How the fuck...

[and3w]

...do we extract ourselves from this morass of death and destruction we have brought upon ourselves?
During the past week over 400 Iraqui civilians have been killed by 'insurgents'! We went into this god-forsaken war on a farago of lies, 1/2 truths and money grabbing, self-serving American patriotism, I think it is wrong to have done it, but now we have can anyone tell me how we are supposed to extricate ourselves from it, at least with a little honour. We can't just leave the poor bastards with a governmental system that wont work and will almost certainly collapse as soon as we leave but I can see no way out.
Suicide bombers have set off a wave of blasts in Iraq, killing about 70 people and injuring more than 100 in the bloodiest day since February.
more (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4535323.stm)

[asskickergod]

I for one can't wait to see how many unrealistic, oversimplified and idiotic solutions come as a answer to and3w's question. This thread is bound for comedy gold.

[and3w]

I'd like to be told of just one, cos I am fucked if I can see one

[johny_roberts]

I'd like to be told of just one, cos I am fucked if I can see one

Piece of cake...

Wait until Next April 1'st and all the Troops can yell April Fools we were just kidding and then leave the fucking place. Other than that I have no idea other than remember Vietnam..........

[Nodbugger]

I like the shooting the insurgent/terrorist way.

[and3w]

I like the shooting the insurgent/terrorist way.

Johnnys idea sounds more realistic..I mean, what is it this week?..'security forces' 24 and 'insurgents' 400. Being as how it is virtually impossible to tell who is an insurgent & who a civilian, and with an iraqi population of 26 million, I reckon it will take most of the population of the USA, UK & Aus to be on the safe side & kill all possible insurgents at the 24/400 ratio.
This may be problematic, vote-wise...

[asskickergod]

I actually have a better and more realistic solution to the problem then any of you sniveling shits can come up with. The only material components my brillient plan requires is a few million pullies a couple of billion feet of high tensile steel cable and a giant laser powered directly by the core of the sun. Once we've got those, all thats left is a few easy steps to victory.

First we use the laser to cut the entire middle east out of the continental shelf. Then we use out cables and pullies to lift the newly freed land mass off the mantle about 500 miles into space, then we turn the son of a bitch over and put it right back where it was.

Problem solved.

[Nodbugger]

Johnnys idea sounds more realistic..I mean, what is it this week?..'security forces' 24 and 'insurgents' 400. Being as how it is virtually impossible to tell who is an insurgent & who a civilian, and with an iraqi population of 26 million, I reckon it will take most of the population of the USA, UK & Aus to be on the safe side & kill all possible insurgents at the 24/400 ratio.
This may be problematic, vote-wise...

I think the rifle and/or bomb strapped to their chest sets them apart.

[asskickergod]

I think the rifle and/or bomb strapped to their chest sets them apart.

I think you need to take this wisdom directly to American security forces. They're under the mistaken impression that it's more difficult than that.

[Nodbugger]

I think you need to take this wisdom directly to American security forces. They're under the mistaken impression that it's more difficult than that.

Well I'm sure it is more difficult than that, because they do have their days off.

[Thyrd]

Turn on tha radio, nah fuck it turn it off
Fear is your only god on the radio
Nah fuck it, turn it off
Turn it off, turn on tha radio, nah fuck it turn it off
Fear is your only god on the radio
Nah fuck it, your saviour's my guillotine, crosses and kerosene

Merge on tha networks, slangin' nerve gas
Up jump tha boogie then bang, let 'em hang
While tha paraniod try ta stuff tha void
Let's capture this AM mayhem
Undressed, and blessed by tha Lord
Tha power pendulum swings by tha umbilical cord
Shock around tha clock, from noon 'til noon
Men grabbin' they mics, and stuff 'em into tha womb
Terror's tha product ya push
Well I'm a truth addict, oh shit I gotta headrush
Sheep tremble an here come tha votes
Thrown from tha throat, new cages an scapegoats
Undressed and blessed by tha Lord
Tha same devil that ran around Managua wit a sword
Check out tha new style that Ollie found
I tune in wit a bullet ta shut down tha devil sound
Shut down tha devil sound
Tha program of Vietnow
Shut down tha devil sound

Turn on the radio, nah fuck it turn it off
Fear is your only god on the radio
Nah fuck it, turn it off
Turn it off, turn on the radio, nah fuck it turn it off
Fear is your only god on the radio
Nah fuck it, your saviour's my guillotine, crosses and kerosene

Flex tha cerebellum, fire, uh!
Somebody gotta shell 'em
These evil angels lists, hittin' tha AM playlist
Paid ta say this
That one inhuman, illegal, single woman
Tha one wit out a room
The transmissions wippin' our backs
Yeah, comin' down like bats from Stacy Coon
Terror's tha product ya push
Well I'm a truth addict, oh shit I gotta headrush
Tha sheep tremble an here come tha votes
Thrown from tha throat, new cages and scapegoats
One caution tha mics a detonator unwound
Ta shut down tha devil sound
Shut down tha devil sound
Check tha heads bow in vietnow
Shut down tha devil sound

Is all tha world jails and churches?
Is all tha world jails and churches?
Is all tha world jails and churches?
Is all tha world jails and churches?
Is all tha world jails and churches?

Radio, nah fuck it, turn it off
Fear is your only god on tha radio
Nah fuck it, turn it off
Turn it off, turn on tha radio, nah fuck it turn it off
Fear is your only god on tha radio
Nah fuck it, your saviour's my guillotine, crosses and kerosene

Fear is your, fear is your, fear is your only god
Fear is your, fear is your, fear is your only god
Fear is your, fear is your, fear is your only god
Fear is your, fear is your, fear is your only god

[Scythe]

farago?

[asskickergod]

youre a cocksucker

Is that all you have to say in response to this thread phoneyhuh? I'm disappointed. I for one was highly anticipating some grand scheme of yours that required hours of carful thought and planning on your part, yet would take me all of ten seconds to point out all of its major glaring flaws. I'm sure any resolution that came from you in response to And3w's query would be chock full of magical tales and plots directly ripped out of whatever Disney movie you watched last being that you're even more disjointed from reality than Nodbugger and he apparently thinks Iraqi insurgents run around wearing signs that say "I'm an Iraqi Insurgent" screaming and flailing their arms in the air. This is your one chance to come up with some solutions instead of just trying to and usually failing at pointing out the mistakes of others. Come on phoneyhuh, exercise that brain cell.

[Directed]

It looks like its going to be tough road to sort out this Iraqi insurgent problem. Fortunately we killed like 100 of these bastards recently. My prediction is this activity is a spike that will calm down for a while. But what do I know? I work in the IT industry, which can never predict a damn thing correctly.

[dozer]

and if you kill more they will soon go away........

[Uther Pendragon]

As I see it the main problem is how to tell who is an insurgent and who isn't. I propose the following idea:

We take all citizens of iraq one at a time. We tie them up and throw them into a pond.

If they float then they must be guilty so we shoot them.
If they sink then they were innocent and we put their name on a "Hero Plaque" which will be erected in baghdad.
If they sink but don't drown then it must have been osama that saved them and therefore they need to be sent to abu ghraib for torturing before being shot.

Simple solution really.

Well I mean it worked for witches didn't it? None of them left.

[dozer]

apparently they are already using that method as a field test.

[and3w]

"A car bomb exploded in a market in eastern Baghdad, killing at least 12 people, as a relentless anti-US insurgency swept through the country.
An Iraqi army general and a police colonel were also killed by gunmen as they drove to work in the capital.

Two car bombs exploded in the northern city of Kirkuk, one targeting a police station, leaving at least one dead.

The attacks follow one of the bloodiest days in Iraq since its government was unveiled two weeks ago."

Yeah, they will soon run out of 'insurgents, won't they??? (See graph below)

[johny_roberts]

Or you can do it the old fashioned way.......

[Nodbugger]

"A car bomb exploded in a market in eastern Baghdad, killing at least 12 people, as a relentless anti-US insurgency swept through the country.
An Iraqi army general and a police colonel were also killed by gunmen as they drove to work in the capital.

Two car bombs exploded in the northern city of Kirkuk, one targeting a police station, leaving at least one dead.

The attacks follow one of the bloodiest days in Iraq since its government was unveiled two weeks ago."

Yeah, they will soon run out of 'insurgents, won't they??? (See graph below)


These attacks are out of desperation, they know they have lost.

[Asmodeus]

These attacks are out of desperation, they know they have lost.

those attacks are standard operating procedure since before cars noddy.

[and3w]

How can they lose? All they have to do is keep doing what they are doing and we are stuck in there, as I tried to posit in my original message.
And with every Islamic nutter from any country coming to Iraq to get a peice of us I don't think they are likely to run out of bombers anytime soon.
GooooodMorning VeeeyetNaaam!!!!

[Nodbugger]

How can they lose? All they have to do is keep doing what they are doing and we are stuck in there, as I tried to posit in my original message.
And with every Islamic nutter from any country coming to Iraq to get a peice of us I don't think they are likely to run out of bombers anytime soon.
GooooodMorning VeeeyetNaaam!!!!

You are a fucking idiot.

[asskickergod]

You are a fucking idiot.

That may very well be true, however when debating with you even the lowliest of idiot can seem to be a wise philosopher. In fact that appears to be your only purpose on this planet, to make morons look good. You're like a stepping stone for the stupid to increase their self esteem. You're the kid in the special ed class that all the other kids look at durring the math test and say, "God damn it, I don't know what 2 + 2 equals, but it could be worse, at least I'm not trying to eat my test paper like that kid over there."

[Asmodeus]

That may very well be true, however when debating with you even the lowliest of idiot can seem to be a wise philosopher. In fact that appears to be your only purpose on this planet, to make morons look good. You're like a stepping stone for the stupid to increase their self esteem. You're the kid in the special ed class that all the other kids look at durring the math test and say, "God damn it, I don't know what 2 + 2 equals, but it could be worse, at least I'm not trying to eat my test paper like that kid over there."

you give the boy too much credit. You're feeling charitable today, aren't you?

[Thyrd]

Werd up to asskickergod.

[asskickergod]

you give the boy too much credit. You're feeling charitable today, aren't you?

I'm not feeling charatable, I needed to leave room in that analogy for phoneyhuh, who would be the kid in the special ed class who stabbed himself in the eye with his pencil durring the test.

[TheMightyPhill]

You are a fucking idiot.

No Noddy you are a fucking idiot.

These attacks are out of desperation, they know they have lost.

[Sagacious]

These attacks are out of desperation, they know they have lost.

Lost in the same way as they did in Vietnam?

Lost in the same way as the Palestinians in Israel?

What I think is that they know they won't beat the Coalition in a fight on the coalition's terms (ie a stand up pitched battle using traditonal tactics and combatants) so they are resorting to time the honoured practices of the oppressed and outgunned throughout history....Hit and move use your smallness and their largeness against them. Use their structured organisation and your fluidity against them. Bog them down fighting an enemy they can't see in a place they don't know and make them commit lives and resources to attempting to overcome a 'problem' they can't manage until the cost becomes politically unbearable for the powers directing the occupation.

THat's the way it has been done traditionally and it looks likely to be the way it is done into the future as the enemies of freedom and democracy become more difuse in this post Cold War era.

[Nodbugger]

Lost in the same way as they did in Vietnam?

Lost in the same way as the Palestinians in Israel?

What I think is that they know they won't beat the Coalition in a fight on the coalition's terms (ie a stand up pitched battle using traditonal tactics and combatants) so they are resorting to time the honoured practices of the oppressed and outgunned throughout history....Hit and move use your smallness and their largeness against them. Use their structured organisation and your fluidity against them. Bog them down fighting an enemy they can't see in a place they don't know and make them commit lives and resources to attempting to overcome a 'problem' they can't manage until the cost becomes politically unbearable for the powers directing the occupation.

THat's the way it has been done traditionally and it looks likely to be the way it is done into the future as the enemies of freedom and democracy become more difuse in this post Cold War era.


Except they are not attacking Americans, they are attacking Iraqis.

[TheMightyPhill]

Who wouldn't normally be attacked but are seen as siding with the Coalition. It's not school teachers and nurses that are the target of the bombs it is police or anyone seen to be siding with the Coalition. Coalition caused the fucking problem, Coalition has to fix the fucking problem. I suggest to you that each death of an Iraqi in uniform only replaces that of a Coalition soldier and that these loses are unacceptable and unstopable.

They are fucked, stuck in a war they can't win in situation they can't escape now.

Timeline anyone? I'm thinking 5 to 10.

[Nodbugger]

Who wouldn't normally be attacked but are seen as siding with the Coalition. It's not school teachers and nurses that are the target of the bombs it is police or anyone seen to be siding with the Coalition. Coalition caused the fucking problem, Coalition has to fix the fucking problem. I suggest to you that each death of an Iraqi in uniform only replaces that of a Coalition soldier and that these loses are unacceptable and unstopable.

They are fucked, stuck in a war they can't win in situation they can't escape now.

Timeline anyone? I'm thinking 5 to 10.

You haven't been paying much attention have you? It is normal Iraqis being killed with the addition of Iraqi forces. the coalition
is right, the Iraqis are right. Why they hell don't you understand that?

[Sagacious]

Except they are not attacking Americans, they are attacking Iraqis.
What TheMightyPhil said

[TheMightyPhill]

Why they hell don't you understand that?

With all due respect Noddy "Understand" is not a word you should be flinging around like you comprehend the concept.

[Sagacious]

And to add to what TMP said

THey are caught in a catch 22 of their own construction if they pull out then the whole region risks destabilisation due to the ensuing power struggle and you get something like what happened in Afghanistan after the soviets pulled out and if they stay they are just pouring money and young lives into the meatgrinder

[berserk]

We tie them up and throw them into a pond.
The Americans were using a modified version of the floating witch test involving stacking suspects into pyramids, simulated homo sex & menstruating prostitutes.


To my mind, solutions are dependent on the problems, & the problems in Iraq are two-fold
1. the past actions of Bush & co & the presence of Coalition troops is perceived by the local populace & sympathatic muslims as some sort if new millennium crusade.
2. The Sunni population of central Iraq are more vehemently opposed to the occupation than the rest of the country.

Solution to problem 1:
a. get the coalition the fuck out of there & replacing them with Muslim peacekeepers who are preceived by the populace to have no vested interests in Iraq.
b. Get the american advisors the fuck out of there, & roll back all the shady contracts dolled out since the Yanks took over

With the Americans/Coalition gone, the insurgents will have a harder time recruiting new fighters.

Solution to problem 2:
Partition the country into 2, 3 or more bits (totally independent states or highly autonomous regions with tight border controls) & let each region proceed at different pace away from the civil war state. Places like the north/south with relatively less insurgents can get on with reconstruction & resumption of social services etc.
This would demonstrate to the population the benefits of ending the insurgency.

[gooey]

send nodbugger over there -

the little trooper will go in, weed out all the insurgents and kill them all.

someone needs to tell president bush that they are wasting their best war resource on defending their country in foreign internet forums

[Nodbugger]

You do know you are wrong, right?

[Sagacious]

I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free, not to make them American. Iraqis will write their own history and find their own way." - George W. Bush

Seems it is only the case as long as the CIA FBI NSA & OHS agree that the history they are writing and the way they are finding meets with their approval.

That is one of the reasons they won't hand over the local inteligence network to the Iraqui government.

[Nodbugger]

send nodbugger over there -

the little trooper will go in, weed out all the insurgents and kill them all.

someone needs to tell president bush that they are wasting their best war resource on defending their country in foreign internet forums

I plan on it, but to be an officer you need a college degree, and I don't have that yet.

[JediKnight]

I plan on it, but to be an officer you need a college degree, and I don't have that yet.
Don't worry, this thing will drag on for many years yet. You'll get your chance to make your presence felt over there.

[Arcane1]

I plan on it, but to be an officer you need a college degree, and I don't have that yet.
Rush right over there you nodded up nutjob. Unless that degree is made of bullet proof armor, it isn't going to do you shit worth of good. No more than anything else did for this group of soldiers led by their "college degreed" fucking commanders:
http://forums.zgeek.com/showthread.php?p=577029#post577029

[and3w]

Noddy, you are an exerable amoebic soul who didn't even read my position when I started this thread. I didn't say we couldn't leave; fuck, we can do that any time! I said we couldn't leave with HONOUR! This is a concept you are going to have to get your head around if you want to be an officer, even in the Amerikan army/af or whatever.
For reasons already stated, we cannot leave them in a far worse situation than when we invaded the poor fuckers, so, I ask again: How do we leave Iraq without leaving such a mess that the whole Middle East is in chaos?

[berserk]

I plan on it, but to be an officer
Why? so you snag some cushy desk pushing papers in Centcom Qatar?
Fuck off with the pretend soldier bullshit. Go enlist & shoot all the ragheads like you always wanted. You can get your free college afterwards.

[CMYK]

I plan on it, but to be an officer you need a college degree, and I don't have that yet.

I see little chance of that happening ever. You need intelligence and the ability to reason to get a college degree.

I'd try a trade as a plumber. You're already full of shit.

[Sagacious]

I see little chance of that happening ever. You need intelligence and the ability to reason to get a college degree.

I'd try a trade as a plumber. You're already full of shit.
If that is the case wouldn't sanitation engineer be more appropriate as a vocation?

[asskickergod]

Solution to problem 1:
a. get the coalition the fuck out of there & replacing them with Muslim peacekeepers who are preceived by the populace to have no vested interests in Iraq.
b. Get the american advisors the fuck out of there, & roll back all the shady contracts dolled out since the Yanks took over

With the Americans/Coalition gone, the insurgents will have a harder time recruiting new fighters.

Solution to problem 2:
Partition the country into 2, 3 or more bits (totally independent states or highly autonomous regions with tight border controls) & let each region proceed at different pace away from the civil war state. Places like the north/south with relatively less insurgents can get on with reconstruction & resumption of social services etc.
This would demonstrate to the population the benefits of ending the insurgency.

Like I said before, pure comedy gold.

[throb]

I plan on it, but to be an officer you need a college degree, and I don't have that yet.
You plan on it, but to get a college degree you need a brain, and you don't have that yet.