Law Degree

[Mighty Midget]

Hi all,
I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right area, but I am thinking about doing a law degree part time. I was hoping those who had gone before me could give me an idea of the amount of commitment required, what degrees they did (commercial law, general law) and through which universities and whether or not they thought it was worth doing in the end?

All advice greatly appreciated

[ShinymetalASS]

In Queensland it's a four year course full time (unless postgrad, then it's 3).

There are a range of set subjects you must study. Electives tend to only really be available at the end of the degree.

Mostly my electives focused on commerical/company law. Taxation isn'y compulsory, but provides invaluable insight into the context of other areas (trusts/succession/companies/etc).

The degree will not be what you expect, is likely to provide little practical information, but will provide you with a particular method of thinking and logic that should be applied to legal problems.

If you intend to practice, most of your crucial knowledge will be learned once you graduate and commence work in a firm.

Finally, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING YOU CRAZY FREAKING MIDGET???

[Mighty Midget]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ShinymetalASS again."

Thanks ShinymetalASS. There are some degrees available in Victoria for people who have finished degrees in other areas (mine being IT) over 6 years part time. In answer to your question, I am a masochist :D . I have always had an interest in law, but until now I have never really looked into it too heavily.

[Sagacious]

Hi all,
I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right area, but I am thinking about doing a law degree part time. I was hoping those who had gone before me could give me an idea of the amount of commitment required, what degrees they did (commercial law, general law) and through which universities and whether or not they thought it was worth doing in the end?

All advice greatly appreciated

As a lawyer withover 10 years post admission experience and having done Law the old fashioned way (being degree + 2 years of articles) all I can say is You have to be fucking crazy to contemplate something as dry and boring as the study of law UNLESS you ultimately wish to practise law.

That said I can tell you that if you wish to practise law then you should try and do your law degree part time whilst working in the industry as it will assist you in making sense of what youa re being taught in a practical sense. Also try to resist the temptation of doing the post grad Juris Doctor which will allow you to become admitted but is not recognised as a valid law degree among many in the industry and will cause you problems when it comes to trying to get a job.

If you don't intend to practice law for fucks sake save yourself the agony and interminable boredom of studying law and do something like justice studies and business instead.

My $0.02 for any further advice I will require you to sign my standard retainer agreement.

That is all. Carry on.

[dwarfthrower]

Or you could get yourself incarcerated and study up in the prison library. "Jailhouse Lawyer" has a far more romantic ring to it.

[Girl.]

I graduated last year and I actually enjoyed studying law (although I didn't particularly enjoy the exams, most of which were 24 hour ones, blech) :) Both my parents are lawyers so I grew up having discussions about law around the dinner table and the like and I think that fostered an interest in it for me.

My advice is that you shouldn't study law unless you're really committed to it. I worked my ass off through Uni and got reasonably good marks which got me an excellent job, but 6 months after graduation, literally half my class are still unemployed. I have friends who have credit averages who can't find jobs - anywhere. There seems to be a bit of a myth that once you have a law degree you're instantly employable, but thats not the case, at least where I live (Newcastle/Sydney), so if you're going to study law and you want to be a lawyer when you're finished, you have to work damn hard for it.

Expect LOTS of reading - first year subjects are really dry and boring but things pick up after that. Also, try to get as much practical experience as you can while you're studying - I worked for 2 different firms for a few months each and a community legal centre for a year before I'd finished and that seemed to be what impressed my future employers the most.

This has been a bit of a rushed post but if there's anything else you'd like to know feel free to PM me :)

[Xythan]

Great, just what the worlds needs...more lawyers...

EDIT - Sorry, I know this is serious posting, but I am serious...

I agree, unless you WANT to do law, don't man...find a field that interests you, likely really interests you, if that really is law, please, do well and be a decent human being about it...

[Mighty Midget]

Thanks guys, Rep on the way for you all.

[ShinymetalASS]

Great, just what the worlds needs...more lawyers...

EDIT - Sorry, I know this is serious posting, but I am serious...

I agree, unless you WANT to do law, don't man...find a field that interests you, likely really interests you, if that really is law, please, do well and be a decent human being about it...

We are actually mostly really decent human beings thankyoukindlyforyouropinion.

[ShinymetalASS]

There seems to be a bit of a myth that once you have a law degree you're instantly employable, but thats not the case, at least where I live (Newcastle/Sydney), so if you're going to study law and you want to be a lawyer when you're finished, you have to work damn hard for it.

Don't expect to earn much either.

[Mighty Midget]

Don't expect to earn much either.
What you mean I won't start on 60k + per year. Well that's just crap! !;)

[Sagacious]

We are actually mostly really decent human beings thankyoukindlyforyouropinion.
except for me I am a http://forum.zgeek.com/images/icons/icon521.gif and good at it.

[Sashasword]

If you really hate youself, you might want to think about familiarizing yourself with a smattering of family law. That always seems to be popular.
Wouldn't wish it on anyone though, my bf hates it with a passion. He did a lot of it in his very first lawyering job, and the stories he came home with were horrendous.
And there was nothing he could do. It got really depressing.

Having said that, by all means go and study law. It's a nice respecable job (if you can get it), and it never fails to impress loan people and banks and suchlike.

Hope you weren't too attached to your soul. You will have to part with it before you get your diploma.
The master always needs more souls....:FIREdevil

[slaine1]

Hi Midget,

Here's some specific information as a current law student in Melbourne Uni's Juris Doctor programme. Obviously, the relevancy of the job info is limited to Victoria. I also come from an IT background. I'm also headed for articles with a top tier firm next year.

First, I agree with the general comments about the difficulty with getting a job in a law firm. I also agree that the work involved in getting a law degree is such that it's not worth it to do it and not get a job in law. All your efforts should therefore be concentrated in getting that first law job.

In Victoria, I have been told that massively more people apply for articles of clerkship than there are vacancies. Typically, for any of the big firms (Mallesons, Freehills, etc) there will be about 400-700 applicants vying for anywhere from 1 - 50 vacancies. (Last year, I believe the largest employers were Mallesons, who made offers for about 50 people in the Melbourne office, and approx 80 people for the Sydney office).

Second, MOST of the big firms do recruitment a year in advance. So applicants graduating in 2007 will have to make applications by end 2005/early 2006. The practical consequence of this is that grades don't matter once an offer is made. All you need to do, if you get an offer, is to slack off and merely pass the final year.

Third, what's the best way of getting an offer? Doing a vacation clerkship is probably the best way. Victorian firms have recently transitioned to what is called the "priority offer system". All it means is that they are allowed to give priority to, and make early offers to, people who participated in a vacation clerkship program. I believe the rationale for this is that the best "interview" they can give a person is actually have them work at the firm for a couple of weeks or months. Why is getting a clerkship easier than waiting until the end and applying? There are basically two reasons for this. The first is because you will apply for clerkships at any available opportunity, and you will therefore have multiple bites at the cherry to practice for interviews and polish your resume (whereas when applying for articles, you only have one chance); and second, because you will understand that you need to have really good results early in your course, as well as having excellent extra-curricular activities (like being involved in sports, law societies, law reviews, clubs, volunteer work, whatever, take your pick). I repeat: getting good grades in your final year is irrelevant.

On the topic of getting jobs and clerkship offers. There's basically two ways to do it: (i) by networking and social engineering; and (ii) by getting really, really good grades. Either path might be better for you depending on your personal proclivities. For example, I know people with the crappiest grades who got into vacation clerkship programmes with Clayton Utz, and hence offers for articles, simply through social engineering. One guy knew a mate who was a partner in Clayton Utz. The other guy did it by spending all his time calling up partners in law firms and chatting with them and doing a huge amount of research on law firms and recruitment, etc.

If you want to get in through merit, concentrate all your efforts in getting good grades in the first couple of years (you will be aiming for at least a distinction or H2B average. The higher the better. For example, Arnold Bloch Leibler told me that the cutoff for this year's recruitment was 78% (that's a H2A average, for god's sake).

If you don't get a vacation clerkship, your next best bet if you get work at volunteer legal aid organisations. If you don't have excellent grades, you still have a limited chance at getting work at one of the top tier firms if you have good commercial experience.

The good news is that the information above really applies to getting articles at a top tier firm. The bad news is that they are the only ones who can afford large scale articles recruitment.

Your options if you have average grades are: go for small-mid tier firms, but you will be faced with the same odds or worse odds, because although the calibre of applicants will be lower in general, your grades will be equally bad. One of my classmates applied for a small firm offering 1 (ONE!) articles position, and there were about 400 applicants. In this situation, ANYTHING that will distinguish you from the run of mill applicant is helpful. This is where any legal related job/volunteer etc is absolutely crucial. Also, social engineering and networking is really effective in this context. If you have a friend who is clerking or has a research job in a small to mid sized firm, do not hesitate to use those contacts and let it be known that you are in the market for a part-time research job, or a clerkship position. Also, COLD CALLING small or mid tier firms is CRUCIAL.

The final option: there is extreme shortages of qualified lawyers in the country, so if you go out into the woop woop, you are almost guaranteed to get a job. But they usually won't take you on without a practicing certificate, so you'll have to splurge on the PLT usually. Or so I've been told. Thankfully, it didn't get to that stage for me.

Finally on the matter of pay. The latest Hayes salary survey show annual salaries of between 45 to 55k including super for the last salary survey. Obviously, it'll go up a little bit for 2007. Compare this to about $37k for starting accountants in public accounting firms (I know that's what a friend of mine was offered at Ernst & Young).

Note also that some private firms offer comparable graduate salaries to graduate recruits. For example, Masterfoods offered another friend $51k excluding super for a graduate management trainee position. It goes to show that paywise, there's not a lot of benefit for law graduates in relation to the amount of work you have to put in. Why not go for a soft degree like management and take a shot at some cushy well-paid jobs at places like Masterfoods (plus, I imagine you will have free access to unlimited amounts of Mars Bars and Snickers!)

A word about Sagacious' advice re: not doing the JD from someone with personal experience, and who got a job with a top tier firm.



That said I can tell you that if you wish to practise law then you should try and do your law degree part time whilst working in the industry as it will assist you in making sense of what youa re being taught in a practical sense. Also try to resist the temptation of doing the post grad Juris Doctor which will allow you to become admitted but is not recognised as a valid law degree among many in the industry and will cause you problems when it comes to trying to get a job.


I agree and disagree in part. The JD programme _is_ new and _is_ less well recognised, but I don't think tthat this is an insurmountable problem. What it really means is that you have to work harder at getting a job. Either through social engineering or through getting good grades. In fact, most of the top tier law firms in Victoria (BDW, Clayton Utz, Minter Ellison, and some others I cannot remember) have summer clerkships exclusively for the JD programme. So you're effectively only competing against JD students from Monash and Melbourne. The bad news is that most JD students are highly motivated, so you are really going to have to work hard at either social engineering or study in order to have a shot.

To give you some idea as to employment prospects, the cohort senior to mine had HUGE problems getting jobs. My cohort in comparison had almost no problems getting jobs. Everyone who wanted a job got a job. The vast majority with top tier law firms. Your mileage may vary.

Which JD? Melbourne or Monash? Monash has some advantages. They do their teaching in chambers in the city. They do an integrated JD/LLM(Legal Practice), which includes a practical component where you can work in a legal practice. Melbourne's JD does not. BUT, you get to finish the Melbourne JD in 2 years flat (3 full teaching terms of 14 weeks each every year, so you better be prepared not to have any rest for a good long while, coz you're doing 3 years study in 2 years). The bad thing about Melbourne's JD is that you only really get 1 shot at a summer clerkship, so there's little margin for error, and you really better do well in the first year to buff your grades.

A quick word about the universities. Melbourne has the tradition, and Monash is the up and comer. Melbourne is also INCREDIBLY SNOOTY, and alot of the kids there are really spoilt-brat mummy's boys -- this is not necessarily a bad thing -- think of the networking opportunities! :D Both are considered top class unis as far as the recruiters are concerned. Deakin and La Trobe less so. But Deakin and La Trobe have their strengths too. I think Deakin's competitive advantage is the emphasis on practical aspects, so you will be less likely to be absolutely bewildered by the practicalies of the practice, rather than study, of law. Deakin's emphasis has led to the comment by my lecturers that Deakin churns out a good number of solid (but 'boring') 'conveyancing' type lawyers. But hey, that's probably just snooty bias and more power to you if you want that sort of course.

Hope this helps. If you require any more information, feel free to PM me.

[ShinymetalASS]

It's a nice respecable job (if you can get it), and it never fails to impress loan people and banks and suchlikel


What fantasyland are you living in? If it's such a respectable job, where's the fricken respect? :clap:

[Sagacious]

What fantasyland are you living in? If it's such a respectable job, where's the fricken respect? :clap:
The only respect you get in the job is the variety you go our and carve out by force of results and in the way you approach and deal with people.

Sashasword's Boyfriend and I had a particularly visciously contested matter with eachother on opposing sides for a variety of defendants many years ago both sets of which were intent on adopting cut-throat defences.

Sashasword's boyf's clients hated mine and mine hated his but we dealt with eachother with integrity and respect even though we were sending viscious letters to eachother outlining how our clients' instructions were to eviscerate eachother before the court. :FIREdevil

TO this day Sashaswords boyf and I remain friends and have a great mutual respect for eachother.

[Girl.]

The practical consequence of this is that grades don't matter once an offer is made. All you need to do, if you get an offer, is to slack off and merely pass the final year.

I really don't agree with this. I got my job by doing a summer clerkship for the Sydney office of a top tier firm and we were told that once we had clerkships we had an extremely good chance of getting an offer for a graduate job, but it depended on several things, including performance during the clerkship and our grades for the final year. We got job offers about 3 weeks after the clerkship concluded (which was during the first few weeks of our final year of law) and they specifically said that they were conditional upon keeping up our grades in our final year. One of my good friends was working for another top tier firm and we both agreed that we felt like we had heaps of pressure to keep working our asses off - we definitely weren't allowed to slack off. Far from it, actually.

The final option: there is extreme shortages of qualified lawyers in the country, so if you go out into the woop woop, you are almost guaranteed to get a job. But they usually won't take you on without a practicing certificate, so you'll have to splurge on the PLT usually. Or so I've been told. Thankfully, it didn't get to that stage for me.

I don't really agree with this one either. My dad has his own practice in a small town and to be honest, many of the practices are dying out thanks to conveyancing no longer being exclusively done by lawyers.. there definitely isn't much work around here and he's had to go into other areas of law which his firm traditionally hasn't done to get more business in (although having said that, other rural areas might be different). Also, the last few times he's hired lawyers, he's had heaps of candidates, and the ones he's hired have mostly had distinction averages at Uni. There seems to be a glut of law graduates who think that if they have crappy marks they can move away from the city and get jobs and it just isn't the case.

[Arsozah]

My advice is that you shouldn't study law unless you're really committed to it. I worked my ass off through Uni and got reasonably good marks which got me an excellent job, but 6 months after graduation, literally half my class are still unemployed. I have friends who have credit averages who can't find jobs - anywhere. There seems to be a bit of a myth that once you have a law degree you're instantly employable, but thats not the case, at least where I live (Newcastle/Sydney), so if you're going to study law and you want to be a lawyer when you're finished, you have to work damn hard for it.


I know this has been said time and time again, but do yourself a favour and get some practical experience as soon as you can - without it, your degree is worth so much less. It's ridiculous to think that you can get your degree without ever having seen the law in practice, but you can and there are people that have (myself being one of them). Despite working your rear off and getting good grades, you still become one of just many prospective candidates, and merely having great results won't always be the edge you need to get a job in practice. Sometimes not even cold calling twenty mid-teir firms every week for months and sending out countless resumes can get you an interview. And it gets even worse when you think you become less and less employable the longer you are out of uni. (Just a tip, if you do decide to do the desperation route as I did, and feel like throwing all concept of dignity and standards to the wind - I found doing a yellow pages online search for lawyers in the area extremely helpful - just go on down the list)

To put a disillusioned light on things, law was my passion for more years than I can think of, and there is nothing more I would want than to be able to practice as a taxation lawyer but now I'm seriously considering just going back to uni and becoming a damn accountant.

[slaine1]

I really don't agree with this. I got my job by doing a summer clerkship for the Sydney office of a top tier firm and we were told that once we had clerkships we had an extremely good chance of getting an offer for a graduate job, but it depended on several things, including performance during the clerkship and our grades for the final year. We got job offers about 3 weeks after the clerkship concluded (which was during the first few weeks of our final year of law) and they specifically said that they were conditional upon keeping up our grades in our final year. One of my good friends was working for another top tier firm and we both agreed that we felt like we had heaps of pressure to keep working our asses off - we definitely weren't allowed to slack off. Far from it, actually.

Hi Girl, you must remember that this is from my experience in Melbourne, and myself and the people who got into top tier law firms were told that they didn't give a rat's ass about what grades we got in the final year. We specifically asked, because it was understandably important to us!

It could be a Melbourne thing ... But then again, I'm doing the JD, and I think it could be that JDs are all special cases. These firms are employing us as much for our skills and experience outside of law as for our grades.


I don't really agree with this one either. My dad has his own practice in a small town and to be honest, many of the practices are dying out thanks to conveyancing no longer being exclusively done by lawyers.. there definitely isn't much work around here and he's had to go into other areas of law which his firm traditionally hasn't done to get more business in (although having said that, other rural areas might be different). Also, the last few times he's hired lawyers, he's had heaps of candidates, and the ones he's hired have mostly had distinction averages at Uni. There seems to be a glut of law graduates who think that if they have crappy marks they can move away from the city and get jobs and it just isn't the case.


Hmm, this again may be different in rural Victoria. I have yet another friend in the LLB program who hadn't even finished her PLT, and she was being headhunted by a number of firms in country Vic. One place even offered her a free golf membership and the option to buy out the partner after a couple of years because he wanted to retire ... So, one isn't a representative number, but I've been told by other people that there's heaps of jobs in the country for qualified lawyers.

[slaine1]

Despite working your rear off and getting good grades, you still become one of just many prospective candidates, and merely having great results won't always be the edge you need to get a job in practice. Sometimes not even cold calling twenty mid-teir firms every week for months and sending out countless resumes can get you an interview. And it gets even worse when you think you become less and less employable the longer you are out of uni. (Just a tip, if you do decide to do the desperation route as I did, and feel like throwing all concept of dignity and standards to the wind - I found doing a yellow pages online search for lawyers in the area extremely helpful - just go on down the list)

Arsozah, I feel your pain. It was literally terrifying for me, considering that I had probably the highest marks in the whole fricking class, and I was being repeatedly passed on for interviews at many of the top tier firms in favour of people who had done summer clerkships with them. I ended up with 4 interviews. Three of them with firms that only needed us only in case one of their offerees rejected them. I was told by a particular top tier firm that they were only looking for 1 position after the priority offers we taken up, and I was number 2 on the list of people they considered. So I literally missed out on 1 job position by 1 person! I literally almost fainted when I was finally made an offer by literally my last chance to get a job.

I felt really cheated because we were never told how critically important these clerkships are. In fact, nobody knew because most of Melbourne firms had spontaenously decided to fill their vacancies first and only use the normal articles application process to fill in any leftover requirements. After making some discreet inquiries, I was told by a firm that recruited about 15 clerks that they filled something like 13 positions from their summer clerks, leaving 2 positions for the other applicants fight it out.


To put a disillusioned light on things, law was my passion for more years than I can think of, and there is nothing more I would want than to be able to practice as a taxation lawyer but now I'm seriously considering just going back to uni and becoming a damn accountant.

Don't give up yet. Do whatever the fuck it takes to get a clerkship or any other form of legal experience, and you still have a shot. One of my predecessors got a chance to do a vacation clerkship about a year after she graduated, and they ended up offering her articles. Pull in any favours you have from anybody you know working in law firms (friends, relatives, acquaintances, friends of family) to get a referral for any casual or part time legal research positions. I did part time research work for a mid tier firm, and they way they way they recruit is usually through internal referrals. Someone works at that firm, and when they leave or become ACs they recommend a friend to take over the position. That's how it goes. You gotta play the social networking game because that's how most of the jobs are obtained!

[Jimma]

For the finding a job thing, it can be ridiculously hard. There are just too many people with the qualifications. Finding somewhere to do articles especially.

As for the actual study of Law I had my Contracts tutor tell me that all you learn is how to be fair yet selfish. Sounds about right. The degree doesn't really leave you with any very technical knowledge, more a way of thinking.

To minimise the hard work getting a job at the end of your degree (if you want one) then make friends with the right people now. It's possible some people you already know will be very helpful when the time comes. For example I had a friend whose sister was a senior partner at Phillips Fox, he brought it up once in conversation - which was simply splendid as the more friends you have in high places the easier it is to get yourself in high places. If your dad plays golf somewhere exclusive, or your auntie is married to a lawyer, or many moons ago you had an ancestor who was a big shot solicitor then you might already have some places to network.

[Sagacious]

...we were never told how critically important these clerkships are.

I cannot overstate the importance of practical work experience when applying for 'legal' as opposed to 'paralegal' jobs. My business is a small firm and I won't entertain applications from people for solicitor or trainee solicitors positions (articled or managing clerks) who haven't had some practical work experience.

The reason for this more than anything else is that prctical work experience starts the unlearning process of some of the essoteric bullshit that is force fed to poor law students.

[Mighty Midget]

Hi guys, thanks again for all the feedback, sorry I have taken so long to check the thread again but life's been a little crazy. Rep on its way to you all

[disko]

Hey there,

can anyone give me some more info about the JD? I am about to embark on law studies also, as a career change (hopefully). I have got into the LLB but am interested in the JD - any positives/negatives for either degree?

Any info much appreciated!

[Sagacious]

Many of the middle and top tier firms will not recognise a JD as a legitimate law degree and will not employ JD grads until after they have at least 3 years post admission experience.

I employ a JD grad and for the first 2 years he has been close to useless. I will not employ another.

[disko]

Really? Why is that? What do you make of Melbourne only offering the JD as a law qualification after 2008 then?

[Sagacious]

Really? Why is that? What do you make of Melbourne only offering the JD as a law qualification after 2008 then?

Because (as was explained to me when I asked why the LLB was a 4 year degree) you cannot be taught to reason like a lawyer in 12 or 24 months. Even after you have done an LLB you still need to do Practical Legal Training (in lieu of articles of clerkship) to round out your skill set as a lawyer.

JD just does not provide the same quality of graduates that LLB does and accordingly the top and middle tier firms I have mentioned don't recognise it. Sure it will get you admitted but it will prove more difficult to get a job in the industry with one.

The same firms (in Queensland) did not and would not recognise the Grad Dip in Legal Practice as an alternative to articles and would not employ Grad Dip LP grads untill they had at least 12 months post admission experience.

Same goes for the QUeensland Law Society and Grad Dip LP grads. They'll admit you but only conditionally on the basis that you are then unconditionally admitted once you have had 48/52 weeks employment in a law firm following your admission.

I think it is a mistake for Melb Uni to only offer JD after 2008 as it will diminish the standing of their faculty of law nationwide. my $0.02.

[disko]

Thanks for your info sagacious, it's an interesting opinion and one to consider, for sure. What do you think though of doing the JD and then articles of clerkship? Surely that would provide solid legal training? In my case, the LLb would only take 3 years anyway as I already have a degree, as compared with the JD of two and a half...

[Sagacious]

It's all about getting that foot in the door and landing that first job. a JD is likely to be less well received than an LLB so from that perspective make it more difficult. Once you are in the industry then it is really quite academic how it is you got there. the only thing people (employers) really care about is your track record and your ability to find and retain clients.

There was a guy up he in Brisbane years ago they called Mr 1% he made partner at a top tier law firm at age 28 or something like that. The reason they called him Mr 1% was that he knew 1% about the law and 99% about how to land and keep clients.

They made him a partner when his gross billings in a year exceeded $1M.

[disko]

thanks again for your feedback sagacious you have provided invaluable info.
Wonder if you can answer this: are there many (if any) firms you know of on the Gold Coast that deal in IP law? I know Minter Ellison is there but any others?

Also, is it as competitive in Bris as in Melbs to get seasonal clerkships/articles?

[Sagacious]

IP Law you're looking top tier and national firms such as Minters or patent attorneys.

[SmaSheD_CoW]

Also, is it as competitive in Bris as in Melbs to get seasonal clerkships/articles?

I'm from Bris, and yep it's fucking hard to get any type of clerkship here. But on the bright side, if you get a clerkship with any of the top tier firms, you're *almost* guaranteed a graduate position once your finish your degree - the firm I'm with at the moment hires 12 summer clerks a year, and last year 10 of their 12 graduate position went to those summer clerks.

If you don't think you can get a clerkship based on your results, get a job in the mailroom, get chummy with some partners/senior associates, and hope they hook you up with a position!

[disko]

thanks for your replies, really appreciate it. I wonder also if anyone can tell me if there are created clerkships for JD students in Bris/Gold Coast like there are in Melbourne, that have a duration of two weeks instead of the usual four+ weeks. I know Bond has a JD program so have any QLD firms responded with offering JD placements?

[SmaSheD_CoW]

Not that I know of - all the Brisbane firms I know of get LLB students for their clerkships. Most firms aren't interested in JD's because they feel that the LLB provides a higher quality of grad.

Your best bet is probably to give Bond a call and talk to their one of their academic advisers - they'll be able to give you a better idea about the opportunities available for JD students.

[ShinymetalASS]

I fell arse over backwards into my articles.

These days you can get admitted with supervised something or other with government jobs as well.

Have a read of the Practitioners requirements. Its easier than it used to be.

What I've found is that it ultimately comes down to the interview. My academic transcript is a schitzophrenic document at best. But I have gotten every job I have gone for. Thank goodness grades dont necessarily equate to social skills.

:)

[disko]

smashed-cow - Which firms are you talking about? How did you get this info that JD is not considered as good a degree? The firms I contacted in Melbourne seemed to consider it as a good course..

[raidan]

Hello forum, I would like to get some of your thoughts (esp. from people already in the legal industry) about the LPAB's Diploma-In-Law.

I've been doing some research and soliciting what opinions I can, and have heard equally that it is looked down upon by people who have come through with a traditional LLB, and also that it is held in some high regard by others due to the degree of difficulty involved in completing it.

What are your thoughts? Does anyone have practical experience of the quality of DipInLaw graduates?