Marriage - right or wrong? what's your opinion?

[Space Cowboy]

So tell me, what do you think..how do you feel about marriage? Is it right or wrong to get married and show your commitment to one you feel love for?

This is something that piked my interest from here (http://forums.zgeek.com/showpost.php?p=632380&postcount=38609)

Speak to me brethren :D

[rin]

i think marriage is a great way to show your commitment to someone. It shows your complete devotion and love for them. You are giving yourself to that person, and that person only.

[kré]

marriage is retarded. anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

[dwarfthrower]

If it feels right to you (and the person - or people - you are marrying), then it's right.

[t101]

I don't see much point to it - certainly those people who claim that some stupid piece of paper cements their relationship confuse the hell out of me.

If you truly love someone, why does locking them in a legal contract prove it? If anything it shows some level of anxiety.

Of course, there are those that marry (and I think/hope these are the majority) because of the symbolism rather than the legality (although the benefits would rock :) ). In those cases, marriage is not actually necessary per se - any old symbol that both parties participate in would do.

[Aardvark]

Totally wrong, sin against creation. Unless you're hideously misshapen and no one else wants you anyway, then go nuts

[kré]

If you truly love someone, why does locking them in a legal contract prove it? If anything it shows some level of anxiety.

word. got insecurity?

and those people who do it simply because it's part of their religion...well...don't get me started on that shit.

[Directed]

Only way to set up a secure environment for children. Marriage is one of the happiest decisions I have made in my life. And I've been married for years now. Its tough, but the secret is to be in it for you partner and not be selfish. Thats a good start.

[beerbaron]

what about pre-nups ?
i dont want some ex wife taking my hotrod in divorce settlement

[g_money]

i think marriage is a great way to show your commitment to someone. It shows your complete devotion and love for them. You are giving yourself to that person, and that person only.

I thinks is great that romantics are still out there and believe in Marriage and all that... personally I've been there done that, lasted 5 years and had to pay more money to get divorced ...
All totally avoidable by just living with someone... but that's my 5cents..
:stooge:

[DumHed]

I reckon if marriage really makes a difference to your relationship then you have problems.
Really it's more about confirming the seriousness of the relationship in the eyes of other people. If there's doubt either way in your own mind then a marriage certificate won't fix it.

[ShinymetalASS]

Like everything else..... you get married if you and your partner want to.

If you dont want to get married.... Dont!

I've never really thought about getting married.... just kinda figured that I'd know if I wanted to.

[BtrFly]

its fine to show a commitment, show you love someone completely, but it should be a personal choice, and people shouldnt be looked down upon because they havent had the ceremony, or signed that piece of paper.

in reality these days, marriage is the joining of people, who are trying to make a life together- but living together is also this. people should not be forced to get married, nor should they be forced to live together.

free choice people.

[lostreality]

marriage is a waste of money and the government screw you over in later life. A married retired couple that live together on state pension get less money if they were just living together and not married.

saying that i am engaged but with no plans to get married in the near future. How ever if my better half wishes to get married then so be it, a relationship is about give and take - I give and she takes. :)

[dwarfthrower]

Like everything else..... you get married if you and your partner want to.

If you dont want to get married.... Dont!

I've never really thought about getting married.... just kinda figured that I'd know if I wanted to.

/end thread.

[Fitty]

Such a black and white question is stupid to begin with. Marriage can be right in certain situations and wrong in others. It's seen as the normal display of commitment between two people in our society and, as such, it's the obvious option for many couples who want to further commit to each other. For some of these, couples marriage might be a fantastic idea, and might work really well, but it might be the complete opposite for others - you just have to look at divorce rates to see that.

There'd be so many variables as to whether marriage would last and i'm stuffed if I know them all. Personally I don't see an absolute need for a couple to be married, but it sure as hell makes things easier legally and bureaucratically. I think if I ever met someone to whom I really wanted to commit, I would get married. To me, it seems the best way of showing your commitment. But again, having said that, it's by no means necessary.

[kré]

Such a black and white question is stupid to begin with. Marriage can be right in certain situations and wrong in others.
incorrect.

[Space Cowboy]

incorrect.

any reasons?

[imp]

Well as I said in "i confess" it's a really personal decision and it's not one to be taken lightly.

I think it's more of a question of is this right for you, not is it right in general :)

[t101]

Only way to set up a secure environment for children. Marriage is one of the happiest decisions I have made in my life. And I've been married for years now. Its tough, but the secret is to be in it for you partner and not be selfish. Thats a good start.

Funny, I see no element of marriage that makes it generate a secure environment for children. The parents wanting to be together does that.

If the parents don't want to be together or one is abusive or whatever, marriage doesn't fix it.

If the parents are loving and want to be together and raise children, not being married doesn't change that.

Marriage is an artifice we put upon ourselves. It works for many, not for others.

If marriage, as you say, truly set the scene for children then presumably a marriage between two child molestors would solve all the obvious possible problems?

[imp]

Like everything else..... you get married if you and your partner want to.

If you dont want to get married.... Dont!

I've never really thought about getting married.... just kinda figured that I'd know if I wanted to.

*nods* I never thought about it till about 2 years ago. I never thought it was something that I'd ever want to do.....But now i do and I feel deep down that it's right for me :) Doesn't mean it's right for others.

[phunkachunka]

i would have to say i am not one for marriage, though i'm not against it either.

i have been with my g/f for 8 years now, and living together for 2 years. we have no interest in marriage at the moment as we both know that we are committed to each other.

i don't think for us that marriage would change our relationship and make us any more committed than we already are.

what works for some, doesn't necessarily work for others

[kré]

any reasons?
marriage isn't right in any situation. it's just a really stupid thing to do regardless of who you are, where you are in life, who you are with, whatever.

[Directed]

marriage isn't right in any situation. it's just a really stupid thing to do regardless of who you are, where you are in life, who you are with, whatever.

The voice of bitterness speaks!

[rin]

I thinks is great that romantics are still out there and believe in Marriage and all that... personally I've been there done that, lasted 5 years and had to pay more money to get divorced ...
All totally avoidable by just living with someone... but that's my 5cents..
:stooge:

i moved out of home for this reason as well as a few others. My partner and I still want to make that commitment though when the time is right for BOTH of us. We have the same idea that marriage is special and sacred and we want to share that as well as show other people how much we love eachother and that it will be forever.

[Space Cowboy]

marriage isn't right in any situation. it's just a really stupid thing to do regardless of who you are, where you are in life, who you are with, whatever.

Cool, thanks for your input. Just was wondering where you were coming from.

[kré]

The voice of bitterness speaks!
bitterness is honesty.

[Arcainus]

Usually, marriage opinion is seperated nicely by gender. While MOST women are for marriage, MOST men are usually around indifferent on the matter. Personnaly, I'm all for it, except for how commercialized and meaningless hollywood has made it. Now a days, I could go down with three of my mates to toronto, get trashed and come back married to all of them before i even sobered up.

I'm thinking about the pagan ceremonies at the moment, at leas they have some sort of significance.

[imp]

i don't think for us that marriage would change our relationship and make us any more committed than we already are.

what works for some, doesn't necessarily work for others

Yeah it's not going to change anything, people who think it will are kind of kidding themselves ;)

Well I'll have a different last name but that's it.
Who we are, how we behave with each other, all of that isn't going to change one bit.
It's not going to stop our insecurities about each other (which everyone has about their partner), it's not going to mean that neither of us will never stray or be tempted to (although I hope that won't happen) and it doesn't mean that all of a sudden we're better than those who aren't married.

It's just something we want to do and feel is the right thing for us :)

[Space Cowboy]

bitterness is honesty.

bitterness is not necessarily honest....I know of a few people who are bitter due to relationship breakups and they are definately not honest about it.

by your comment I would say you are bitter due to a marriage you did not believe in?

[kré]

this thread is about marriage in general, not about mine. let's keep it that way.

[Space Cowboy]

this thread is about marriage in general, not about mine. let's keep it that way.

true, I take it back. Not trying to tread on anyones toes with this.

keep it coming people.

[goss]

I think consensus, aside from Cray, is that it's good if both partners want it... and obviously not good if they don't. I can't see what the difference is between two people living together, and two people married and living together, to be honest.

On the upside, you do get to have an all in massive piss up. It also gives all of your friends looking to pick up the most fertile possible ground on which to do so. So hurrah for marriage ceremonies in general I reckon.

[ShinymetalASS]

If I was Irish do you think I could marry instant mashed potato?

Or could I just head down to Tassie.

And in other news:

KIT KAT KOMES IN PEANUT BUTTER NOW!@#$@#!$%

Now that is something I can ponder over.

[Space Cowboy]

Just an FYI, I've been divorced and am now married again with a second child on the way.

[royale]

Being one about to take this step, I see marriage as a conscious and deliberate action to declare to yourself and your partner that you consider the relationship to be permanent and you wish to spend the rest of your days with said partner. Being a happy event you may choose to have your family and friends around to celebrate with you.

[Arcainus]

hmm...as fun as with a kid is raising two kids is, i gotta say shiney's news was pwner

Speaking of which, zOMfg! I'm gonna run down to the mall during my break tomarrow and get some!

[Directed]

The reason I say marriage creates a secure environment for children is backed up by research. Of course it only creates a secure environment if the people aren't kicking each other around and yelling all the time. I think our society's problem is that people aren't putting into the marriage what they should. But that is my opinion. You make a commitment for life to your partner when you get married. I wish our society did a better job of teaching people how to honor that commitment.

[astro]

I'm marrying imp because we're both secure in our relationship and want to marry and spend the rest of our lives together. We're doing it for Friendship and love. It's our choice, and it's what we want to do. what other people think or choose to do I couldn't give a shit about.

[kré]

Just an FYI, I've been divorced and am now married again with a second child on the way.
wow, you're crazier than i am.

[Glompbot]

It isn't a matter of 'right' or 'wrong'.

I reckon if marriage really makes a difference to your relationship then you have problems.
Really it's more about confirming the seriousness of the relationship in the eyes of other people. If there's doubt either way in your own mind then a marriage certificate won't fix it.


THIS is an opinion I respect.
:D

*edit*
My parents share the same sentiment... "Why do we need a certificate for this?" is the response I got when I asked why they weren't married.

[Glompbot]

If it feels right to you (and the person - or people - you are marrying), then it's right.

What about if it feels wrong? or rushed?

Only way to set up a secure environment for children.

Not true.
I grew up in a happy and secure environment, with my 3 siblings and my UN MARRIED parents.

Admittedly, I didn't know they weren't married until I was 14, but it wasn't because they kept it a secret, its just because I wasn't the most observant person... Up until that point in time I just took it for granted that parents were married.

in reality these days, marriage is the joining of people, who are trying to make a life together- but living together is also this. people should not be forced to get married, nor should they be forced to live together.

Agreed...

It's not going to stop our insecurities about each other (which everyone has about their partner)

I don't believe that is true.
I don't believe everyone has insecurities about their partner.

In a good relationship you should be able to discuss any insecurities and work them out to a conclusion, both partners would be willing to make that change to make the other person happy.

However, people who are generally insecure about most things shouldn't be babied, in this situation they'd probably need professional help...

I'd say any couple who gets married before working their insecurities out is only concreting the unhappiness.

[Bifrost]

I see marriage as a time-honoured tradition. That's all.

Marriage itself is not a commitment, it's a SYMBOL of commitment. You are announcing to your family and friends that each of you is committed to the other. There are an incalculable number of ways in which any couple could do this or symbolise their commitment to one another, marriage is just the most traditional and most popular.

I fully agree with those that have said marriage is not a right-or-wrong thing. It's like saying that a sandwich is right or wrong. You're hungry, you choose the sandwich over the pasta or the noodles - you buy the sandwich.

There are many choices out there for us, it just so happens that many people choose marriage. I see a lot of sandwiches being eaten too. Coincidence? I think not! ;)

My personal stance on marriage is why bother? There are 2 things I see as being cool about marriage 1) Presents 2) The party.

I get presents at Christmas and it's hard enough for people to buy them then. I often have parties.

My gf and I have been together 9 years, living together around 6 (I forget exactly)...Neither of us have any interest in marriage and amazingly for exactly the same reasons (see? made for each other).

My gf is often asked by the older folk at her work "when are you getting married?" and when she says "never" their response is always the same: "but, don't you want to have children?" to which she always replies: "I'm not sure which biology class you attended, but I'm pretty sure marriage isn't a requirement of conception". :p

[Glompbot]

Its really sad that people still believe marriage is a prerequisite for children.

[Space Cowboy]

Its really sad that people still believe marriage is a prerequisite for children.

I don't see that as being sad, it's just their opinion.

[DumHed]

Marriage itself is not a commitment, it's a SYMBOL of commitment. You are announcing to your family and friends that each of you is committed to the other.

Yep, that's what I meant by what I said when I said what I said :)

[astro]

What about if it feels wrong? or rushed?

Then don't get married. Simple.

Not true.
I grew up in a happy and secure environment, with my 3 siblings and my UN MARRIED parents.

Admittedly, I didn't know they weren't married until I was 14, but it wasn't because they kept it a secret, its just because I wasn't the most observant person... Up until that point in time I just took it for granted that parents were married.

The fact that they had different surnames didn't tip you off?

I don't believe that is true.
I don't believe everyone has insecurities about their partner.

In a good relationship you should be able to discuss any insecurities and work them out to a conclusion, both partners would be willing to make that change to make the other person happy.

However, people who are generally insecure about most things shouldn't be babied, in this situation they'd probably need professional help...

I'd say any couple who gets married before working their insecurities out is only concreting the unhappiness.

If partners can't talk about their feelings openly and honestly and resolve any problems they have, they shouldn't be in a relationship in the first place, let alone a marriage. *shrugs*

If you want to get married, get married. If you don't want to get married, don't get married. Simple.

[Glompbot]

The fact that they had different surnames didn't tip you off?

I should have clarified.

Dad changed his surname.
Mum changed her surname.

So they both have the same surname.

[dwarfthrower]

What about if it feels wrong? or rushed?

Then either work through with your partner(s) what feels wrong or rushed about it... or put it on the backburner... or ditch the idea altogether.

What I'm saying is that the only two (or maybe more) people who matter are the one's getting married in any particular situation.

[Space Cowboy]

I don't believe that is true.
I don't believe everyone has insecurities about their partner.

In a good relationship you should be able to discuss any insecurities and work them out to a conclusion, both partners would be willing to make that change to make the other person happy.

However, people who are generally insecure about most things shouldn't be babied, in this situation they'd probably need professional help...

I'd say any couple who gets married before working their insecurities out is only concreting the unhappiness.

What happens if, after working out your insecurities, you get married but then something happens which creates an insecurity 5 years later. Does this mean you shouldn't have gotten married in the first place? :confused:

There's lots of opinions on this topic and I think a lot of people feel really passionate about one view over another. Depending on where you are sitting will give you a different view on what you feel is right or wrong.

[rin]

i think your upbringing has a lot to do with your ideas on marriage too... my parents have been married for 28 years i think... just lately they;ve been having problems. I know they love eachother, but things change and people change.

Seeing my parents as they are has shown me that if you are really in love with someone you can get through anything. You support eachother no matter what. That is real commitment.

It's hard to say if a marriage will definitely last forever. I guess, all you can do is try as best as you can to make the right decision before getting married...

[Fitty]

Look, I think the inarguable facts are that people view marriage as an obvious display of commitment, not, as was suggested, just to others, but to one another as well. I don't think anyone gets into a marriage thinking "Oh, we can just get divorced in five years if it doesn't work out".

The second is that marriage isn't for everyone - Sapia's parents are a good example, although you must admit that both changing their names to be the same and never informing their children of the fact that they were a de facto couple hints towards wanting to be married in all ways except for the legal one.

[Arcane1]

There's lots of opinions on this topic and I think a lot of people feel really passionate about one view over another. Depending on where you are sitting will give you a different view on what you feel is right or wrong.
Having been married one more time than I have been divorced, and I am not telling either number, I have a few comments here.
Marriage, like any other partnership, demands an investment that has no tangible return. You have to be willing to give everything that you have, and yet have no assurance that you will get a damn thing back. You also have to be willing to help another person grow, learn and experience things that are not always to your best interests or gain, and often at your great loss. Regardless, you have to be willing to be there to help them up if/when they fail. Growth, on both partner's parts is absolutely necessary. Often times I have seen one partner not want the other to grow, as it is a threat to them. Often, a person doesn't want to grow as it is easier to stay as is. When my first wife, who was 12 years older than me said "I don't want to change anything, I don't need to change anything, you just need to leave it all alone" I knew that I was in a doomed relationship. To her, talking about things was unacceptable, as she preferred to ignore them in the hopes that they would evaporate.

I had a teacher tell me years ago that the reason he was still married after 40+ years is that he learned something new about his wife every day. I cannot say that I have accomplished that regularly, but I try.

My first marriage, I went into for all the wrong reasons; I went into it to "save" her and her daughter. Granted, I did a good job of that, however when it was time for me to stop being the parent to both, things fell apart badly. Looking at the 'why' part of being in the relationship is the hardest and most accurate way to tell if you should be in it "forever". Even though forever can be shortened with a couple thousand dollars and a few court appearances, that shortening process is infinitely expensive in emotional costs. Especially when kids are involved.

In many ways, the arranged marriages, with no escape clauses were "easier", though I am certain not happier or as emotionally fulfilling as they were prescribed positions.

[sperm]

So tell me, what do you think..how do you feel about marriage? Is it right or wrong to get married and show your commitment to one you feel love for?


See the bold bit I highlighted in the original post ? thats exactly the wrong reason to get married for. My advice is never get married just as a public declaration of love and commitement to another person.

Anyone that knows you both, will already have some understanding of your relationship anyway, and that fact that you live together and stay together is enough proof of your strong feelings.

I truly believe that marriage should be viewed far more impassionately, look at it like a financial contract, like a merger between two companies; you are working together to pool your resources to make you life verus the world a little easier. Once you are married its like you are in it more for you partner than you are for yourself. I really like some of the ways directed has expressed this so far, I think he understands the right reasons to get married.

Ive found the best meaning/definition of the word 'marriage', I learnt oddly during engineering studies. When mechanical cogs intermesh and move together, its called a 'marriage' of gears. Try and visualise that, and hopefully you come to some understanding of my angle.

Incidentally, Ive been married almost 10 years now, been together for 15. Dont ever take the union for granted, or believe its forever. All relationships should be given consideration and reflection all the time, right to the very very end. Marriage gives no more assurities. A relationship is how you define it, and what you put into it.

[/rant]

P.S. dwarf/shiny - go get a room !

[Fitty]

this thread is about marriage in general, not about mine. let's keep it that way.

You've come out with some pretty strong statements (and only backed them up with other assertions), and I think a request for justification is reasonable. I don't want to know the intimate details, but all the same some idea of where you're coming from would help.

[Fitty]

See the bold bit I highlighted in the original post ? thats exactly the wrong reason to get married for. My advice is never get married just as a public declaration of love and commitement to another person.


Who said it's an outward display of commitment?

[astro]

In many ways, the arranged marriages, with no escape clauses were "easier", though I am certain not happier or as emotionally fulfilling as they were prescribed positions.

Actually, that's an interesting point. One of the guys at my office is indian, and it is common knowledge around here that he is in an arranged marriage. I spoke to him about it one day to get the lowdown, and it's this:

He and his wife were arranged to marry when they were both about 10. When they finally came of age, they hooked up and married and cows were handed back and forth and lar-de-dar.

When I asked him if he loved his wife, he said that he loved her, but it wasn't the lust-based love that we westerners have. He said that they shared a very special friendship, and formed a very functional team to get through everything that may be thrown at them. He said he woulnd't trade it for the world.

[Glompbot]

Look, I think the inarguable facts are that people view marriage as an obvious display of commitment, not, as was suggested, just to others, but to one another as well. I don't think anyone gets into a marriage thinking "Oh, we can just get divorced in five years if it doesn't work out".

The second is that marriage isn't for everyone - Sapia's parents are a good example, although you must admit that both changing their names to be the same and never informing their children of the fact that they were a de facto couple hints towards wanting to be married in all ways except for the legal one.

Its not that they didn't inform us, they thought I knew.
My brothers and sisters knew... As I said, I was just unobservant.

[Arcane1]

(Ref: Cray)You've come out with some pretty strong statements (and only backed them up with other assertions), and I think a request for justification is reasonable. I don't want to know the intimate details, but all the same some idea of where you're coming from would help.
I understand and agree that his statements have been rather black and white, and strong at that, but a demand like that is rather out of bounds. You can't expect him (or anyone else) to justify their feelings.

[Fitty]

I'm not asking him to justify his feelings, just the reasons why he thinks marriage is a crock of shit. And if he has no intellectual justification, just feelings (which is fair enough), he should never have entered into what is mainly an intellectual discussion.

[Glompbot]

I truly believe that marriage should be viewed far more impassionately, look at it like a financial contract, like a merger between two companies; you are working together to pool your resources to make you life verus the world a little easier. Once you are married its like you are in it more for you partner than you are for yourself. I really like some of the ways directed has expressed this so far, I think he understands the right reasons to get married.

I understand where you're coming from here, and in part I tried to express it myself when I said I'd get married for friendship, not love.

Love is too passionate, too firey, and it burns out... Friendship can be the same way, but I've generally found friendship is longer lasting...

At work one day in the kitchen some crappy american TV show was on... Can't remember which.... .
Infact, i think it was sex and the city...

And the gay guy would only get his inheritance if he married... so the female friend and the gay guy said they'd get married.

It was a very impassionate arrangement... Didn't work out, but I think it could have worked out well for both people in that situation.

[rin]

i think the passion burns out if you let it... keep things interesting ;) i know of a few couples who have been married for over 15years who are still as crazy about eachother as when they got married.. if anything, they love eachother more.

communication helps :)

[Fitty]

Ah, sex and the city. So many life lessons - to lick ring, or not to lick ring?

[dwarfthrower]

he should never have entered into what is mainly an intellectual discussion.

This is an intellectual discussion like picking your nose is an olympic sport.

[Arcane1]

I see a lot of marriages that are 20, 30 or so years old that are together because it is too much hassle to end them. Both people have their own lives, take their own trips, and have their own (different) lovers. They are married in name and law only, which resolves the problem of splitting up and the messiness of separating all that time and stuff. At holidays, they put on the happy faces and act like all is well.

Is that a crock of shit? Well, I think so.
Does it work for them and fulfill their needs? Well, I guess so.

I'm glad that I like my wife. No, she isn't perfect, and she drives me nuts in some areas. But considering what a fuck-up I am in some areas, we'll call it even. In most all the areas that I am inept (like handling money) she excells, and in areas where she is inept (like emotional issues) I excell. We complement eachother because we are willing to let the other take over where we are weak.

It took a few tries, but I think that I got it right this time...

[Fitty]

OK, wrong word, but it's not a purely emotional discussion... people have so far justified their comments with reasoning.

[royale]

I understand and agree that his statements have been rather black and white, and strong at that, but a demand like that is rather out of bounds. You can't expect him (or anyone else) to justify their feelings.

So it’s bad for noddy to make stupid statements based on personal belief and experiences but provide little or no justification, but its cool for cray to make stupid statements based on personal belief and experiences but provide little or no justification.

What is the point of writing a fucking stupid statements like “marriage is retarded. anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about” then claiming privacy or the like when asked to provide some substance to your claims. If privacy is your concern shut the fuck up about it.

[imp]

i think the passion burns out if you let it... keep things interesting ;) i know of a few couples who have been married for over 15years who are still as crazy about eachother as when they got married.. if anything, they love eachother more.

communication helps :)

*nods*

Exactly. Variety is the spice of life.
My folks have been together 30 years now and so have their next door neighbours. They married on the same day, hour and year as my folks and both have told me the one reason they stayed together throughout everything.
They're best friends. Simple. :)

I game with astro, spend a lot of time with him just hanging out, he laughs when I fart, i laugh when he farts, we respect each other's space, we talk and work through problems together and we both know that we're meant for each other.

My parents have fought a lot and have threatened to divorce a few times but in the end they knew it was worth fighting for so they did :) I really respect them for that and they've taught me a lot about the value of marriage.

You will never be 100% secure with someone you're with. You'll always have problems and everyone argues. It's a fact of live and love.

if you can accept this, learn to love your partner's flaws and respect who they are then you don't need 100% security :)
Plus there's pretty much no such thing :)

[Arcane1]

So it’s bad for noddy to make stupid statements based on personal belief and experiences but provide little or no justification, but its cool for cray to make stupid statements based on personal belief and experiences but provide little or no justification.

What is the point of writing a fucking stupid statements like “marriage is retarded. anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about” then claiming privacy or the like when asked to provide some substance to your claims. If privacy is your concern shut the fuck up about it.
I was in no way saying that Cray should have been putting his 2 cents in without backing it up. That is his perogative, and his arguments/comments have less merit with the less validation. Regardless, I don't think that you can substantiate comments about marriage in the same ways that you can validate comments about troop strength or political policy. Marriage is an emotional issue at heart, politics, while it gets emotional is grounded in fact. You can state that 49% of all marriages end in divorce in the US and back it up. You can't state why though. You can state that X people are dying in Iraq daily, and for the most part, you can determine why.

[ms edeity]

I am getting married soon and it won't change a minute of our life together - thankfully. My sister's not married and has a committed relationship to admire. It's right for us for reasons no-one else needs to understand and my sister's relationship is right too and no-one should have to explain. It sucks that defacto couples get questioned sometimes (though I never have) but it also sucks that my older, single sister gets questions and my older single uncle gets asked if he's gay. I find these questions are either judgemental or curious based and find it helpful to decide who i talk with and who i disregard.

On the topic of kids: Mine are almost at an age to be able to make coffee and then it'll all have been worthwhile. :D

[Fitty]

Arcane1, your comment about the 20 and 30 year old marriages being farces is bullshit, plain and simple. Sure, some might be like that, but don't generalise.

[Arcane1]

I am getting married soon and it won't change a minute of our life together - thankfully. My sister's not married and has a committed relationship to admire. It's right for us for reasons no-one else needs to understand and my sister's relationship is right too and no-one should have to explain. It sucks that defacto couples get questioned sometimes (though I never have) but it also sucks that my older, single sister gets questions and my older single uncle gets asked if he's gay. I find these questions are either judgemental or curious based and find it helpful to decide who i talk with and who i disregard.

On the topic of kids: Mine are almost at an age to be able to make coffee and then it'll all have been worthwhile. :D
I would like to know after you get married if you still feel that way. My bet is that you do not. Walking down that aisle, or whatever manner of doing so that you follow does change things. That piece of paper makes it a different world in good and bad ways. Or, maybe not.

As for the coffee thing, damn, I agree. When they can go out and get the paper from the drive is really helpful too. I remember the day I walked my son into register for High School, it really freaked me out. Mine are just shy of driving, and that is plain scary.

[Fitty]

Hehe, Arcane1, I remember the first day mum took me out driving. Her knuckles were white from gripping the Jesus bar so hard.

[Arcane1]

Arcane1, your comment about the 20 and 30 year old marriages being farces is bullshit, plain and simple. Sure, some might be like that, but don't generalise.
I wish that that was bullshit, really I do. I see a lot of it here. Maybe it is the money, I don't know. My wife sees a lot of it from the bank side of things too. I have 2 clients that are Dr.s and I know that their vacations and "business" trips aren't with their wives, they are with their "assistants". It is pretty damn sad in my opinion, but as an observer, all I can do is observe and learn that is not the way I want to be in 20 years.

Edit: I am not meaning to generalise, and by no means am I saying that even most are that way. I am saying that a lot, too many that I see are that way.

[royale]

Arcane1, your comment about the 20 and 30 year old marriages being farces is bullshit, plain and simple. Sure, some might be like that, but don't generalise.


WTF??
How did you see an implication that he was generalising about all 20-30 year marriages?? :confused:

[ms edeity]

Arcane I know what you mean and I have to say that I wouldn't be getting married if it wasn't meaningful for me. I was just saying that my life with ed will continue to be my life with ed.

[Arcane1]

Arcane I know what you mean and I have to say that I wouldn't be getting married if it wasn't meaningful for me. I was just saying that my life with ed will continue to be my life with ed.
Continue to be? Nah, sounds to me like you have it so that it will improve on a regular (daily?) basis.

[Fitty]

WTF??
How did you see an implication that he was generalising about all 20-30 year marriages?? :confused:

Like this

I see a lot of marriages that are 20, 30 or so years old that are together because it is too much hassle to end them. Both people have their own lives, take their own trips, and have their own (different) lovers. They are married in name and law only, which resolves the problem of splitting up and the messiness of separating all that time and stuff. At holidays, they put on the happy faces and act like all is well.

[royale]

A lot =/ most, all or a generalisation in my book.

[Chocoholic]

No one including every one who posted their opinions about marriage in I confess has the right to judge my decision about my life. Simple

[dwarfthrower]

No one including every one who posted their opinions about marriage in I confess has the right to judge my decision about my life. Simple

Actually everyone has every right to make whatever judgements they feel like about any given subject. What's more, they have the right to voice those judgements loudly and repeatedly.

What they don't have is the right to force you to conform to them.

[Chocoholic]

Actually everyone has every right to make whatever judgements they feel like about any given subject. What's more, they have the right to voice those judgements loudly and repeatedly.


True, but then again I choose who I associate with

[dwarfthrower]

True, but then again I choose who I associate with
Indeed you do.

[Fitty]

But what that has to do with anything, I don't know. Man, this thread grew quicker than Michael Jackson in a playground.

[Serpent_Girl]

I most definately want to get married one day. But that's just me.

I think it's a very beautiful and loving thing...

And plus, I like weddings :D

So if they're so committed and some such, why NOT get it if it doesn't really change anything? If it's just a piece of paper?

[MisterBishi]

Right for some, wrong for others, like most things in life.

Hopefully it's right for me because with 7 weeks to go its too late to back out.

[ms edeity]

Grats

[imp]

Right for some, wrong for others, like most things in life.

Hopefully it's right for me because with 7 weeks to go its too late to back out.

Good Luck! Post wedding pics!
p.s. Yeah I agree, Different strokes for different folks. Doesn't mean any one person's decision is wrong though. :)

[t101]

I most definately want to get married one day. But that's just me.

I think it's a very beautiful and loving thing...

And plus, I like weddings :D

So if they're so committed and some such, why NOT get it if it doesn't really change anything? If it's just a piece of paper?
Because it costs an absolute fuck-tonne of money to have a proper wedding, and even if you just did the legal thing with no ceremony, why bother? Effort for nothing.

[Whiskers]

I have no interest in getting married.
I don't believe that I will ever meet somebody who will keep me interested for the rest of my life.
I don't want to be irrevocably tied to anybody. I don't want to be somebody's other 'half'.


My fate as crazy cat lady is sealed.

[ms edeity]

Being a crazy cat lady will involve lots of pussy :D I endorse this lifestyle. Not that I am condemning anyone without pussy. What's right for whiskers no-one should try to change.

[kré]

You've come out with some pretty strong statements (and only backed them up with other assertions), and I think a request for justification is reasonable. I don't want to know the intimate details, but all the same some idea of where you're coming from would help.

how's about suck my cock?

I'm not asking him to justify his feelings, just the reasons why he thinks marriage is a crock of shit. And if he has no intellectual justification, just feelings (which is fair enough), he should never have entered into what is mainly an intellectual discussion.

i have my reasons, and they are valid ones, however i don't feel the need to justify them to you. if you think this makes my opinion invalid, i'll go and have a moment of silence in memory of the time when i gave a shit.

[ms edeity]

And that has to be the point I've seen and expressed most - it is a valid because personal opinion.

[Tycho]

marriage... yeah right thing... but I am old fashioned and traditional in that sort of way...

[dozer]

its just a gig for chicks to wear a frilly dress and score diamonds

[ms edeity]

Frilly dress *gag* - no meringues here!!

[Space Cowboy]

See the bold bit I highlighted in the original post ? thats exactly the wrong reason to get married for. My advice is never get married just as a public declaration of love and commitement to another person.

Anyone that knows you both, will already have some understanding of your relationship anyway, and that fact that you live together and stay together is enough proof of your strong feelings.

I truly believe that marriage should be viewed far more impassionately, look at it like a financial contract, like a merger between two companies; you are working together to pool your resources to make you life verus the world a little easier. Once you are married its like you are in it more for you partner than you are for yourself. I really like some of the ways directed has expressed this so far, I think he understands the right reasons to get married.

Ive found the best meaning/definition of the word 'marriage', I learnt oddly during engineering studies. When mechanical cogs intermesh and move together, its called a 'marriage' of gears. Try and visualise that, and hopefully you come to some understanding of my angle.

Incidentally, Ive been married almost 10 years now, been together for 15. Dont ever take the union for granted, or believe its forever. All relationships should be given consideration and reflection all the time, right to the very very end. Marriage gives no more assurities. A relationship is how you define it, and what you put into it.

[/rant]

P.S. dwarf/shiny - go get a room !


This is a very good point about one reason for not getting married. It shouldn't be for other peoples benefit.

Just to clarify, when I was asking the original question i was meaning, is it something you personally want to show someone that you love or have a connection with that you are committed to them.......

[Arcane1]

how's about suck my cock?



i have my reasons, and they are valid ones, however i don't feel the need to justify them to you. if you think this makes my opinion invalid, i'll go and have a moment of silence in memory of the time when i gave a shit.
As long as it is an appropriately short moment.

Too bad this thread had to go hostile by challenges.It was a good topic.
I was thinking about it last night when I went to be and realized that it is nice to get into bed next to someone that I like and enjoy being with. Even if she snores loud enough to rattle the windows.

[Space Cowboy]

Frilly dress *gag* - no meringues here!!

no meringues at my wedding either :D just a little bit of ice in a couple of places....... ;)

[phunkachunka]

I went to be and realized that it is nice to get into bed next to someone that I like and enjoy being with. Even if she snores loud enough to rattle the windows

Agreed! Even though i wake up at least 3 times a night cause she has the bloody doona all on her side and i have none.

You gotta admit, Cray's comeback is justified (and on the witty side). I completely agree with Cray, he is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't need to back it up at all.

Marriage = Good

I'm pretty sure the majority of people don't enter into marriage with bad intentions (if they do, then they have some issues they need sorting out)

How could it ever really be bad. 2 people fall in love, enough to marry, so they do. If it falls over in 1 year, 5 years or longer, doesn't make it a bad thing. People break up, fall out of love with each other. Doesn't mean the initial intent of marriage was a bad thing.

[Space Cowboy]

As long as it is an appropriately short moment.

Too bad this thread had to go hostile by challenges.It was a good topic.
I was thinking about it last night when I went to be and realized that it is nice to get into bed next to someone that I like and enjoy being with. Even if she snores loud enough to rattle the windows.

Each to their own I guess. It is a shame that things can get out of hand when challenges or differences of opinions crop up. I guess things just wouldn't be as entertaining if we didn't rub people the wrong way sometimes.

[Space Cowboy]

Agreed! Even though i wake up at least 3 times a night cause she has the bloody doona all on her side and i have none.

You gotta admit, Cray's comeback is justified (and on the witty side). I completely agree with Cray, he is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't need to back it up at all.

Marriage = Good

I'm pretty sure the majority of people don't enter into marriage with bad intentions (if they do, then they have some issues they need sorting out)

How could it ever really be bad. 2 people fall in love, enough to marry, so they do. If it falls over in 1 year, 5 years or longer, doesn't make it a bad thing. People break up, fall out of love with each other. Doesn't mean the initial intent of marriage was a bad thing.


but then there is always another side.

[phunkachunka]

Please Explain?

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters.

long enough now vBulletin? why must you mock me?

[Arcane1]

Agreed! Even though i wake up at least 3 times a night cause she has the bloody doona all on her side and i have none.

You gotta admit, Cray's comeback is justified (and on the witty side). I completely agree with Cray, he is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't need to back it up at all.

Agreed. I only use the sheet, she takes all the covers. I usually don't sleep but until between 5-9am anyway due to my internal clock being whacked. She leaves for work about 7, so it works well.

But if I could only get her to stop smoking.... aargh. And no, I don't try to as I keep my mouth shhut on the topic (most of the time).

[Vardsy]

marriage is retarded. anyone that doesn't agree doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.

That is a really open view you hold there cray.

[Girl.]

Like pretty much everyone else in this thread, I think it depends on the person. My parents have been married for over 30 years and have been together since my mother was 16 and my dad was 20, and they are still blissfully happy and disgustingly in love. I've never seen them fight, ever. They do everything together and if one is kept apart from the other for too long (and by too long, I mean more than a few hours) they get all lonely.

Having said that, I don't think marriage would be right for me. I'm part of a fairly large (Indian) family and all of my cousins married young, so now some members of my family are hinting that I should get married. While I'm thankful that they aren't demanding an arranged marriage (my cousin got married last year to someone she had never met before in her life), I am not ready to commit to anyone or anything at the moment. Over the next year, I'll be finishing Uni, going overseas, moving to a different city and starting a new job, and I'm not sure of where I'll end up at the end of all of it, or what my priorities will be.

I'm happy with the way my relationship is -- we are best friends, we understand each other and the way we are at the moment works, so why change it? I think that a lot of people want a wedding but not a marriage.

I should also point out that this isn't intended to be an attack on anyone else's choices. If getting married is right for you, then that's fantastic. It's just not right for me.

[Vardsy]

you are a retard!

That may be so - but I have wife who loves me and I wouldn't go one waking minut..........................

what am I saying????...... :confused:

[MisterBishi]

Sorry Misterbishi, your post was infected. Only FIRE can cleanse these sins.

[Javaira]

For me the reality of marriage was that it did change things. I really didn't expect it too.

We had been together 8 years, lived together 6 before my husband and I got married. He was really keen (from a happy married family) I was rather reluctant (from a sad divorced family, as opposed to those happy divorced ones).

In the end, I thought what the hell, its just a piece of paper, we have a kid, a house, committment, love, what difference will it make.

It made a difference, and for the good. People around us viewed our relationship differently. My parents developed a relationship with my husband that was more than friendship, he was now family. His parents did the same with me. Friends, family, strangers, all now had a compartment for our relationship, a compartment that comes with more respect than the Defacto compartment.

People respect marriages, well more than they respect Defacto relationships, I am not sure why.

I would love to say that what other people thought of our relationship didn't matter to me, but that isn't true. It mattered more than I thought it would.

It also changed the way we considered our relationship. We thought about the vows, they actually mean something. That silly ceremony, that is just a piece of paper, holds me back from going to a place where there is no returning, no matter how angry I get, no matter how hurt I am. I no longer test the boundaries, I understand them, I trust them and I am very happy.

I am sure everyones reality of marriage is different. There is no right or wrong.

[Vardsy]

I just love saying "my wife"

"my wife was meant to meet me here"

"my wife should be able to sign for me"

"my wife doesn't need to know that I am still here at the pub"

[Space Cowboy]

This thread still lives? what have I started!!!???

[kré]

That is a really open view you hold there cray.
if it were that i had come to my opinion simply by reading women's magazines or by reading nomarriage.com, i'd take your sarcasm as a 'fair enough' quip, however, life experience has branded me so.

[kré]

Sorry Cray, I love you man, at least I'll say I do so I can be part of your e-clique. Do we still have those? Post purged.

[Cassa]

Love is a pretty fucking stupid thing to base a major life decision on, but that doesn't stop people doing it every single day. Love changes, people change, life changes.

You need more than love to weather the tough times, and believe me they come for everyone. The joy you feel on your wedding day, and having that piece of paper signed, is not a magic balm that will protect you from disease, death, family breakdown, destitution, and all those other pesky things that like to ruin your life from time to time.

Of course, anyone getting married (or recently married) would read this and think 'It won't happen to me, our relationship is different, we'll survive because our love is strong'. But the sad fact is, 50% of couples that think this end up being wrong. I think Girl. is very right when she says people want a wedding but not a marriage. It's for life, not just for Christmas and all that rot.

I'm happily married and I love Andrew, but I'm under no illusion that love is timeless and that because 'we were made for each other' we'll never have problems, because it's just not true. Unhappiness in any quarter of your life can usually be attributed to the gap between the ideal (imagined) and the real - I believe the special reverance attached to marriage makes it more vulnerable, not less, to suffering from the wearing effects of reality. I hope everyone in this thread manages to maintain long-lived and happy partnerships, but statistically I'm afraid that won't be the case.

[skifux21]

I believe marriage is great if you yourself commit to it, I read some online statistic about a good percentage of marriage ends up in divorce like 50% almost or more. I think if a person really believe he or she could commit togheter in a way regardless of troubles they could have a great long lasting happy marriage.

Also i found this bit of information online interesting.
On Males if they are agressive in personality usually find them self about 30-50% find them self divorced mainly because they sleep out of marriage to much and they have a 50% of even marrying, men who are less aggresive and love to be home and spend time with their spouse have obviously a higher chance to have a sucessful marriage.

[Arcane1]

I just love saying "my wife"

"my wife was meant to meet me here"

"my wife should be able to sign for me"

"my wife doesn't need to know that I am still here at the pub"
I like the one: "You'll have to ask "my wife", she is in charge of the social calendar"

[MisterBishi]

Hay guys

[Holster]

whoooosh............

[MisterBishi]

Sorry Misterbishi. I couldn't save your post.

[Glompbot]

Maybe this thread should be moved to B&R

[MisterBishi]

Leave it here and if Arcane1 wants to discuss this further we can make another thread.

My wife-to-be says "get back on topic!"

[Thyrd]

I personally don't have a strong oppinion one way or the other about marriage. It is all a matter or personal oppinion and cannot be deemed "good or bad" as this discussion is endeavouring to find out. Especially in todays society where religion is fading further and further away from the youth. It's not something that is widely expected anymore.

If people have the oppinion that marriage is unnecessary and stupid, then they must have their reasons. Be it personal experience or just a rational conclusion they've made.

On the other hand if different people wish to get married and "publicly declare" their love, that's also a matter of personal oppinion. Marriage can't be deemed right or wrong, good or bad just because of a short discussion.

Like I said, all a matter of personal opinion

[Afro88]

This whole non-marriage thing makes alot of sense, I completely understand where you're guys are coming from but... have you ever met one of those unmarried middle aged dudes who have been with the same woman for 10 years or whatever, lives with her, takes care of her kids and stuff and refers to her as his "partner"? But they're not married...

It's creepy man.

[Glompbot]

This whole non-marriage thing makes alot of sense, I completely understand where you're guys are coming from but... have you ever met one of those unmarried middle aged dudes who have been with the same woman for 10 years or whatever, lives with her, takes care of her kids and stuff and refers to her as his "partner"? But they're not married...

It's creepy man.


You're saying my dad (http://turtling.org/pictures/19-6-05/dadmumkitchen.jpg) is creepy? (ok, I admit, his one red-eye looks kinda creepy there... but thats cause of the operation!!)

:spingo:


Actually, I've never heard my parents refer to each other as "partner", nor anyone else for that matter.

Its always "John" (or Hansi depending upon who you speak to), and "Win" (Or Winsome - again, depending upon who is anal enough to call them by their real/full names).

[lostreality]

You're saying my dad (http://turtling.org/pictures/19-6-05/dadmumkitchen.jpg) is creepy? (ok, I admit, his one red-eye looks kinda creepy there... but thats cause of the operation!!)

:spingo:


Actually, I've never heard my parents refer to each other as "partner", nor anyone else for that matter.

Its always "John" (or Hansi depending upon who you speak to), and "Win" (Or Winsome - again, depending upon who is anal enough to call them by their real/full names).


i think your dad needs some new jumpers and your mum needs some new cooking pots.

[Glompbot]

Thats the pot she cooks the dog food in.
And dad doesn't like throwing anything out...



Seriously though, for how long they've been together, they exist in such a way that doesn't make you doubt the stability of their relationship at all.... and they don't need to be married for that....

[Arcane1]

Seriously though, for how long they've been together, they exist in such a way that doesn't make you doubt the stability of their relationship at all.... and they don't need to be married for that....
Sapia's parents have probably hit on the one key ingredient that hasn't been brought up here yet: Respect.

I realized awhile ago that regardless of love, or like, as long as you respect the person that you are with then things will work through to the long run. You aren't always going to "love" your partner, Hell, there are going to be times that you really can't stand your partner- married or not. But the bottom line has to be that if there is respect for that person and their place in your life you realize and acknowledge that they are a part of you.

I don't always appreciate my wife and some aspects, the fact that she smokes drives me nuts. We have totally different backgrounds also, hers being very Greek Orthodox and mine being MidWest Blah. She has a lot of wierd traditions that I think are a bit looney, but I respect them regardless. It is reciprocated, and we work very well together.

I think that everyone here has stated in some manner that "love" and "passion" and all that flame out over time, respect grows stronger if it is nurtured properly and makes a proper foundation. Of course once it is damaged critically, then another whole issue arises.

[CharmedOne]

It's funny I have a few friends that are newly weds, like I am.. But we see things completely different.

One can't understand why her husband doesn't share more with her.. his feelings, his time.. My answer to this was, if he didn't do it before, being married isn't going to suddenly make him a SNAG! But for some retarded reason she thought he would be as happy and willing to share as she was...

WRONG.

Now for my other friend..

Her husband thinks that it sucks that he doesn't get "ALONE TIME" anymore( this coming from a guy who till 4 weeks ago, worked 3dys per week, 4-6hrs per day, would come home and sleep all afternoon- he is a preschool teacher) and has now instructed her that he needs "pete time" at least once a day for a few hours and also when he paints ( crap girly shit) that she isn't allowed to talk to him.. it is HIS time..

She on the other hand can't believe what he wants and is upset..but has told him just recently to "grow up".

When I got married I was lucky that I was marrying my best friend.. We talk openly about everything. We bounce idea's off each other, openly encourage the other and I have to say have grown closer being married. It works for us. There are times when we argue.. but at least we can admit our faults and work through them. Darkside has stood beside me through all that has happened... and is even willing to learn sign language with me..

Marriage isn't for everyone.. God, Darksides ex-wife is a prime example.. from what we have heard her new husband gets in trouble for eating his pizza like darkside did.. the poor guy is being compared all the time. She doesn't want a husband and never did.. all she wants is a whipping post.

[ms edeity]

have you ever met one of those unmarried middle aged dudes who have been with the same woman for 10 years or whatever, lives with her, takes care of her kids and stuff and refers to her as his "partner"? But they're not married...

It's creepy man.
From the creepy file - i knew an older couple, not married, no kids together, been dating maybe a year and they referred to each other as mum and dad. That's cringeworthy.

[Siral]

Sapia's parents have probably hit on the one key ingredient that hasn't been brought up here yet: Respect.

I realized awhile ago that regardless of love, or like, as long as you respect the person that you are with then things will work through to the long run. You aren't always going to "love" your partner, Hell, there are going to be times that you really can't stand your partner- married or not. But the bottom line has to be that if there is respect for that person and their place in your life you realize and acknowledge that they are a part of you.

I don't always appreciate my wife and some aspects, the fact that she smokes drives me nuts. We have totally different backgrounds also, hers being very Greek Orthodox and mine being MidWest Blah. She has a lot of wierd traditions that I think are a bit looney, but I respect them regardless. It is reciprocated, and we work very well together.

I think that everyone here has stated in some manner that "love" and "passion" and all that flame out over time, respect grows stronger if it is nurtured properly and makes a proper foundation. Of course once it is damaged critically, then another whole issue arises.



Respect also lead to the major ingredient, compromise.

Asmo and i have been together 10years or so and if weren't for those 2 things we would of killed each other in 6mos. We're very different people in world views and attitudes but our rule is "who ever will be annoyed more wins". For example he's always too warm so hates eating outside, today tho i really really wanted to so we found a spot to eat outside in the shade and i tried to eat a bit quicker then normal. See compromise.

We also when looking for a house to buy looked for a place that was big enough for us to get away from each other when we wanted to since niether one of us is big on people breathing our air. So what we're doing is gaming computers in the same room together and we each get an area for our other hobbies.


I hate watching those couples where one partner wants it all because i know they'll never work. Asmo does things for me and i do things for him, very different things but still a gave and take of needs being met.

Not to say that we don't fight we do and loudly, but never on major issues and mostly because of outside stresses, we also have loud discussions til we sort out major compromises. We call it our quarterly fight since we only holler once every couple months for an hour or so.


Btw this post was asmo approved :)

[Arcane1]

Respect also lead to the major ingredient, compromise.


Absolutely. That is the most important aspect, I alluded to it when I mentioned that Voula and I have very different backgrounds. There are things that are horribly important to her that I find simply absurd, and of course, likewise. The rule here that I follow is that if it is important to her, then it is important to me. I may not have a clue what is important to me then, but it is. A good example is going to Greek Church over the Holidays where you sit, stand, sit, stand, stand, stand, stand, sit, kneel, repeat for about 3 hours. Of course she does things like drive me to O'Hare on her day off to meet ZGeeks and lead all of us around the airport.
I have tried to teach this to the kids, but I don't think they get it yet.

(BTW- Welcome to ZGeek)

[imp]

I think the respect and compromise thing pretty much comes down to one thing and that's that in any relationship (business, family, marriage) people need to realise it's a two way street.

You have to give to recieve and that includes respect. That's why I think friendships are a really good basis for relationships. :)

Regardless though I still think the strong bond you feel with someone in the form of love is a large part of marriage. The other aspects (for me anyways) seem to just come along with that. Maybe it's b/c we've been such good friends for a while or maybe I just want to treat him as well as he treats me I don't know.

I'd feel disrespecting astro would be like disrespecting myself. :)

I look forward to a long and healthy marriage with astro. I have every confidence that we can work through anything together (we've already worked through one break up years ago plus a few hiccups) and that we'll be there for each other through good times and bad :)

[SamBo]

why the fuck would you marry someone you don't love?
That's what is wrong with marriage. The people who get married for:
convenience
to wear a pretty dress and a big ring
to brag to their friends about it
to guarentee that they have someone with them all the time because they can't function on their own

Those people make me sick and you know that they will either get into a messy divorce a few years down the track, or be miserable all their lives.

Personally I would love to get married, but only if I love my partner 100% (which I just so happen to do so :) ). I want the best for myself and my partner and am willing to do whatever I possibly can for that to happen and I know that I will get that in return as well.

why do I care about the failed marriages? Well, unlike a fair few people in this world and on this site I actually care about other people, even those that I don't know. Divorce is a horrible thing in most cases (every couple in my entire family that has ever married is has been divorced at least once) and I would never want to put someone through that unless it was completly necessary. I think that if people get married for the right reasons in the first place, and don't rush into getting married and actually get to know their partner first, then we wouldn't have so many divorces.

[Afro88]

You're saying my dad (http://turtling.org/pictures/19-6-05/dadmumkitchen.jpg) is creepy? (ok, I admit, his one red-eye looks kinda creepy there... but thats cause of the operation!!)

:spingo:


Actually, I've never heard my parents refer to each other as "partner", nor anyone else for that matter.

Its always "John" (or Hansi depending upon who you speak to), and "Win" (Or Winsome - again, depending upon who is anal enough to call them by their real/full names).

OMG, Terminator dad!1!!

But that's fair enough, and I'm sure your parents relationship isn't creepy or anything, I'm just talking from my experience. I used to go out with a girl whose parents were in a similar situation. Her mum was divorced, and she had a partner. They had been together for like 10 years and you could never help but wonder why they never got married... He was a weird guy though - it was fully like he was her step dad, but he had nothing to do with her mum. They'd talk and stuff, but you couldn't tell they were together at all...

This is very much a contradiction on my part - I understand why marriage isn't necessary, but at the same time I also find it difficult to put aside the thought of "why wouldn't you get married, mark the occasion, make your love for your 'partner' official?" Sure some people see it as just a legality, but it's also such a romantic gesture that I personally couldn't pass up if I knew I loved the person and sincerely wanted to spend the rest of my life with them. Something as important as that deserves a day to be remembered and celebrated each year.

By the way, I'm not asking you to reveal or question your parents situation Sapia, I'm just talking in general here. Not trying to stir anything up!

[imp]

This is very much a contradiction on my part - I understand why marriage isn't necessary, but at the same time I also find it difficult to put aside the thought of "why wouldn't you get married, mark the occasion, make your love for your 'partner' official?" Sure some people see it as just a legality, but it's also such a romantic gesture that I personally couldn't pass up if I knew I loved the person and sincerely wanted to spend the rest of my life with them. Something as important as that deserves a day to be remembered and celebrated each year.


I couldn't have put it better myself :)

[Snowball]

I am excited to get married next year because for me it is a sign of commitment to the other person.

I never wanted to get married, i never wanted to buy a house but as i got oldelr it was right for me.

As for Cray, why not try and contribute to this thread instead of saying stupid shit like "marriage is retarded" you look like a pathetic bitter person.
If your relationship is so fucking bad, do something about it instead of moaning and telling everyone how much your relationship sucks.

[Arcane1]

why the fuck would you marry someone you don't love?
That's what is wrong with marriage. The people who get married for:
convenience
Good question.
The answer turns out to be a pretty basic one however. It has only been in the last couple generations that marriage has been more a function of "love" than of practicality. Many cultures still maintain marriage for the sole purpose of political or social power, thus the massive dowry that is needed in most middle eastern countries. Marriage there still is determined by the parents, and it is not uncommon for the bride and groom to meet on their wedding day. There are many families that have brought this cultural reality to the States, and I know of a couple cases where the girl was ostracised due to refusing to marry some guy that her family picked out. How many 17 year old girls want to marry some 50 year old guy because he and her Father have struck a deal?

It the US, marriage was commonly a function of a woman wanting to get away from her family, and the man needing a partner in order to survive. The country was settled by extremely strong women that supported their husbands by maintaining a home front and caring for children until they were old enough to contribute to supporting the household.

My own wife's first marriage was "arranged" by her Mother, and due to cultural pressures, religious bullshit, and family "norms" she indeed went through with it. That was a Greek thing, and as recent as the early 80's. The fact that he was an abusive fuckwit and that she divorced him was a bad thing, according to the cultural and religious beliefs, SHE was the one in the wrong. Go figure.

Politically, marriage has always been the "right" thing to do, as it looks better. Even gays historically have maintained hetero-marriages in order to not be outed in society.

Now, is all this really fucked up? Absolutely. History is history though, and we can't just go delete the aspects that we want to. Well, ok, some governments heavily edit the history books taught in schools, but that is a different story altogether.

[Sambellina]

Right for some, wrong for others, like most things in life.


Very true.

My parents are divorced and I've been divorced so I should be bitter and against marriage. It's right for us to get married and it's something we both want. Also like with most things in life you learn from your mistakes and you continue to learn.

[kré]

I am excited to get married next year because for me it is a sign of commitment to the other person.

I never wanted to get married, i never wanted to buy a house but as i got oldelr it was right for me.

As for Cray, why not try and contribute to this thread instead of saying stupid shit like "marriage is retarded" you look like a pathetic bitter person.
If your relationship is so fucking bad, do something about it instead of moaning and telling everyone how much your relationship sucks.
i look like a pathetic, bitter person. that's ripe coming from you.

[Arcane1]

Take it to a new thread, both of you. Cray has as much right to be bitter as Snowball has to be elated. Damn, people have a right to their feelings and don't need to justify them.

[Glompbot]

why the fuck would you marry someone you don't love?

If I was more open to the idea of marriage than I am.... I would marry someone I don't love over someone I did.

I made the mistake of leaving someone once, who I didn't love, but I was very, very fond of and felt incredibly comfortable around... for someone I loved passionately.

I've regretted it ever since.

I didn't go a week without fighting with the person I loved... yet I never *once* fought with the person I was fond of. The person I was fond of made me consistently happy.... and the person I loved made me feel both highs and lows... Both were relationships that lasted for a decent amount of time.

[Glompbot]

By the way, I'm not asking you to reveal or question your parents situation Sapia, I'm just talking in general here. Not trying to stir anything up!

I understand :D I was being semi-silly anyway... Only one thing said so far has offended me, and it wasn't said by you...

With my parents... I think a big part of it is neither are big on religion, and they've always been fairly poor (rich in assets but money poor).

My dad being an immigrant to australia after WW2 with his adopted parents (he was 3 at the time), got christened *and* baptised, and ended up with a mouthful of names to suck up to everyone in the community... (he has 3 middle names "Lewis William Charles"!!)... At the time they didn't have running water on the property, and had to rely upon their neighbours.

He also went to two types of churces to keep both of his parents happy... (lutheran and catholic)

So you can understand where the sick of religion thing comes from. He doesn't deny anyone of us the right to be religious, but he isn't...

My mum I know was raised as Church of England... but she has never gone for a church for anything other than a wedding, christening, or funeral.

Marriage is also an expensive event... My parents wouldn't own property if it wasn't for the fact that my grandparents bought it 50 odd years ago... And I always remember them struggling (although, we always had our household comforts, and we did own several cars and a boat... but my mum always made our clothes until we reached an age where we cared about it)



I think that the fact that marriage would have been too expensive for them was the sub-factor in them being a defacto couple, the main reason would have been my dad really dislikes the church (not god, mind you... just the church)... and that probably would have been the main reason.

[The Cunt]

If I was more open to the idea of marriage than I am.... I would marry someone I don't love over someone I did.

I made the mistake of leaving someone once, who I didn't love, but I was very, very fond of and felt incredibly comfortable around... for someone I loved passionately.

I've regretted it ever since.

I didn't go a week without fighting with the person I loved... yet I never *once* fought with the person I was fond of. The person I was fond of made me consistently happy.... and the person I loved made me feel both highs and lows... Both were relationships that lasted for a decent amount of time.
Playing WoW is like a marriage.

[Arcane1]

This (formerly) interesting and productive thread is about marriage, and whether it is right for different people.

[Cassa]

You made a good point a few posts back arcane1, something that I was going to mention as well, that marriage and love, until recently, really were quite mutually exclusive concepts. If you were lucky then you might love the person you married but if you didn't, too bad, you just got on with it. It's gone from being a very community/family oriented enterprise to being extremely individualistic and I think that's part of the reason so many fail. Egocentric society has a lot to answer for.

[Arcane1]

You made a good point a few posts back arcane1, something that I was going to mention as well, that marriage and love, until recently, really were quite mutually exclusive concepts. If you were lucky then you might love the person you married but if you didn't, too bad, you just got on with it. It's gone from being a very community/family oriented enterprise to being extremely individualistic and I think that's part of the reason so many fail. Egocentric society has a lot to answer for.
Egocentric? Are you implying that any current social schema is egocentric? Certainly not the US model or "I want it now" and "All for ME ME ME".
Ahem... Agreed, the more short term individualistic and less family oriented and selfish people become, the higher the divorce rate has climbed. Currently in the US it is estomated at 51%.

Go figure.

[Cassa]

should this be in the relationships forum?

[Chocoholic]

should this be in the relationships forum?
Depends, do you think Cray and Snowball should talk about their e-relationship?

[still life]

My parents are married, but never seemed to be that happy with the idea in my life time, married in a registry office. Not the happiest of marriages but they are both commited and have been together for decades. I never considered marriage to be something I'd do until I met a nice (at the time) girl, went through a few years together and finally the normal social and relationship pressures got to me. It was a mistake, but not one I really regret. I lost two good friends, the rest of it doesn't really matter. What was said about people wanting weddings is very true.

But, if I hadn't married and divorced, I would never be who am I now, or found zgeek (cult of zgeek?), either.

It's very true that marriage doesn't fix problems, but beyond that, it also tends to make them worse. I'm also glad the married part of my life is over. It's not something I need in my life atm. That said I've been in a very close and positive relationship for over a year now, and I couldn't be happier with it. It has been my experience that the things that make good friendships make good relationships; as does having a similar perspective.

[Zan]

Guys, I love you. But SHUT THE FUCK UP. You can circle-jerk over in B&R.

</nazimod>

[Space Cowboy]

Damn, looks like I missed out on all the action in my own thread!! *shakes fist at Zand3r*

[Space Cowboy]

Please explain


The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters.

long enough now vBulletin? why must you mock me?

Do I really need to explain or give a reason?

[Space Cowboy]

if it were that i had come to my opinion simply by reading women's magazines or by reading nomarriage.com, i'd take your sarcasm as a 'fair enough' quip, however, life experience has branded me so.

I would just like to say that if life experience had branded you with an open view on marriage, wouldn't that view be from both sides and not a view that appears totally against it and that everyone who gets married has it wrong?

[Arcane1]

Not until George W. Bush takes over and mandates exactly what a marriage is/aught to be does any of this matter, really. Everyone should have the right to do as they wish, feel and need within reasonable bounds.

That said, I am going back to bed with my wife, whom I love and respect even if she does drive me nuts at times.

EDIT: And snores like all Hell too.

[royale]

If I was more open to the idea of marriage than I am.... I would marry someone I don't love over someone I did.

I made the mistake of leaving someone once, who I didn't love, but I was very, very fond of and felt incredibly comfortable around... for someone I loved passionately.

I've regretted it ever since.

I didn't go a week without fighting with the person I loved... yet I never *once* fought with the person I was fond of. The person I was fond of made me consistently happy.... and the person I loved made me feel both highs and lows... Both were relationships that lasted for a decent amount of time.

Maybe you need to reconsider your definition of love. It sounds like you left someone you loved for someone you were passionately in lust with.

[imp]

Maybe you need to reconsider your definition of love. It sounds like you left someone you loved for someone you were passionately in lust with.

A lot of people mistake lust for love. I've done it LOADS of times and I'm not scared to admit it :)

[Glompbot]

Maybe you need to reconsider your definition of love. It sounds like you left someone you loved for someone you were passionately in lust with.

Oh, I was in lust with him too... Thats what drew me to him.

I did lots of reevaluating after that relationship (lots of drugs and lots of alcohol too), and I did love him for who he was and the things he did... and I was happy in his company... but there were parts of who he was that hurt me... which is why we fought so much... He was unwilling to compromise for me, and I felt I'd already done more than I could.

He once proposed to me on NYE. He was drunk though... so I didn't answer him.

One month after we broke up, he was with the person he had been sleeping with for 18 months of the 2 year relationship we had. 4 months after they got engaged.... From what I hear, the situation is much the same, except he's in my role, and she's playing his. They're still together.

I don't think they'll ever be happy if they do get married... and its not jealousy or anger speaking, and I'm not the only person who has that opinion, a few mutual friends have said as much to me.

As for the first guy, I didn't.... I was incredibly fond of him... if I gave it time or let myself I would have loved him. I had a few things happening at that time... and I messed up.

In part, those experiences are the reason I have the opinion I do on marriage.

[Space Cowboy]

Marriage is also an expensive event... My parents wouldn't own property if it wasn't for the fact that my grandparents bought it 50 odd years ago... And I always remember them struggling (although, we always had our household comforts, and we did own several cars and a boat... but my mum always made our clothes until we reached an age where we cared about it)

I think that the fact that marriage would have been too expensive for them was the sub-factor in them being a defacto couple, the main reason would have been my dad really dislikes the church (not god, mind you... just the church)... and that probably would have been the main reason.

Marriage doesn't have to be an expensive event, it's the people who make it expensive.

[Arcane1]

Marriage doesn't have to be an expensive event, it's the people who make it expensive.
For some, the actual act and process of getting married is more important than being married. How do I know this? Ha! I lived through it. I could have sworn that another person was swapped into my reality a few days later. To crown it all off, after almost a year I finally did all the "thank you" notes myself. After 18 months, I rented her an apartment, paid 6 months rent, and moved her into it.

[imp]

Marriage doesn't have to be an expensive event, it's the people who make it expensive.

Yep exactly, it's all a personal choice in regards to how much you spend. Plus you don't have to get married in a church, you can use a celebrant like we're going to. :)

My parents were'nt very well off when they got hitched. It was a very small ceremony, only a couple of people and mum couldn't even speak english! 30yrs later though and they're still bestest friends :D

[Glompbot]

I'm not saying just the 'wedding' is expensive... there are other costs involved in being legally married.

[imp]

I'm not saying just the 'wedding' is expensive... there are other costs involved in being legally married.

Explain?

[Glompbot]

From what I understand its mostly a cost of time.

I might be a bit skewed with my information as the only people I know who have gotten married lately have been non australian residents marrying an australian.

Changing name, getting birth certificates, changing bills, and so on.

[Chocoholic]

From what I understand its mostly a cost of time.

I might be a bit skewed with my information as the only people I know who have gotten married lately have been non australian residents marrying an australian.

Changing name, getting birth certificates, changing bills, and so on.


You don’t have to change your name when you get married. Another well informed post by Sapia. If you insist on playing devils advocate perhaps you should get your facts right! What exactly is the stat on migrant weddings?

[ms edeity]

I sent away for a birth certificate...it came in the post. I have to send away for a copy of my decree nisi...then turn up mostly. We're getting married at gin palace. A fake "wedding" will follow for our families in January. So our actual marriage will be what we want. I like the load off my shoulders with all other opinions thing that's happened since we decided to go this way - funnily enough the "fake" wedding now seems like it will be fun.

Interestingly- I would like to note that the strong opinions expressed about whether or not to get married are equally strong about how people get married. I am astounded by the level of input some (even strangers) have contributed and the offence people take if I don't agree.

[Glompbot]

What is gin palace?


With immigrant weddings you need to get as many people as possible to write reference type things and vouch that it isn't a scam wedding, you need to pay several hundred to be considered, you have interviews with official people, and then you have to pay some more... You need birth certificates, criminal records get looked at....

Its all very stressful, one friend is in canada at the moment, she *thought* she was divorced, but it turns out her 'ex' husband never lodged the paperwork... so that was only the beginning of her stress... then her visa ran out and she returned ot canada, and now she's attempting to save as quickly as possible so she can be with the man she loves. I think she needs about $1000 for it.....

[Holster]

I think you will find you dont require any of that to actually get married here.

You only need all of those requirements when you apply for a spouse Visa. On a side note you dont even have to, or want to get married for a spouse visa, living together for 12 months is considered the same as getting married to the dept. of immigration.

[ImRonImCDN]

Marriage is great! We would all do it again if we had too.

[Cassa]

Changing your name is actually more hassle than you think it will be. I know you don't *have* to get it done, but most people still do.

Also let's try to keep 'wedding' and 'marriage' separate in these discussions.

[dwarfthrower]

Also let's try to keep 'wedding' and 'marriage' separate in these discussions.

169 posts in is a bit late to be calling for sense and rational discussion :p

Anyway, anybody who doesn't posess a burning desire to get married to the first warm body that comes along is obviously emotionally crippled and gets their kicks out of devaluing the institution of marriage and contributing to the general decay of society. And anyone who does believe that they may one day find someone that they might like to marry is obviously disrespecting couples who aren't married and forcing others to live according to their own impossibly high moral standards.

[Cassa]

Calling for sense and rational discussion in Zgeek in general is like asking someone to knit with soup

[locust]

Changing your name will probably become easier if almost everything ends up being tied in to the same national identity card.

(I lean heavily towards 'wrong' on both changing your name when you get married, and the Australia Card).

[Cassa]

I don't approve of the identity card.

I changed my name because my former one was very common yet mispronounced/spelled all the time

[locust]

You changed your first name at the same time?

[Cassa]

*slap* My first name has never been common.

[Arcane1]

Calling for sense and rational discussion in Zgeek in general is like asking someone to knit with soup
Damn, and here I was trying to herd cats with a fishing pole.

[Space Cowboy]

I wonder where this thread is going to end up next?

[Space Cowboy]

Calling for sense and rational discussion in Zgeek in general is like asking someone to knit with soup

I thought the serious forum was to discuss things and give opinions as adults........ok, i take back the adults bit :D

[ms edeity]

http://www2.visitvictoria.com/displayObject.cfm/ObjectID.58737DFA-E93C-46E4-8FF0DDFE727F6EBC/vvt.vhtml
this is gin palace :D - Sorry kinda off topic - except to say it's a good reason to get married......??!!

[Arcane1]

I wonder where this thread is going to end up next?
At the Gin Palace! And it looks cool too!

[RASPUTIN]

Can't believe I missed this one. Oh well.

I like being married and in my case I married my best friend so it was right for me. Funnily enough we had kids, bought the house before we even started to think about marriage. We got engauged about 6mths into our living together part of the relationship and at the time figured that was enough. Now a good thing about getting married after you have had kids is that they can be your best man/give the bride away :). Pretty funny at the time.

My marriage was special so i'll briefly go into it. Hey it may make you laugh. I guess what started the marriage idea off was when I jokingly called my kids bastards. Wifey said something and I replied but they are. They were born out of wedlock. We also went hmmm might look better on paper and the bank accounts so I said well lets just go and sign the papers and do it at the registry. Wifey went ok and organised the paper work I signed my life away and then nothing more seemed to happen. At the time I was very busy with work flying about the place so it easily slipped my mind. Then one day my boss said I have to go to this conference and do a talk on w2k compliance as most of our big customers were at the time just starting to look into it. So off I rocked to this black suite and tie do to do my con-man thing to suck as much money out of them as possible. Nah not really just give my companies view on things. So I rocked up and walked into the foyer and what do I see. Pretty much everyone I know standing around this staircase looking at me smiling. I went huh how unusual. Then wifey walked down the stair looking... well she nearly floored me.. She gets down the bottom and said will you marry me. I went bloody oath, everyone cracked up and away we went. :) one of the best nights I have ever had.

Marriage is good but you HAVE to be best of best friends and I personally feel have to live together for at least a couple of years first and to have bought your first home. If you can get through that AND have some ripper arguements and get over them without any lingering resentment all will be good I reckon.

[Bifrost]

Can't believe I missed this one. Oh well.

I like being married and in my case I married my best friend so it was right for me. Funnily enough we had kids, bought the house before we even started to think about marriage. We got engauged about 6mths into our living together part of the relationship and at the time figured that was enough. Now a good thing about getting married after you have had kids is that they can be your best man/give the bride away :). Pretty funny at the time.

My marriage was special so i'll briefly go into it. Hey it may make you laugh. I guess what started the marriage idea off was when I jokingly called my kids bastards. Wifey said something and I replied but they are. They were born out of wedlock. We also went hmmm might look better on paper and the bank accounts so I said well lets just go and sign the papers and do it at the registry. Wifey went ok and organised the paper work I signed my life away and then nothing more seemed to happen. At the time I was very busy with work flying about the place so it easily slipped my mind. Then one day my boss said I have to go to this conference and do a talk on w2k compliance as most of our big customers were at the time just starting to look into it. So off I rocked to this black suite and tie do to do my con-man thing to suck as much money out of them as possible. Nah not really just give my companies view on things. So I rocked up and walked into the foyer and what do I see. Pretty much everyone I know standing around this staircase looking at me smiling. I went huh how unusual. Then wifey walked down the stair looking... well she nearly floored me.. She gets down the bottom and said will you marry me. I went bloody oath, everyone cracked up and away we went. :) one of the best nights I have ever had.

Marriage is good but you HAVE to be best of best friends and I personally feel have to live together for at least a couple of years first and to have bought your first home. If you can get through that AND have some ripper arguements and get over them without any lingering resentment all will be good I reckon.See now that is cool. You both showed just how much you love each other in your own way and it worked out beautifully for you. Like I said - innumerable ways.

Of course my gf has told me many times that if I ever try the surprise wedding or ask-to-marry-her-in-front-of-an-audiece shit she'll tell me to piss off.