iPod & Copyright Law

[onetonnesam]

I had to listen to my stoner mate's stoner law students have a stoned discussion on how there is really actually no legal use for an iPod because of copyright breaches even if you are converting music from CDs you own into mp3 format as this constitutes an electronic copy.

Is this true?

[Up_All_Night]

in australia i believe so.
you cant actually make any copy of any music you own for whatever reason, such as backing it up for yourself

[onetonnesam]

So is it legal to make backups in any country? Not that anyone really gives a shit because Apple are sellng shitloads of them and most people who own them seem to be pretty happy with them (I said most - my wife had to get hers replaced after three day cos it just died in the arse for no apparent reason).

I guess its like how adult shops and tobacconists sell cones, bongs and hash pipes but you can't get pot legally. Not that this matter of legality is stopping anyone.

[Juice Biscuit]

Yep its even against the law to use itunes to download music that you purchase online off apple.

[Serpent_Girl]

I swear it's legal to put your own music you make onto it.

[criminy]

Many European countries have backup rights.

[SOC]

Copyright law was changed n Australia in the 1990s to allow for backup copies for personal use, to get around the fact that anyone who even videotaped a TV show was committing a criminal offense.

So, putting music you own, and have paid for, onto a device such as an iPod is perfectly legal.

[Fitty]

You can back up whatever you want in Australia, so long as it's not kept at the same location as the original, therefore satisfying the requirement for it to be a BACKUP in case of the loss of the original.

[onetonnesam]

Thanks for the answers but I think I am getting the same inconsistent views I was getting from the stoned law students.

1) that copyright law was changed to allow personal use - OK but can anyone advise (with due authority) whether this means that I can place a copy on more than one iPod, like a friend's?
2) backup must be kept off-site - sounds more like a corporate policy for business continuity planning, I can't see this working in practice (then again the whole copyright situation has never worked in practice has it?).
3) copying your own music - this one I see can be OK, as the music is your own IP.

Anyone care to clarify? Much appreciated.

[Sagacious]

Copyright law was changed n Australia in the 1990s to allow for backup copies for personal use, to get around the fact that anyone who even videotaped a TV show was committing a criminal offense.

So, putting music you own, and have paid for, onto a device such as an iPod is perfectly legal.
SOC is correct

The Copyright Act 1968 (As Amended) allows for copies of Musical works to be made for the purpose of broadcast where the license under which the work (or a copy thereof) is purchased allows for its broadcast.

In the case of an iPod the personal use license is not violated by reason of the reproduction or copying of the work onto the iPod hard disk because the copy is made by the licensee under the license agreement for the purpose of broadcast by the licensee...In other words if you own the CD from which you rip the track and aren't broadcasting it over commercial radio frequencies or for monetary benefit then you aren't in breach of the Act and are protected by s.47 Copyright Act 1968 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47.html)

If this were not so then no-one would be able to play their CD's at parties because other people may hear the work in which the copyright subsists.

[onetonnesam]

Thank you Sagacious, your answer cleared up something that was bugging the hell out of me. One question, though, am I legally OK if I put mp3 of music from CDs I pay for on my mate's iPod? Or has this already been thought of and provisions already made for it in the laws?

I'd +rep you but I think my rep power being zero means that it would be futile.

[Sagacious]

Thank you Sagacious, your answer cleared up something that was bugging the hell out of me. One question, though, am I legally OK if I put mp3 of music from CDs I pay for on my mate's iPod? Or has this already been thought of and provisions already made for it in the laws?

I'd +rep you but I think my rep power being zero means that it would be futile.

You may not make copies of works you have purchased for distribution to others unless you hand over the original in which the copyright license subsists. In short the paid for music must be owned by the person in possession of the copy otherwise it is an infringement of the Artist's Copyright Rights as defined in s.85 Copyright Act 1968 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s85.html)

So basically if you own the licensed copy only you may have the broadcast copy or the preservation copy under s.51A (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s51a.html)

[criminy]

SOC is correct

The Copyright Act 1968 (As Amended) allows for copies of Musical works to be made for the purpose of broadcast where the license under which the work (or a copy thereof) is purchased allows for its broadcast.



This doesn't sound like a broadcast.

Surely you have to meet the criteria (under the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 ), otherwise §47 doesn't apply?


If this were not so then no-one would be able to play their CD's at parties because other people may hear the work in which the copyright subsists.


That's covered under §46, "Performance at premises where persons reside or sleep"

In short, I disagree that you can legally make the copies. If this were the case, why are the govt currently going through a review process to establish "fair use" rights at the moment?

[locust]

So, putting music you own, and have paid for, onto a device such as an iPod is perfectly legal.

I don't believe this is correct.

The Attorney-General's recently made noise about reforming some aspects of copyright law. Press release is here (http://www.ag.gov.au/agd/WWW/MinisterRuddockHome.nsf/Page/Media_Releases_2005_Second_Quarter_5_May_2005_-_Government_Examines_&apos) and the issue paper is here (http://www.ag.gov.au/agd/WWW/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(03995EABC73F94816C2AF4AA2645824B)~FairUseIssuesPa per050505.pdf/$file/FairUseIssuesPaper050505.pdf). From the issue paper's foreward:

The Government is aware some common personal uses of copyright material infringe
copyright. Examples include transferring music from a CD onto an MP3 or iPod player or
copying a television broadcast to view later.

Unless the A-G's got it wrong and there are rulings to the contrary out there?

[criminy]

You may not make copies of works you have purchased for distribution to others unless you hand over the original in which the copyright license subsists. In short the paid for music must be owned by the person in possession of the copy otherwise it is an infringement of the Artist's Copyright Rights as defined in s.85 Copyright Act 1968 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s85.html)

So basically if you own the licensed copy only you may have the broadcast copy or the preservation copy under s.51A (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s51a.html)

Again, you have to meet the criterion: in this case, it must be a bona fide preservation copy. Copying to your iPod wouldn't constitute that.

[Sagacious]

my understanding is that the so called review to establish fair use rights is to limit the present archive or preservation copying which is part of the fair use bundle of rights

[Sagacious]

Alternatively it could be termed a temporary copy created for the purpose of use by the licensee under the limited license under which the work is purchased

[locust]

The A-G's wording doesn't seem to jive with that.

Don't know if that's all spin though.

[Sagacious]

Copyright Law is not my area and I am skimming through the act and recalling what I've read and heard in the press.

[Sagacious]

The whole debate over copies on iPods is over the file sharing capablities which re-recording on an iPod facilitates.

Teh mischief they are seeking to address is the making of copies for distribution to persons not owning the original licensed copies of the copied work.

[criminy]

The whole debate over copies on iPods is over the file sharing capablities which re-recording on an iPod facilitates.

Teh mischief they are seeking to address is the making of copies for distribution to persons not owning the original licensed copies of the copied work.

I don't think so. The discussion paper/request for comment clearly indicates that the fair use provisions under consideration would be for timeshifting & format-shifting of works you own (or more correctly, are the licensee of).

[throb]

I'd +rep you but I think my rep power being zero means that it would be futile.
He'll send you a Bill Of Costs and you can pay it with your rep is worth something.

[SmaSheD_CoW]

85 Nature of copyright in sound recordings
(1) For the purposes of this Act, unless the contrary intention appears,
copyright, in relation to a sound recording, is the exclusive right to
do all or any of the following acts:
(a) to make a copy of the sound recording;
(b) to cause the recording to be heard in public;
(c) to communicate the recording to the public;
(d) to enter into a commercial rental arrangement in respect of
the recording."

Fair dealing provisions are limited to research or study, criticism or review, reporting of news, and the giving of professional legal advice, so they're not relevant.

s47 (Reproduction for purpose of broadcasting) is not relevant, as the copying in this case would not be solely for the purpose of public broadcasting.

s51 (Reproducing and communicating works for preservation and other purposes) is not relevant, as it only applies to copies made for libraries/archives.

As far as I'm aware, the position stated in the AG's Issues Paper is correct - transferring music from a CD onto an mp3 player or ipod infringes copyright.

[Movius]

I had to listen to my stoner mate's stoner law students have a stoned discussion on how there is really actually no legal use for an iPod because of copyright breaches even if you are converting music from CDs you own into mp3 format as this constitutes an electronic copy.

Is this true?
All argument regarding potential copyright breaches is irrelevant. As these 'stoner law students' make the blatantly incorrect assumption that there are no copyright holders willing to allow their music to be distributed freely.

[onetonnesam]

All argument regarding potential copyright breaches is irrelevant. As these 'stoner law students' make the blatantly incorrect assumption that there are no copyright holders willing to allow their music to be distributed freely.


I've filled up my iPod with about 2500 songs so far and I'm not sure how many copyright owners of the songs on my iPod would be into freely distributing their music (especially that cunt Lars from Metallica); so let's let the assumption stand. Everyone of my CDs have a copyright warning stamped on the label.

According to the letter of the law, is it legal or not to "Import" the songs using iTunes and to copy to the iPod?

[s3raph]

You can back up whatever you want in Australia, so long as it's not kept at the same location as the original, therefore satisfying the requirement for it to be a BACKUP in case of the loss of the original.
So I'll backup all my games and let one of my friends hold them at another location for me?

[Movius]

I've filled up my iPod with about 2500 songs so far and I'm not sure how many copyright owners of the songs on my iPod would be into freely distributing their music (especially that cunt Lars from Metallica); so let's let the assumption stand. Everyone of my CDs have a copyright warning stamped on the label.

According to the letter of the law, is it legal or not to "Import" the songs using iTunes and to copy to the iPod?
It only needs one counter-example to prove your example wrong. I could provide links to countless mp3s for free distribution if you would like, but i don't think that would be necessary.

Incidentally many of the CDs I own are released by those who endorse the copying of their their music for assorted purposes, yet they still have a copyright warning on the disc.

[Afro88]

Wtf? This thread should have ended here:

I swear it's legal to put your own music you make onto it.

If I record a few of my synths and mp3 it, load it into iTunes and put it on an iPod I'm not breaching any copyright at all. Case closed. Taking this further, if I release said mp3 on the net under with the instruction that it may be redistributed freely in it's current (or any other) format, other people can load this music onto their iPods. Like Movius says, there are thousands of bands that let anyone download their music for their own free use. Because of this, the iPod is indeed very legal and has many worthwhile honest legal uses.

It's the same with tape decks, cd burners, dvd burners, minidisc recorders etc. They all have popular illegal uses but in any case the manufacturer can argue that they created it for legal purposes only, because it does indeed have legal uses.

[rayjayjohnson]

i reckon it's interesting to note that in the a-g's statements they actually use the word 'ipod' as well as mp3 players. more evidence that apple are running a conspiracy for world domination