Store not offering immediate refund

[4wd4wd]

Hi folks,

I bought a fridge on Saturday, only to find it was not working, so I returned it for a refund on Sunday.

The store offered a replacement unit, or a store credit, but only a refund after the unit had been sent to the manufacturer to determine if there was a fault. Which will take 2 to 3 weeks.

I have demanded my money back, but they refuse to even plug the unit in to see if it works or not. They said the problem was all in my mind until their manufacturer could verify there was a problem.

Does anyone know what my legal rights are in NSW? I have determined the unit was not fit for the purpose it was sold for, so by rights, I have every right to receive my money back.

If you want a full version of events, please see ExplorOz Forum (http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/View.asp?ForumQID=41217)

What are your thoughts?

[Mr Bigglesworth]

Afraid not. There is no law guaranteeing "refund for change of mind" purchases in NSW, and where a unit is faulty, and in your case, brand new, it is at the retailers discretion whether to replace, repair or refund the unit. In fact, they are offering you more than they have to already by allowing you to refund the unit if it is indeed faulty.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/shopping/refundsrepairs.html#When%20can%20consumers%20insis t%20on%20a%20refund? for further info.

[dwarfthrower]

They have to give you a refund if the fridge is faulty. But not if it was damaged after you took ownership of it. I think it's reasonable for them to asses it to see whether the fault is systemic or damage related. However 2 - 3 weeks seems a little excessive to make that judgement.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/shopping/refundsrepairs.html

When can consumers insist on a refund?

The goods a consumer purchases must be of merchantable quality. Goods and services supplied to consumers must also be reasonably fit for any particular purpose made known by the consumer to the supplier except where the consumer does not rely, or it is unreasonable for the consumer to rely, on the skill or judgment of the supplier.

Consumers may ask for a refund if the goods purchased:

* are so defective that they should not have been sold; eg. they don’t work, they break down or they develop a serious fault. If an article becomes defective after sale, one of the considerations for merchantable quality would be the price received by the supplier for the goods (eg. a $2 watch wouldn’t be expected to last as long as a $300 watch).
* they are not suitable for any particular purpose made known by the consumer to the supplier except in the circumstances noted above; or
* they do not match the sample or description provided.

Consumers and traders may negotiate other solutions such as a repair or replacement but under these circumstances a consumer has a legal right to cancel a contract (rescind) and receive a refund if there is a breach of that contract.

Where a dispute arises between a consumer and a trader, the Office of Fair Trading can negotiate with the parties to achieve an acceptable solution. However, Fair Trading is unable to direct the parties to a particular course of action. Only a court or tribunal is empowered to make a determination in such circumstances.

Remember: you cannot ask for a cash refund if you did not pay cash.

[4wd4wd]

That to me reads that if the unit does not work, I am entitled to a refund, replacement or repair, and that it is my choice.

The unit didn't work from the moment I got home, yet when I returned it, they refused to plug it in to determine wether it worked or not. Yet they immediately offered store credit, or a replacement unit.

Why wouldn't I be entitled to an immediate refund? It was easily determined that the unit was faulty, and not fit for it's intended purpose.

[Mr Bigglesworth]

The law is that if the retailer sold you an item that, in all fairness, should not have been sold because it was probably faulty to begin with, you have a right to a refund because of a breach of contract. However, in your case, if you purchased a brand new fridge, boxed up, and it was faulty from the word go, then the retailer has not acted in bad faith, and this rule would not apply.

Of course, I think the retailer should have plugged the unit in to test it, and its stupid that they didnt, but there may also be some OHS issue that forbids them from using faulty equipment without the proper test equipment and precautions (what about if the person testing the fridge got fried?).

If you dont mind me asking, why did you not take the replacement?

PS. I was a retail store manager for many years, thankfully I got out. However, in my time, we went through quite a Fair Trading complaints by customers, and all of them were dismissed at the hearings in favour of the retailer. Unfortunately, stupid current affairs shows create the wrong impression of a customers rights and responsibilities.

[skozombie]

To play devil's advocate here...

If it doesn't work, they may not be allowed to plug it in to verify the fault for safety reasons. Their safety policies might state that as they are not qualified electrical engineers/ electricians , they can't be expected to setup a test returns in a safe manner, and thus sending it back to the manufacturer is the only way they can work out if it is indeed broken/faulty or if it was the customer saying it was broken to try to get a refund. I know (or rather assume) you weren't hurt by the fault, but that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't be.

So, they DID offer you a refund, but it's just a pain in the arse that they have to send it back to determine if there is indeed a fault. This may be the only way they can safely assess if there is a fault, or if it's just you changing your mind, which is not covered by your statutory rights of return.

Annoying none the less ...

[4wd4wd]

Would you take a replacement if they went on like this?

I went in asking what my options were, fully prepared to swap it, but they immediately said they would swap it, or give store credit, but no refund until it had gone back to the manufacturer. I thought that was a bit odd, so I stuck to my guns, and wanted my money back. They then pointed to the receipt in my hand that stated no refunds.

The fridges were not sold in the box - the sign said they were from a water-damaged palet, and were $200 off the regular price. Being a fridge, I didn't really see what a bit of water would do. Obviously a bit of water has fried the electrics, hence another reason I don't want another one.

Also, the fridge looked slightly used upon closer inspection - there were cut marks in the cuttingboard on top, for example. I would guess they are factory returns being sold as water damaged stock.

I am more annoyed at their attitude than anything else. One manager told me thismorning the problem was "in my mind" until the manufacturer verified the problem.

And if they are not allowed to plug it in, why are they allowed to sell it? I mean, if it is too dangerous for them to check wether it works or not, what about the bloody customer.

It will all work out in the end, I am sure - the fridge didn't work, and the manufacturer will verify it, and I'll get my money back. I just hate being told a problem is all in my mind, and their store policy forbids refunding money immediately.

PS. I was a retail store manager for many years, thankfully I got out. However, in my time, we went through quite a Fair Trading complaints by customers, and all of them were dismissed at the hearings in favour of the retailer. Unfortunately, stupid current affairs shows create the wrong impression of a customers rights and responsibilities.

I have been to the Department of Fair Trading only once, and that was with a faulty computer. I won the cost of the computer back from the retailer, but then again they didn't even bother turning up to the meeting.

Cheers,

Chris

[dwarfthrower]

The fridges were not sold in the box - the sign said they were from a water-damaged palet, and were $200 off the regular price. Being a fridge, I didn't really see what a bit of water would do. Obviously a bit of water has fried the electrics, hence another reason I don't want another one.

Also, the fridge looked slightly used upon closer inspection - there were cut marks in the cuttingboard on top, for example. I would guess they are factory returns being sold as water damaged stock.

Looks like you might be up shit creek then:
When are consumers not entitled to a refund?

Consumers are not entitled to a refund when they:

* change their mind about a product. This includes when a consumer has found a cheaper product elsewhere, has bought a gift that is unsuitable, or their circumstances have changed and they no longer require the goods;
* knew, or should have known about a fault when the goods were bought, for example as seconds. However, if a second has a fault that the consumer was not aware of, or could not have discovered upon a reasonable inspection when the item was bought, their rights are not affected;
* are unable to prove from whom and when the item was purchased. However, traders should not refuse a refund solely because there is no receipt, if they are satisfied that the goods were purchased from their store;
* are responsible for damaging the goods by not following the instructions, or misusing the product.

Probably should have got them to plug it in for you and proved it worked prior to purchase if that's the case.

[4wd4wd]

Ummm, how am I up shit creek. It didn't state they were seconds, merely water damaged stock. I am guessing they are returned units, just because there are some dents and cuts on the cutting board.

It would be a reasonable assumption that the fridge worked when I bought it, and if it didn't work, then I would be entitled to my money back. Your quote above actually supports that.

Also, these fridges are 3 way - they work on 240v, 12v and gas. It would not be reasonable to check all three prior to purchase.

Look, I could understand if it was a couple of months old, and I had used it a few times. But I got it home, it didn't work, so I returned it. And, as a consumer, I have the right to expect my money back on a faulty item.

[Mr Bigglesworth]

Would you take a replacement if they went on like this?

It depends.

I went in asking what my options were, fully prepared to swap it, but they immediately said they would swap it, or give store credit, but no refund until it had gone back to the manufacturer. I thought that was a bit odd, so I stuck to my guns, and wanted my money back. They then pointed to the receipt in my hand that stated no refunds.

At this point, they acted within their rights, and as stated before, exceeded them.

The fridges were not sold in the box - the sign said they were from a water-damaged palet, and were $200 off the regular price. Being a fridge, I didn't really see what a bit of water would do. Obviously a bit of water has fried the electrics, hence another reason I don't want another one.

Also, the fridge looked slightly used upon closer inspection - there were cut marks in the cuttingboard on top, for example. I would guess they are factory returns being sold as water damaged stock.

This is where you have rights and Fair Trading would probably rule in your favour. There is nothing that prohibits a retailer from selling water-damaged stock, however, they should have taken reasonable steps to ensure the stock was not faulty and that they clearly advertised the fact that it was water damaged. While it seems they advertised the fact that it was faulty, it seems they did nothing with respect to testing the stock. You would be in the right here.

Also, if the unit is second-hand, by NSW law they require a licence to sell used equipment, and it must be displayed prominently in the store. If they are selling used equipment as new, they will get into hot water because of this.

I am more annoyed at their attitude than anything else. One manager told me thismorning the problem was "in my mind" until the manufacturer verified the problem.

That sort of response is petty and unprofessional, especially from a manager. Then again, I had an ex-manager at the place I used to work at who once told a customer to "fuck off". That was fun to deal with. I would ask to speak to the proprietor of the store or the head office of the retailer you are dealing with.

And if they are not allowed to plug it in, why are they allowed to sell it? I mean, if it is too dangerous for them to check wether it works or not, what about the bloody customer.

That makes sense. This is once again, a point you can take to a Fair Trading hearing.

[dwarfthrower]

And, as a consumer, I have the right to expect my money back on a faulty item.

Unfortunately not in the case where there is a reasonable expectation that the product could be faulty at the time of purchase. Hence the whole "damaged" part of the "water damaged" bit. If I was preparing to purchase something that was clearly labelled "damaged" I'd check that it worked before taking possession of it. That you failed to do so would fall squarely under 'caveat emptor' unless you were given some sort of guarantee that the fridge was in working order.

[Kez]

If you were willing to buy the fridge in the first place, why didn't you just opt for another unit instead of "sticking to your guns"?

To me it's pretty silly, as they offered a compromise to the situation. Sure you're sticking up for your rights and I whole-heartedly respect that, but shit, you went out with the intention of buying a fridge (Unless it was otherwise and you thought "ooo cheap fridge... *yoink*"), why don't you just get the end product?

Unless you're going through buyers remorse, where ultimately you realised you don't want the product and want your money back, get the other unit and be over with the scenario :).

[still life]

Nothing changes minds like publicity. Write to your local paper.

[Sashasword]

I think it interesting that you said that they gave you another one, and not the one you pointed to, which is usually how it works; "I'd like to buy this one here, thanks".
To give you another one you hadn't had the oppourtunity to personally look over sounds extremely dodgy to me, and that along with the rest of the scenario tells me that they have done the wrong thing quite a few times in the way they are selling these fridges.

I too, would have thought that it's hard to go wrong with a second-hand fridge (no moving parts), but I just think you got unlucky on this one - and probably acted unwisely with buying from a dodgy setup.
You'll always kick yourself for not checking it worked or making sure the one that you were given was the same one you chose in the store.

You just got an unlucky break, that's all.
It's worth fighting though, so don't give up!

Good luck!

[Jimma]

You cheap stupid cunt. You bought a fridge that you knew was damaged, it doesn't work - and you're not even happy to take a replacement! If you came to me wanting to take legal action I'd tell you to get fucked and take the replacement fridge.

[Kez]

You cheap stupid cunt. You bought a fridge that you knew was damaged, it doesn't work - and you're not even happy to take a replacement! If you came to me wanting to take legal action I'd tell you to get fucked and take the replacement fridge.

:bananasex

[stinky]

You have the right to expect something you have purchased to be in working condition, unless otherwise specified. I believe most states have a DOA policy in regards to items purchased from a retailer which I think includes refund.

I remember looking up the rules a little while ago to see what rights I had with a unrepaired warranty return and I'm sure they said along the lines of the above.

[dwarfthrower]

You have the right to expect something you have purchased to be in working condition, unless otherwise specified.
Or unless there is a reasonable expectation that it may not be in working order - as is the case when electrical appliances are "Water Damaged"

[Cassa]

If the store didn't give a guarantee that the stock would be in working order despite the damage then I think you might be fucked.

[hazza]

You cheap stupid cunt. You bought a fridge that you knew was damaged, it doesn't work - and you're not even happy to take a replacement! If you came to me wanting to take legal action I'd tell you to get fucked and take the replacement fridge.

thread shouldve ended after this.


i wouldve taken the store credit and run with it.

[StygiaN]

Hahaha, this thread is awesome.

[Something Fast]

Mail them some cat litter.