

I believe in people.Riiight.

[Chocoholic]

Tikdoph did you reincarnate this thread after 4 weeks because you want to have bum sex with scathing?

[tikdoph]

The problem isn't Government trying to butt in to people's lives (well, it is, but that's only a symptom, not the cause). The problem is with people who believe their personal morality should be universally enshrined in secular law, and who lobby Governments to that end.
Yeah, those are the same kinda fuckers who got laws enacted prohibiting theft, murder, and rape.

Assholes should mind their own fucking business! :spingo:

[tikdoph]

Tikdoph did you reincarnate this thread after 4 weeks because you want to have bum sex with scathing?
Yes. But don't worry, there's plenty of him to go round.

[Kas]

governments are against it because we were not made for same sex babies. how can we procreate? Unless the gays want to be a dumpyard for orphin babies.

sorry. its just my view. i'm an ass i know yet i like to stir debates.

[dwarfthrower]

Yeah, those are the same kinda fuckers who got laws enacted prohibiting theft, murder, and rape.

Assholes should mind their own fucking business! :spingo:
Still having trouble with that pesky notion of "consenting adults" eh?

[tikdoph]

Still having trouble with that pesky notion of "consenting adults" eh?
Exactly. Because theft, murder, and rape should only take place between consenting adults.

[dwarfthrower]

Exactly. Because theft, murder, and rape should only take place between consenting adults.
Theft, murder and rape - by their very definition - demonstrate a conspicuous absence of consent.

[Guest.]

I think lesbians should be allowed to get married. However I don't believe they should be allowed to own dildo's..... they've made their choice.

[scathing]

Ok.

Riiight.

If we take both those comments in context (especially the latter), I'm not sure I see your need to highlight it. Then again, I don't see the need for you to resurrect a thread everyone else got over either.....but here we are.


Even if you take those comments out of context, they're not mutually exclusive. It could quite easily believe in people's propensity to be retards.

[tikdoph]

I don't see the need for you to resurrect a thread everyone else got over either.....but here we are.Then feel free to put a Best Before date on it, fuckface. ;)

[scathing]

Most threads here are best before you hit the "submit reply" button

[Cassa]

Stop it or you're banned from my internet.

[Happy Camper]

Legally I believe their union should be reconised and hold the same legal weight as marriage, just not called marriage since marriage is a religious term and the bible craps on same sex unions quite heavily.

[dwarfthrower]

Legally I believe their union should be reconised and hold the same legal weight as marriage, just not called marriage since marriage is a religious term and the bible craps on same sex unions quite heavily.

Marriage is a legal term to describe an arrangement between people. The only religious mention of Marriage I can think of is where Jesus is invited to a wedding. (Which in itself proves that Marriage pre-dates christianity).

So can two Atheists get married?

[jambo]

Can anyone give me a textbook legal and Christian definition of marrage?

[dwarfthrower]

There is currently no legal definition of marriage in Australia. A bill introduced last year is attempting to change that.

According to the Catholic archdiocese of Melbourne:
"The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring; this covenant between baptized persons has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament."

But note that the church refers to "The Sacrament of Holy Matrimony" (ie the church sacrament) rather than "Marriage" (the legal status)

[Glompbot]

Marriage is a legal term to describe an arrangement between people. The only religious mention of Marriage I can think of is where Jesus is invited to a wedding. (Which in itself proves that Marriage pre-dates christianity).

So can two Atheists get married?

Yes they can, and you're right about it not being a religious only term.

Legally I believe their union should be reconised and hold the same legal weight as marriage, just not called marriage since marriage is a religious term and the bible craps on same sex unions quite heavily.

I posted a dictionary definition earlier in this thread, I'll repost.



mar·riage ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mrj)
n.

The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
The state of being married; wedlock.
A common-law marriage.
A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.
A wedding.
A close union: “the most successful marriage of beauty and blood in mainstream comics” (Lloyd Rose).
Games. The combination of the king and queen of the same suit, as in pinochle.