Ugh

[Canalien]

Right, so I'm at a very frustrating point where I need to find myself an entirely new career direction... Anyway, what's frustrating is there's not a lot I find myself drawn towards. One of the ideas I thought of was Graphic Design... it sounds like the kind of job I'd enjoy and could be good at. Does anyone here work in the industry? Or does anyone here have any advice on changing direction in general?

[wolfpac181]

Database administrator. I always see those in wanted ads. and pay top notch too

[johny_roberts]

Graphic Design pays shit, it's fun but pays shit...... I do not do it but my mates do and thats what they say.

[Canalien]

Yeah I don't really care about making megabucks right now... well, I mean, I do, but right now I need to do something I actually LIKE doing.

[Afro88]

Graphic Design pays shit, it's fun but pays shit...... I do not do it but my mates do and thats what they say.

I know this guy that started off in graphic design, worked his way up to 3d modelling of real and future environments and is now head of his division and owns an 05 BMW M3... Oh, and he's only 20 :aah:

[Canalien]

DAMN. I'm already 21.

So really, more to the point, I've already got a degree, but it's nothing to do with computers. Is this something that I can get into without getting a degree in, ie, are there other methods of training (TAFE?) that are of a high standard?

[DCenT3]

Lend out cardboard boxes to homless people then charge them rent. U can rack a good $5 or $6 a week. Enough For 2 cheap beers.

[Canalien]

err yeah..

[throb]

Lend out cardboard boxes to homless people then charge them rent. U can rack a good $5 or $6 a week. Enough For 2 cheap beers.
http://forums.zgeek.com/gallery/data/media/1/molest_box.gif

[Reprobate]

Right, so I'm at a very frustrating point where I need to find myself an entirely new career direction... Anyway, what's frustrating is there's not a lot I find myself drawn towards. One of the ideas I thought of was Graphic Design... it sounds like the kind of job I'd enjoy and could be good at. Does anyone here work in the industry? Or does anyone here have any advice on changing direction in general?
What are your artists abilities like?

And what is your attitude towards 'art'?

up until recently I worked as a Graphic Designer for an engineering firm, and it's not the sort of job that's common.

It involved me doing artwork/illustrations for process systems. Whether it be mining, electrical, water, whatever.

The creative side to it involved coming up with artwork that was simple yet defining. More often than not I had to dumb down the look of an object so it became more generic looking. The other guy doing the same job got a little touchy about being told to do this less or change this to something simple.

So attitude comes into it a lot. If you're artsy fartsy then sometimes design isn't for you. Whether it be in the field I was in or working for an agency.

You go all out to do the best job and then you either get art direction or have to comply with what the client wants. That's sometimes the hardest bit. At least for some.

I spent 40 hours drawing an electric motor. Mind you, if you saw it, you'd wonder why I took so long. It was the most simple thing you've ever seen. But it needed to work whether it was really really small on a page or was zoomed in to fill 25% of the screen. The only comparison I can give is icons and smilies. You don't have much to work with.

Add the extra twist of it being in vector and having it still look good when zoomed.

But anyway, Graphic Design can be fun. When work was slow I'd be called on to design fliers and posters (some 2 metres high), CD covers and trade magazine ads. that too is a challenge.

Everyone has their own idea of what it should look like, and then you have to interpret what they want.

I'd then go away and do a rough draft of a few ideas and come back. And usually they'd want a bit of this with that. Sometimes it doesn't work. I know it doesn't work but they don't know it (they're engineers for crying out loud, they admit they have zero creativity). So then you have to explain WHY that idea won't work.

So what's your negoitiation skills like? Sometimes you have to present an 'argument' as to why what they propose is a complete crock of shit, but do it in the most diplomatic way possible.

During the course of my gainful employment I learnt a thing or two about manipulation ;) I'd put words in their mouth or reinforce any doubts they had and steer them towards what I knew what was best, while still making them feel like they knew what they needed and that they were going to get what they wanted.

I can't talk about working for an advertising agency or other avenue of graphic design employment, but it's not the easiest thing to get into. Rate of pay depends entirely on who you're working for and what it is you're doing. I've got between $20 to $80 an hour. Though as a full time employee and just breaking into the business expect the lower amount, no matter how artistically talented you think you are.

[Canalien]

cheers darkie...
i've been artistically inclined my whole life (i was into drawing and reading instead of sports as a kid). I haven't done very much visual art in the last 7 years or so, but i did stick with the artistic side of things and studied Theatre at university (got me a theatre degree.. ooh ahh... toilet paper). I'm basically looking at different options and trying to find something that interests me at least, because the theatre life just isn't for me, nor is continuing with my current job. I considered Graphic Design because it sounds like my kind of work; creative, indoors, computer based. It's the kind of thing that would take training though, because as I said, I haven't dabbled in my visual art for a long time, so that's why I'm asking.

As I said, I'm not looking to get rich quick or anything; I'm looking to get into an industry and career that I can really enjoy doing (and one that will at least support me, not necessarily make me a filthy rich king).

So what sort of things should I be looking into?

EDIT: Surreal moment when I realized I'm asking for career advice from the guy who makes those ascii drawings my friends and I used to marvel at in high school. Not that it's a bad thing.

[Lina]

I think you'll find that whilst a designer uses art skills it is DEFINITELY not fine art. You have to have a natural eye for balance and colour but you also need to be very organised, have exceptional people skills, be able to take critisism really well and be somewhat mathematically inclined! It's bloody hard work.

I'm a designer and I'm almost half-way through a post-grad in graphic design because I cannot get a job in a studio until I have a degree.

I find that you make more money if you 'sell out' and work as an 'inhouse' designer/production at some big corporate. Which is, of course, what I have done. It's ace 'cause they pay for my postgrad and I still get to apply my skills. And I learnt a HELL of a lot more about pre-press in a shorter period of time than I would have. After I finish my postgrad I'm going to apply for a junior/mid-weight design position in a studio. My dream...don't care if I don't get much money at first!

I don't know if there was a moral to that story. Um...learn about production, pre-press and typography before anything else. These are the absolute building blocks onto which a great designer is born :)

[Lina]

During the course of my gainful employment I learnt a thing or two about manipulation ;) I'd put words in their mouth or reinforce any doubts they had and steer them towards what I knew what was best, while still making them feel like they knew what they needed and that they were going to get what they wanted.

Amen brother. A brilliant designer once told me that design is 10% skill and 90% bullshit. Whilst the percentages are clearly not entirely true I believe that talking something up and putting on your 'im-the-designer-and-I-know-best' hat works a bloody charm :D

[Reprobate]

cheers darkie...
i've been artistically inclined my whole life (i was into drawing and reading instead of sports as a kid). I haven't done very much visual art in the last 7 years or so, but i did stick with the artistic side of things and studied Theatre at university (got me a theatre degree.. ooh ahh... toilet paper). I'm basically looking at different options and trying to find something that interests me at least, because the theatre life just isn't for me, nor is continuing with my current job. I considered Graphic Design because it sounds like my kind of work; creative, indoors, computer based. It's the kind of thing that would take training though, because as I said, I haven't dabbled in my visual art for a long time, so that's why I'm asking.

As I said, I'm not looking to get rich quick or anything; I'm looking to get into an industry and career that I can really enjoy doing (and one that will at least support me, not necessarily make me a filthy rich king).

So what sort of things should I be looking into?

EDIT: Surreal moment when I realized I'm asking for career advice from the guy who makes those ascii drawings my friends and I used to marvel at in high school. Not that it's a bad thing.
cheers Canalie...

After reading your response I do believe you SHOULD get into Graphic Design.

And what Lina had to say is very good advice also. Though I'm not sure where the mathematical part comes into it.

You have to have a natural eye for balance and colour...

Composition is the key. Being able to arrange on paper, or on a screen, stuff, so it looks good.

I didn't get into Graphic Design via a university degree. But through pursuing it in part time in TAFE. A few courses here, a few courses there. Mind you, I was a Fitter Machinist while doing some of those course. I did tie it all up with a full time course in Digital Arts & Media. But mainly it was my talent and persistance and the right opportunity coming along that got it for me.

So I didn't get there the wrong way, just the long way. But if you want to go to university to get there, by all means do. Certainly many more have got their dream job by going that route then slogging it out the way I did.

It's important to have a good grasp of programs like Adobe Photoshop, Adobe InDesign... Quark if you're a Mac lad, Adobe Illustrator or Macromedia Freehand. Just to name a few.

If you're proficient with Photoshop, a Desktop Publishing package such as InDesign or Quark and either of the two illustration programs from Adobe or Macromedia, then you're on your way to putting up your hand and saying 'i wanna be a graphic designer!'.

The next step is to get together a body of work. A portfolio.

Because you're going to need this to even get a look in when you're applying for... university. Let alone a job.

Um...learn about production, pre-press and typography before anything else.

Ten years before I even got my job in Graphic Design I went and done a course in Graphic Reproduction. Now that sort of thing is a historical footnote because of scanners. My job didn't rely on pre-press. Given the type of work I was doing. For me it was an advantage that I had also been getting into web design.

Typography though... learn all you can about it. Borrow books, study it. Typography is a beautiful thing.

I'm not sure what your next step should be, but if you know of anyone working in the industry, especially say a printers, and try and get in on the ground level and learn all you can.

[Lina]

And what Lina had to say is very good advice also. Though I'm not sure where the mathematical part comes into it.


...working out a grid based on the golden section or on leading, ensuring baselines work out, image ratios...a grasp of mathematics helps immensely :)

[Canalien]

Yay the Golden Ratio! I did really horribly at mathematics in school but I love that Golden Ratio. Saw a documentary on how beauty (and things generally appealing to the human eye) can generally be defined mathematically with the Golden Ratio. They built a mock up of an almost mathematically perfect human face. Needless to say she was pretty good looking.

Anyway, I've inquired about a traineeship being offered in Print Design, though I got an automated response from the email saying 'thankyou for your application', so I'm still waiting on a human message. The ad said 'junior', but I'm 21 so I'm not sure if I'm eligible.

[VangaloRR]

Anyway, I've inquired about a traineeship being offered in Print Design, though I got an automated response from the email saying 'thankyou for your application', so I'm still waiting on a human message. The ad said 'junior', but I'm 21 so I'm not sure if I'm eligible.

Being 21 wont be a problem, most people applying for this type of position will be fresh out of uni or tafe and will be about 20 or 21 anyway

[Lina]

Yay the Golden Ratio! I did really horribly at mathematics in school but I love that Golden Ratio. Saw a documentary on how beauty (and things generally appealing to the human eye) can generally be defined mathematically with the Golden Ratio. They built a mock up of an almost mathematically perfect human face. Needless to say she was pretty good looking.

Anyway, I've inquired about a traineeship being offered in Print Design, though I got an automated response from the email saying 'thankyou for your application', so I'm still waiting on a human message. The ad said 'junior', but I'm 21 so I'm not sure if I'm eligible.


Mmm..yes, the golden section/ratio/mean is rather funky. I only discovered it recently and I've been experimenting a lot :)

Good work on the job application - if it doesn't work out keep trying! It's my personal opinion that it's much better, in this industry at least, to actually do some work in the area before going to do uni or whatever. Then you'll have a greater understanding of what's involved and can make a more informative decision. Good luck!

[Canalien]

Dammit! Didn't work! I'm over qualified! Stupid uni degree.