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We didn't flush it but we may have got a little pee on it. [Archive] - ZGeek

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Juice Biscuit
04-06-2005, 11:17 PM
The US has given details of how guards mishandled copies of the Koran at its Guantanamo Bay prison, including a case of one copy being deliberately kicked.

It was part of an inquiry sparked by a magazine report, later retracted, that a Koran was flushed down a toilet.

The US listed five incidents of mishandling at the Cuban facility, including the splashing of urine and water on copies of the Koran.

The report said most of the cases were accidental or unintentional.

It also said that there were a number of cases where detainees had desecrated the Koran by ripping pages, urinating on it and trying to flush it down a toilet.

Water balloons

Brig Gen Jay Hood, commander at Guantanamo, said in his report: "We defined mishandling as touching, holding or the treatment of a Koran in a manner inconsistent with policy or procedure.

He confirmed that five of these alleged mishandling incidents by US guards did take place.

In one instance, a guard was said to have urinated near an air vent.

The wind allegedly blew his urine through the vent, soiling one detainee and his Koran.

According to the report, the guard was reprimanded and sanctioned, and the inmate was given a new uniform and Koran.

Other Korans became wet after night-shift guards had thrown balloons filled with water into a cell block, the report found.

In a third case, an interrogator reportedly apologised to a detainee after stepping on his Koran.

In a fourth incident, a soldier deliberately kicked Islam's holy book.

Finally, a prisoner found a "two-word obscenity" in English written in his copy of the Koran.

Gen Hood concluded that the words might have been written by a guard or by the detainee himself.

He said: "When one considers the many thousands of times detainees have been moved and cells have been searched since detention operations first began here in January 2002, I think one can only conclude that respect for detainee religious beliefs was embedded in the culture of [Guantanamo Bay's task force]."

Pentagon spokesman Lawrence DiRita said there had also been 15 cases of "mishandling and outright desecration by detainees".

The report said these included "using the Koran as a pillow, ripping pages out of the Koran, attempting to flush a Koran down the toilet and urinating on the Koran".

'Lasting damage'

The earlier report in Newsweek magazine of the Koran being flushed down a toilet by guards had sparked protests across the Muslim world.

In Afghanistan, riots resulted in the deaths of at least 15 people.

Thousands rallied in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, Lebanon and Malaysia, demanding apologies from the US and punishment for those involved.

The magazine withdrew its story after saying it could no longer corroborate the report.

The inmate who made the original allegation about the Koran being flushed down the toilet had retracted it, said Gen Hood.

The White House rounded on the magazine, saying its report had done "lasting damage" to the US image in the Muslim world.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4608949.stm

Hired Goon
04-06-2005, 11:35 PM
and therein lies the difference. If somebody in the US or a western country pissed on, kicked, burnt or jammed a bible up their arse, people would think it was pretty stupid, but probably wouldn't give a shit.

The more complex issue is the whole "civility in war" thing. Back in WW2, these dudes wouldn't have even had a Koran, they probably would have been shot long before. I'm not saying it's right or anything, I'm just saying that it seems ironic it's ok to put a bullet in somebody's head or bomb the fuck out of a city, but somebody "mistreating" a piece of paper is considered to be an offense that warrants worldwide political condemnation.

Up_All_Night
05-06-2005, 12:45 AM
The Koran has a different place in Muslim than the bible does in Christianity. The Koran holds a much more sacred place for Muslims than the bible does for Christians. A comparison may be made with the Eucharist.

amj
05-06-2005, 12:32 PM
The Koran has a different place in Muslim than the bible does in Christianity. The Koran holds a much more sacred place for Muslims than the bible does for Christians. A comparison may be made with the Eucharist.


To be fair, it does seem a little OTT that they are complaining so much. While I sure as fuck don't think they are getting the best deal ( I won't even touch on wether the guys in there are actually guilty or not...), the fact that they have a koran in the 1st place is pretty nice.

PS: Don't over react to my post!

Up_All_Night
05-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Yeah i know what you mean, it is being used as a symbol for their hatred of america and what they are doing.
It all ties into how they seem to be going completely out of their way to make things worse.

MC SoD
05-06-2005, 03:20 PM
What would the Americans say if we "accidentally" burned a flag? Then did all those things that happened to the flag in that episode of King of the Hill.

kré
05-06-2005, 03:54 PM
next step is gathering all of the books into a big ile and lighting them on fire.

then they send out troops in the night to kill everybody who opposes them.

:D

Whiskers
05-06-2005, 04:01 PM
Har har- liekthese guys shouldn't be complaining. At least they're not stuck in the rag head over-run middle east anymore. Like they should be happy they even have anyfing to read.

No seriously, this is fucked. While it may be understandable for a convicted criminal to be denied luxuries, these detainees are generally locked up without charge. See- this is what happens when certain countries are allowed to break rules. It gives certain people the belief that they can keep on breaking them.

Cray and McSod are spot on.

I'm waiting for the Krystalnacht reinactment.

Nodbugger
05-06-2005, 06:03 PM
Har har- liekthese guys shouldn't be complaining. At least they're not stuck in the rag head over-run middle east anymore. Like they should be happy they even have anyfing to read.

No seriously, this is fucked. While it may be understandable for a convicted criminal to be denied luxuries, these detainees are generally locked up without charge. See- this is what happens when certain countries are allowed to break rules. It gives certain people the belief that they can keep on breaking them.

Cray and McSod are spot on.

I'm waiting for the Krystalnacht reinactment.

It doesn't really matter, they can do it and there is no rule against it. No matter what you classify them as we are not breaking any rules.

MC SoD
05-06-2005, 06:16 PM
it's not about breaking rules, it's about disrespecting people. There's no rule that says you can't call your grandma a stupid slag, but you just don't do it.

rayjayjohnson
05-06-2005, 06:34 PM
like no one on zgeek disrespects people!

MC SoD
05-06-2005, 07:38 PM
I don't

Nodbugger
06-06-2005, 01:30 AM
it's not about breaking rules, it's about disrespecting people. There's no rule that says you can't call your grandma a stupid slag, but you just don't do it.

I don't think they were being very respectful to begin with.

moldy bread
06-06-2005, 01:48 AM
It doesn't really matter, they can do it and there is no rule against it. No matter what you classify them as we are not breaking any rules.
rules? heard of toilet training? that's like the biggest law of mankind buddy. it's up there with gravity and thermodynamics. that's some serious rule violations and you seem to be condoning it, not condemning it.

kré
06-06-2005, 01:54 AM
like no one on zgeek disrespects people!
go get fucked :D

MC SoD
06-06-2005, 02:05 AM
I don't think they were being very respectful to begin with.

That's the point. They should have been.