1337 mobile gets 13373R!

[DumHed]

Well my car (http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/Dscf0525.jpg) is getting closer to completion :)

The engine's all in and going, and it was dynoed today at 130.2KW at the wheels. That's about 185kw at the engine, which is about 65KW more than the factory S14 non turbo engine is meant to have :)

This has been acheived with a massive mix of bits, and all work done by me (except the intercooler pipe welding).

it has:

Jap Spec S14 N/A engine

S13 N/A ECU (modified)

Turbo S13 injectors and fuel pump

R32 Skyline turbo

Custom manifold (modified by me)

Custom dump pipe (by me)

S15 cat

Kakimoto Racing 3" cat back exhaust

Bluebird SSS front mount intercooler

and lots of other stuff!

[That Bloke]

My brother's friend has a Silvia, It's apparently the only one like it in aus(on account of it's body kit), I don't know its mechanical credentials but visually it's a total rice job, all chrome, neons & dragon decals.

[DumHed]

hehe, no rice on my car!

added dyno chart!

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/030706CRD_DumHed.jpg

[kré]

http://www.crayonline.com/smilies/bowdown.gif

[DrDivad]

swoit!

one day i should dyno teh vortex and see how many i actually have,, probably not many :P

[DumHed]

ok, a little bit more tuning was done on tuesday night, after I putting on the new intercooler the other week.

It's now making 161.5kw at the wheels at 8psi (boost hits 10psi in the mid range, then tails off to 8 over the top end)
That's 230kw at the engine, which is not bad for an engine rated at 120kw that was never meant to have a turbo on it.
It's still using the n/a engine computer too, with some re programming.

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/031028_Silvia.gif

It's still running a bit rich in the top end and is having some slight ignition problems but is certainly getting there! :cool:
Some more tidying up of the fuel maps and a bit more dyno time should see anything up to 175 at the wheels at the same boost level.
Also, this run was done with the variable cam timing in the "low rev" position, so it should keep making more power for an extra 1000rpm or so once I get around to building a controller for it :)

Here's a pic of the intercooler (minus new center grill)

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/newcooler.jpg

[DrDivad]

swort

[DumHed]

After a few weeks off the road due to a cracked exhaust manifold I'll hopefully start the repair process on the weekend.

Because it's such a pain to pull the manifold off and replace it I figured it'd be a good time to upgrade the turbo, in the hope of making awesome POWAR!

So, the other day I picked up a turbo from an R33 Skyline GTS-T (RB25 engine) for a good price.

This is pretty much the same turbo as my current one, but with a larger compressor wheel and housing, so it can flow more air (and power)
http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/RB25_compressor.thumb.jpg

Hopefully I'll be able to make around 180rwkw with this turbo at the same sort of boost level.

I've also collected a few other nice bits to install, like a new clutch / flywheel, and a 6 speed gearbox from an S15 200SX, larger injectors, and a new full roll cage.

More turbo pics:
http://media.zgeek.com/gallery/album11?&page=8

[durus]

Just out of curiosity what do you actually do for a living?

[thingy]

For a living he repairs his car.

[DumHed]

I'm an electronics engineer, and yeah sometimes I work on my car :P

[scathing]

Originally posted by DumHed
I'm an electronics engineer, and yeah sometimes I work on my car :P

That electronics engineer sidelight is a hobby, which you do when you're not working on your car. :)

[Pirate]

Hey dude! I got the same model of car as yours in the backyard. It took a hit on the side and is only good for parts now, but you are welcome to come and take anything you want for free!
I even have a garage full of parts you could use.

tehehehehehehe

[royale]

Originally posted by DumHed
It's now making 161.5kw at the wheels at 8psi (boost hits 10psi in the mid range, then tails off to 8 over the top end)
That's 230kw at the engine.

WTF???
30% loss through 2WD drivetrain???

Well shit the stock '03 REX must be well over 210kW because its 146kW at all 4.

http://210.15.220.239/html/subaru/temp/my03_2.jpg

[DumHed]

30% is the standard figure quoted for 2WD drive trains.

Put the rex on the same dyno as my car and you will see the difference.
It's absolutely no use at all comparing absolute power figures between different brands of dynos, or even between different software versions running on the same brand of dyno.

[royale]

Sorry, forgot the :p :p :p bits and /sarcasm

Dynos are pretty useless all round except to compare before and after scenarios, preferable on the same day, under the same conditions.
They 165 figure is about as arbitiary as the 146 one, as are the estimated 'at the flywheel' figures.

[DumHed]

true, but it was on a new dyno dynamics dyno, recently calibrated, and also used on other cars I know on the same day, so for me the power figure is quite useful.

You'd also find that it's within a couple of kw of other well maintained dyno dynamics dynos, which are the industry standard.

The estimated flywheel figures are purely for interests sake, because manufacturers quote flywheel figures, so most people are interested in those.
The 30% loss figure does seem to stack up pretty well based on what I've seen of stock cars on the same type of dyno. They tend to make very close to 30% less than the manufacturers quote power figure.
Then there are some dynos that make 20kw more, and some that make 20kw less.

[DumHed]

well the car's back on the road! :)

Manifold has been re welded, new turbo's on, and the roll cage is in :)
It was all tested out with a 420km dawn drive on sunday morning :eek:

The new turbo is currently running about 6psi of boost, and seems to be making similar power to the old turbo at 8psi.
The surprising thing is that it's not any laggier, which I'm very happy about because I'd heard that the RB25 turbo was pretty laggy when used on an RB20 engine (which is what my old turbo was from)

here are more pics: http://media.zgeek.com/gallery/album11?&page=9

[C0V3R]

Is the rollcage welded or bolted in??

[DumHed]

it's bolted, 6 points.

[C0V3R]

So youre not using it to stiffen up the chassis then really. Its more of a safety item?

[DumHed]

well it still stiffens the chassis just as well as a welded in cage.
The mounting points are in the same place, and have the same amount of reinforcing metal behind them. They definitely don't move anywhere :)

[MrWaffle]

Originally posted by royale
[B]WTF???
30% loss through 2WD drivetrain???

Well shit the stock '03 REX must be well over 210kW because its 146kW at all 4.

Officially, the maximum flywheel power output of a domestic sports car can be no more than 206kw according to Japanese law. Of course, in some cars *cough*R34GTR*cough*, the maker claiming that is an outright lie :P. I'm not 100% sure of the law, I believe there are exceptions etc, but that's the general jist of it (from reading import mags :P). I know that most high-end sports cars (RX7, EVO, GTR's etc) follow the 206kw rule, I assume the WRX does as well (or at least the STi...?).

[scathing]

Its not a law, its a "gentleman's agreement". During the supercar scares that went around the world, the Japanese manufacturers "volunteered" to ensure none of their cars exceeded 280ps.

Its self regulated, and because of the way the Japanese are there's no independent verification that any car ever does. Basically, there's nothing the Japanese Department of Transport can legally do if a Japanese manufacturer churns out a 400kW monster, but then the company loses face for breaking its word.

The companies have been chomping at the bit of late. Some of the newer cars are advertised at 210kW, and most of the mdern hotnesses are unofficially generating 220kW+. The Skyline R34 GT-R N1, which is advertised at 206kW, made 235kW in its factory outputted form on a chassis dyno in Australia.

The motoring journos think that the next generation of Japanese "halo" sports cars will advertise their true power output. 300kW GT-R's and Supras. 250kW+ STi's and Evo's. etc.

The number is quite antiquated, and their sports / luxury cars are getting slaughtered by the Euros because of this enforced (and these days quite low) power cap. Even though they exceed the outputs, they can't make it too obvious that the car's making a shitload more power (once again, to save face).

[kré]

pity toyota changed their mind about making a new supra :(

[MrWaffle]

Ta for that scathing :)

[DumHed]

aha!

After getting sick of the idea of paying mucho dollars for dyno time to tune the hacked ECU I've decided to upgrade the engine management, which I will be doing with this:

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/s13pwrfc.jpg


mmmmmmmm, PowerFC :)

this will allow 100% programmability and easier future upgrades.
Unfortunately it means that there'll be a brand name part in the car.. Maybe I can put the stock ECU cover on it :D

[scathing]

Originally posted by DumHed
Unfortunately it means that there'll be a brand name part in the car.. Maybe I can put the stock ECU cover on it :D

Pfft. You can't fool me. I know a genuine Panaphonics when I see one.

[excalibur]

What happened to the days of V8's with no computers, and adjustments where made by a spanner and a screwdriver??

Far similar, and with similar $$ put in, get far more performance.

XB Falcon 2 door with worked 351 windsor will be mine when I turn 25 so can afford insurance....

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by excalibur


Far similar, and with similar $$ put in, get far more performance.



I think not, Bang for buck technology now wins over cubes hands down.

[excalibur]

Don't take any notice of my crap grammar, and repetition, repetition.

My only argument in the speed argument I tend to get in alot, is "why are all the high end drag cars big arsed blown V8's, not turbo 4's or turbo 6's?"

I will admit that the jap imports have their place and that is with alot of people, but not me.

/me stops here cause I don't want ot get into the argument again

[scathing]

Originally posted by excalibur
My only argument in the speed argument I tend to get in alot, is "why are all the high end drag cars big arsed blown V8's, not turbo 4's or turbo 6's?"

Because drag racing is for retards that lack the co-ordination to throttle or brake, while steering during that process, without causing themselves injury.


If you're talking speed, as opposed to acceleration, the fastest road going production vehicle in Australia is a twin turbo boxer 6. The Porsche 996 Turbo has been clocked at 320km/hr on 95RON petrol in 40 degree ambient temperatures while driving through the Northern Territory (which are hardly the best conditions for a high strung turbocharged European engine). I assume the lighter and more powerful GT2 will go even faster.

If you're talking modified cars, the Jun Supra with a single turbo 3L inline 6 was the fastest sub 5 litre car on the Bonneville Salt Flats last year at over 400km/hr. There are several Euro tuners that will double the power and torque output of those Porsches too, so its not as if they won't hit high speeds.


If you want to get really anal, using a jet engine is better than using a piston engine. Mountains of thrust, and no wheelspins so you get excellent launches and a big top speed.


At any rate, its not really relevant to the thread. The owner of aforementioned vehicle has the same opinion of drag racing that I do. He wants a sports car, not a rocket sled.

At any rate, an engine computer provides better granularity of control over engine functions. Its easier to tune the car more comprehensively, and get a more efficient engine.

[That Bloke]

Originally posted by excalibur
What happened to the days of V8's with no computers, and adjustments where made by a spanner and a screwdriver??

Far similar, and with similar $$ put in, get far more performance.


From Autospeed.com.au: "These days, apportioning engine power on the basis of engine size is known by nearly everyone to be a waste of time:"

[DrDivad]

it all comes down you what you like, no need to get all personal and call people who like drags retards, you never know they might be the best drifter EVAR and simply prefer straight lines..

whatever you find fun, do it.

[DumHed]

well the Silvia's in pieces again, because the intercooler mounting bolts and brackets have broken, and it's a good time to remove the front bumper for some re painting. I also have two new front guards to go on, which will get rid of some of the car's dodginess :)

[DumHed]

I've just found a set of R32 GTR wheels for a good price, so they'll be on the car in a week or two :)

16x8" Forged alloy

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/GTRwheel.jpg

[DrDivad]

mate sikk!

[DumHed]

Well, now the wheels are on, and they look pretty tough :)

They really fill out the guards nicely, and they're heaps lighter than the old wheels, which gives a noticeable difference in handling. Unfortunately the tyres are not so good, but they'll be replaced in the nearish future I think.

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/Silviagtrwheels.jpg


For some reason (the ultra cold weather would be part of it, and maybe today's 600+k's of driving would have helped) the car's going like an absolute rocket tonight.

Driving along in second at 60 or so, then flooring it feels like the front wheels are lifting off the ground!
Doing a snap change from first to second results in a fairly instant redlining, and some very rapid sideways travel up the road!
This is still at 6psi too!
There will be much fun to be had when the new ECU arrives and I can really play with the tuning :)

[flow]

Gotta see your track times now.

HP & tyres/wheels have got to subtract secs... but how much.

[DumHed]

I really need to get some decent tyres, then get some real track time happening.

I've been too busy to get the car on the track any more.
At least when I do it'll be well set up :)

[DumHed]

Well, last night I re connected the boost controller to see if my ignition troubles have actually been sorted.
They have!

With a few extra psi of boost the car's actually slower, cos it doesn't get traction till 3rd gear :)

Tonight I chucked it on the dyno, and found that the increased boost is above the current fuel system's capabilities, so the new pump and injectors that are sitting on my desk will be going in asap.

We had to drop the boost back to 6psi to keep the fuel mixtures safe, but it made 157.4rwkw at 6psi, which is about 225kw at the engine.

Next time I'll have some more stuff sorted and it'll be making 180 at the wheels (257 at the engine) I hope!

I also did back to back runs with the cam timing in the high rev (retarded) and low rev (advanced) positions, and found that the optimimum change over point will be 6600rpm.

Edit: dyno charto desuka?

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/040518_Silvia.gif

[Plough]

Hows the car going now ?

[Cassa]

It got pulled over for an illegal blow off valve the other night despite the fact that it doesn't have one.

The occifer seemed to take exception to the uncovered air filter so teh Hed is currently making some kind of shielding contraption for it.

[scathing]

Dumhed is testing his highly experimental "plumbed no-where" blow-off valve, which the quite knowledgable and eagle-eyed cops picked up on.

I'm surprised I didn't get pulled over since my car was making about as much noise (when I saw the headlights rushing towards us I figured it was just some loon in a 4WD, which are pretty common in your area), but then when I saw it was a cop who dived between us I knew what was coming........

[beerbaron]

hey dumhed
i couldnt access the links
would like to see your car

[beerbaron]

never mind
found it
nice car
like the 240z better though

[Plough]

I'm still get excited when I see what you are getting at the rear wheels

[DumHed]

yeah the 240Z was cool :)

Ever had a look at how quickly they develop rust though?! I had to sell it while it was still shaped like a 240!

Lately I've found out a few things on my car.
At the time of the last dyno test, the fuel mix was going a bit lean from 6000rpm, which we decided was due to a dodgy fuel pump.
I've changed that, with no effect, and then upgraded the injectors (from 370cc to 480cc), and it still does the exact same thing.
I then did some data logging of the sensors, and the Air Mlow Meter is at its 5v maximum output from 6000rpm onwards, hence the mixture problem!

After the other night's police excitement I'm re doing all the intake piping so I can enclose the filter, and am putting a larger Air Flow Meter on it so I can actually get the fuelling accurate at high revs.
Once that's working well I should be able to up the boost a little bit, and make some more power. I'm aiming for ~180kw at the wheels, hopefully at about 8psi.

[beerbaron]

dumhead
i am keen to enter a 240z in the classic adelaide, although ill probably end up using the v8MGB
although seen in the states ,guys putting sb chev's into a 240z !!!! yaaahoooo baby
but then also seen on zoom magazine or hot4's i think someone putting the 2.5single turbo skyline motor in a 240z
just love the classic shape
as good as my mgb

[DumHed]

yeah it's a really nice style. I'd really love you get one in nice condition and put an SR20 in it (same as the Silvia) with some Silvia suspension bits as well it could be made into a very light, very good handling car.

I've seen pics somewhere of a 240 with a Nissan VH45DE V8 engine. That'd be a bit of a weapon - and not too heavy being a modern all alloy engine.

[beerbaron]

heres some interesting conversions ive seen personally
sr20 + 5 speed into MGB ( very snug fit. although standard intercooler used , actually got to see the car being driven very very sleeper then the rears just light up)
twin turbo nissan v6 + auto into a triumph stag
and also seen the article of a240z in zoom mag with a supra or soarer motor in it
( would of preferred a nissan motor )

[DumHed]

Well, after moving around power steering pipes, the dip stick tube, re doing all the intake piping, and installing a 300ZX (Z32) Air Flow Meter I've been busy trying to get it all working!

here's a pic of the AFM, piping, and filter setup:

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/z32_2.jpg


and here's the heat shield installed to enclose the filter and keep engine bay heat out:

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/heatshield.jpg

it's made of 1mm aluminium sheet and an angle channel section. It's held in by two bolts on one side, and the other side slots into the gap between the chassis and the outer guard panel.


The hard part has been getting the tuning right for the larger AFM!
I've spent most of today adjusting values in the ECU and burning new chips, going trial and error to get the mixtures right.
I got it to the point where it was driveable, but it was running mega rich at idle, and mega lean while driving. After giving up on it for a while I decided to change some other things in the ECU (conversion / linearisation table for the AFM) and it's now running close to correct mixtures for most of the rev range - but still rich at idle.

With a little bit more sorting it should be ok, and I'll be able to make more power.
Even during the testing today it seems to have picked up a bit of go, causing major traction issues at anything over 2500rpm in first :P

[scathing]

I got it to the point where it was driveable
Time to wind up the boost, yuleh!

[scathing]

Even during the testing today it seems to have picked up a bit of go, causing major traction issues at anything over 2500rpm in first :P
Lighting up Falken Ziex's in cold weather isn't something to brag about.

You could probably make an auto 4WD non-turbo Impreza chirp Ziex's. :)

[DumHed]

they don't have 225 width tyres :P

I'm not talking about chirping either - it's just 2500rpm and bang, redline :)
It used to take a few more revs before it'd break loose under straight line acceleration.

By the time it's tuned I reckon it'll have the same effect on Azenis :D

[scathing]

Then we need to get you some phat rims. Maybe 16 x 10 or something :)

[DumHed]

now it's running quite nicely :)
Heaps of tuning, and fixing an intermittant electrical problem has the fuel mixtures nice and constant - and the engine running very smoothly.

There are still a few things to iron out to get it running 100%, but mostly it's actually better now than it was.
Also, all engine support hardware is now good enough to handle 200kw+ at the wheels.
Whether or not the engine can take it is another story :)

Once I'm happy with the tuning, and have had it on a dyno I'll wind the boost up a bit and get some serious POWAR! happening :cool:

[scathing]

Then you can make your sig, "200rwkW with a N/A engine and stock cams".

Then all the cool kids will like you.

[SamBo]

Then you can make your sig, "200rwkW with a N/A engine and stock cams".

Then all the cool kids will like you.

No they wont


:D

[DumHed]

well, there's now some more progress.
I've just spent the last week on and off re wiring an engine loom from an S15 200SX to connect up to my S13 chassis / dash looms, and the S14 engine.

It's been a bit of a mission, especially when I didn't have a wiring diagram for the S13 n/a loom, so there was much guesswork and double checking involved.
I must have done a reasonable job though because the loom plugged in and worked first go!

The idea of this painful swap is that I can run aftermarket engine management designed for the S15 - which is easier to get than S13 stuff, offers a few more features (such as controlling the Variable Cam Timing on the S14/15 engines), and is heaps easier to tune than the factory ECU.

It's all in and running now, but the Air Flow Meter is giving problems. I suspect now that this one is either damaged, or has been hacked in the past to support more power. I'm all for more power, but since it is no longer any sort of recognisable standard AFM it means that the tuning process is much more difficult. This now explains the problems I've had with tuning the standard ECU for this AFM.

So, next step is to get hold of a decent, working Z32 (300ZX) AFM, R33 skyline AFM, or a factory S15 one to get it all going properly.

[scathing]

Is the S15 AFM better than the S13's?

I mean, you were maxing out the S13's before you did this last round of work - won't you just be returning to that situation if you put the AFM from an SR20DET back on the car?

Oh, on a recent cruise, Rob (with the Lexus) said that the Z32AFM looks identical to the one off a Liberty 2.5L....which is far cheaper to buy than the known-quantity Z32.

[DumHed]

The S15 AFM does have a different output curve to the S13 one, but it's not a huge difference. I think it'd be ok for about 180rwkw though.

I've noticed the similarities between the Z32 and Subaru AFMs before, but I think their calibration is different - which is not the worst problem ever, but means it's not a plug and play option.

At the moment I'm going to try to set up the ECU to compensate for my weird AFM.

[DumHed]

bah, a P-Plater chick ran into the back of me on the way home from work today. Damage isn't too bad, but it's a pain to get quotes and sort it out!

I'd done some PowerFC tuning at work, and was going to do more from home tonight!

[minorproblem]

i dont mean to be insulting or anything but my question when people mod cars is, dont you think the engineers who designed the car know more about cars than you do. (this is more directed at those fully sicked up cars)

[Cassa]

DumHed is an engineer!

The same could be said though for anyone who mods anything - it's about personal preferences for what you want out of whatever it is you're modifying. Of course, it helps to know the realistic limits and what you have to work around, which is something I think a lot of owners of 'fully sicked up cars' don't really understand.

[DumHed]

yeah, my problem is that the engineers who design cars don't understand my preferences, and if they did they still couldn't build a car that suits me but will sell to the general public.

When it comes to making my car what I want it to be, there's really no one more qualified than myself :)

[Aardvark]

Most of the fulsiks get fulsik bolton bodykits, which were made by the engineers, and fulsik 3" exhausts to feel better about their sub 3" penises.

I'd rather have a car that can do a 10 secon quarter than a car that can burst eardrums a quarter mile in every direction

[DumHed]

I'd rather one that goes around corners :)

[Cassa]

Not like your mum who just goes straight down. AHAHAH!





dammit, mother-in-law rules apply.

[Aardvark]

That's what the bat-grapnle and batrope launched from the batcannon are for

[SamBo]

bah, a P-Plater chick ran into the back of me on the way home from work today. Damage isn't too bad, but it's a pain to get quotes and sort it out!

I'd done some PowerFC tuning at work, and was going to do more from home tonight!
Damn those stupid P-Platers!!!!! erm, wait..... :p

[b2barker]

i dont mean to be insulting or anything but my question when people mod cars is, dont you think the engineers who designed the car know more about cars than you do. (this is more directed at those fully sicked up cars)
The engineers who design cars are limited to contraints that people who modify cars don't care about. For example they choke intakes and exhuasts to reduce noise, they set timing for worse possible fuel quality and temperature, all at the expense of power and fuel economy. They put in stuff to reduce road noise in the cabin, at the expense of weight. They set ride height for the biggest speed humps and dodgey driveways, they design suspension for comfort, all at the expense of handling. They limit boost for reliability at the expense of power.
So modifying is about getting what you want. If I could afford a supercar, I wouldn't need to modify it, much :) But affordable cars need a bit of help to get what you want.

Dumbhed : Go for Z32 AFM, rather than R33. The R33 AFM is only good for about 200rwkw which you are aproaching already. In fact mine is already maxing out (in my R33) and I would be lucky to be above 150rwkw (stock boost, exhaust, intake only). I suspect it's faulty though, or dodgey wiring.

[scathing]

bah, a P-Plater chick ran into the back of me on the way home from work today.
Did you get her phone number? ;)

[DumHed]

Dumbhed : Go for Z32 AFM, rather than R33.

Yeah I already have the AFM, but it's not behaving like a normal Z32.

It's actually now set up for a VH45 AFM, plus 50% and it works well, so this AFM should max out around the 400rwkw mark!

[DumHed]

Did you get her phone number? ;)

Just cos you can only get phone numbers by having car accidents doesn't mean other people are the same :P

[Drakin]

Ah but it is fun cruising for chicks with him... <SCREEECH> <BANG> "hey babe..."

[DumHed]

well, boost control is now working :)

At 9-10psi I'm getting over 95% duty cycle on the S15 injectors though which is a bit of a worry! I won't be upgrading those, cos injectors are one thing that you just can't get cheap :) besides, the ones in it are its second upgrade already!

Ahh well, with decent tuning (which hopefully I will gradually learn how to do) it should make some good power!

[DumHed]

Here's a pic of the engine bay now:

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/enginebayS15bits.sized.jpg

[SamBo]

where's the chrome yo?

[DumHed]

OK! after a million dollar tuning expedition I think the car's had its first and last workshop visit...

End result: new airflow meter required, many hours of tuning, 3 more psi of boost, the exact same dyno figure, slower boost response, and less midrange power so it's slower!!!

Also, just to add value to the tuning, it now has an oil burning problem when left idling for an extended period of time.
This points to:
a) turbo seals - expensive, annoying, and time consuming to replace
b) valve stem seals - extrememly annoying and time consuming to replace
c) cracked piston ring land - engine out, rebuild time...

So at the moment there's a good chance that because I was worried about blowing up the engine by tuning it myself I have just paid someone to blow it up for me!!

[Cassa]

Should have listened to me when I told you not to waste money on a workshop!

[SamBo]

And there I thought that DumHed trusted no one to work on his car except DumHed....
This sux dude.... i hope this isn't only giving you more encouragement to go n/a again.... ;)

[Cassa]

It's looking pretty likely that N/A will be the go, especially if its the turbo causing the problem, or engine rebuild time (since we just happen to have a mostly built N/A engine in the garage, how convenient!)

[scathing]

No!!!!

Dumhed is the master of the boost!

[DumHed]

nah the mostly rebuilt engine in the garage is full of turbo internals!
It'd be a very sluggish n/a engine.

There are a few things to check out before deciding what's actually causing the problem, but for now it seems to be ok in normal road use.

I'll be dynoed again soon at the same place I got the dyno chart with the old ECU and stuff - which will give a good comparison...

Anywho, the good news is I came second in my class at the Huntley Hillclimb race yesterday! I'm pretty happy with that for a first go with very unsuited suspension and worrying mechanical problems :)

[DumHed]

well, after much deliberation (and a lot of ignoring stuff for a while) I've converted the engine back to n/a :)

It'll be getting tuned on friday, and will then be ready to demolish n00bs who think turbos make them fast :P

As it happens the smoke issue was in fact caused by the turbo oil seals, which is sad because it was a nice turbo, but good because it's the cheapest and simplest thing to replace.

I now have a nice set of extractors on, have moved the battery to the passenger side, and have done a very short intake piping setup with the filter where the battery used to go.
It's running pretty well, but power falls off at high revs due to the turbo tuning.

I've pulled a fair bit more weight out of the front end so the car's already handling better.
The aim is to get it under 1000kg, and have similar power to a factory SR20DET, which will make it accelerate quicker than most cars on the road, and handle better than almost anything street legal that has a roof :)

[DumHed]

BOOYAH!

110.1rwkw!!

That works out to be about 157kw at the engine using the usual 30% drive train loss calculation :)
A standard S13 turbo engine is rated at 153kw, and makes around 105rwkw on the dyno, so I'm pretty close.

This is still using factory cams, so with some aftermarket ones later on I should be able to get over 120rwkw, which is not bad at all for a 2L n/a engine!

At the moment peak power is around 7000rpm, and the rev limit has been shifted up to 8000 to make some more use of the available top end power.

Some pics:

Engine, needing a clean:
http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/naengine.jpg

Intake setup:
http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/AFMandfilter.jpg

New battery position and extractors:
http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/batterandextractors.jpg

[SamBo]

RIP turbo *sniff*
weren't you making something like 160rwkw before?

[DumHed]

yep, but now it's more responsive and a lot lighter :)

Also it's a lot cheaper and easier to keep it running 100% - which means more time and money for me to thrash it round race tracks :)

[scathing]

Wakefield Park, here we come!

[DumHed]

Dyno charto desu!

http://media.zgeek.com/albums/album11/DumHed_na.jpg

[DumHed]

on the way are a set of Tomei PROCams, 270 degrees duration and 12.5mm lift, and a set of valve springs to match.

This will mean getting rid of the variable cam timing unfortunately (the tougher valve springs kill it after a short while) but it should give quite a good power boost.

[scathing]

You're getting more and more brand name equipment in your car. A'PEXi, Trust (although the boost controller's gone now), Tomei......you'll lose your mongrel status soon!

[Cassa]

It's getting a new coat of paint as well.

[thingy]

He might even have to get a shopping list! EGADS!

[scathing]

It's getting a new coat of paint as well.

:O

Wait..........tree sap doesn't count as paint.

[justinfox]

Going off mate!!!!! Would love to see and hear it in real life one time.

[Benwah]

Zmeet cruise?

[Cassa]

Ain't done one of those for a looooooong time. It could be fun to try again.

[thingy]

I've been scared away from the idea by the mindset that I have seen of a lot of zgeekers. I don't really trust them enough to go out cruising with if I want to make it back in one piece and without witnessing acts of massive stupidity.

[Cassa]

That is true thingy, perhaps we should make it an invite-only event.

[SamBo]

I've been scared away from the idea by the mindset that I have seen of a lot of zgeekers. I don't really trust them enough to go out cruising with if I want to make it back in one piece and without witnessing acts of massive stupidity.
I wanna cruise
I'll behave :)

[thingy]

... but will your car? ;)

[Merudo]

That is true thingy, perhaps we should make it an invite-only event.
if you go, are you going to take the brown hornet? (i think thats what you called it, i can't quite remember)


I wonder if by the time this gets all organised, ill have my new car or a bike ( i STILL cant choose ffs)

[Benwah]

Invite only for shizz. There are WAY too many teenage lads on here to just invite everyone.

[Merudo]

Invite only for shizz. There are WAY too many teenage lads on here to just invite everyone.
I partially take offence to that, I'm only 19, yet you wont find me being a hooligan in my luxury sedan...

[Cassa]

Brown hornet! I would love to take my skyline-eating machine but I fear I'll get voted down in favour of the mongrel.

[Merudo]

It it seriously fast and done up, or are you just hyping it up and its a stock standard econobox corolla?

[thingy]

The only fast thing about it is the driver - dumhed. The skylines it ate were driven by people whose ninja skills behind the wheel are weak.

[Cassa]

Thingy is correct. If you're a good player you can make the instrument sound good no matter how crappy it is :)

Although it's always amusing to hear people ask 'wow what mods have you got on that thing?!' And then their reaction when you say it's stock.

[Merudo]

i was referring to the brown hornet of cassa, but its good to know that dumhed is a good driver in his 1337-mobile too.

[Cassa]

He is referring to the hornet.

[SamBo]

... but will your car? ;)
yes, for it has a soul made of 1337ness now, thanks to DumHed.

And don't underestimate the pwah of the brown hornet! That thing towed the samvia about 80kms when i broke down!
I have massive amounts of respect for that vehicle and its owners :)

[Benwah]

I partially take offence to that, I'm only 19, yet you wont find me being a hooligan in my luxury sedan...

You'll find the vast majority of Teenage lads are dangerous drivers and risk taker, remember, I was a teenage lad once.... don't take offence to my wild generalisation please mate, just tellin' it as I sees it yo!

[DumHed]

That thing towed the samvia about 80kms when i broke down!

80? huh! It was 110k's of the most treacherous mountain roads! :D

[hazza]

guys guys dumheds car once beat a ferrari remember

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[thingy]

I have a car?

[hazza]

doh

[scathing]

Although it's always amusing to hear people ask 'wow what mods have you got on that thing?!' And then their reaction when you say it's stock.
The jaws always hit the floor when they find out about your fluffy purple seat covers.

Its sik mate, sik. They should drop the Brown Hornet into the 14s, without having to do some of the more drastic measures (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=776885) others have done to get their seemingly shitbox cars into that ET bracket.

[BtrFly]

That is true thingy, perhaps we should make it an invite-only event.

invite for bikes. shite that means i would have to have my unrestricted licence, otherwise i am limited to 80km/hr... hmm may have to grab my brothers fulli sik car! go the turbo galant!

[DumHed]

you might also want to get a couple of years riding experience before hitting the mountain passes :)

Hazza, that was my old car :)
Yes I "beat" a Ferrari down a mountain road. No I don't think the ferrari was being driven to its full potential, but yes it was being driven reasonably fast, and no I was not driving my car to its limits either.
Don't underestimate the capabilities of a well set up car driven by someone who knows it well.

[DumHed]

Well, yesterday I did a dyno run and got things tweaked to see how well the new Tomei cams and valve springs work:

http://img200.exs.cx/img200/6895/dumhed122kw6ug.jpg

This is now just over stock S15 power at the wheels, which is pretty good for an n/a engine, especially since the car's a fair bit lighter.

As you can see, it's picked up just over 10rwkw peak, and has gained almost 25rwkw at 7500rpm!
There's a very slight loss of midrange, but that can be recovered with tuning.
The surprising thing is the slight power gain at around 2500rpm!

[scathing]

Is the VCT doing anything wacky to affect your curve so?

I would have thought that a bigger set of cams would just have steepened the curve. So it'd be less powerful in the low end, find a point where its equal, and then make more power up top.

[DumHed]

the VTC is working the same, but it's now set to hold the advanced cam time till 7500rpm, which worked best.

Normally larger cams do steepen the curve, or make it very concave, with nothing down low and then all the power up top.

This result shows the advantage of a properly designed engine and well developed cams, not just a generic spec custom grind cam.

The slight extra torque down low is probably due to the intake being able to resonate better than it used to, due to the more sudden opening of the valves creating strong pulses in the intake manifold. It's actually very audible at low rpm compared to the old cams.
The new ones have dropped some power below 2000rpm though, but that's not too important.

[Directed]

DumHed, I am just enjoying the hell out of this thread. It is so nice to see someone designing a well-thought out car. It would be interesting to see the g's you can pull when cornering now that your car is lighter and presumably better balanced.

[DumHed]

dunno about well thought out :P
get an n/a engine, put a turbo on it, change engine management, remove turbo, add cams, etc, etc, etc :)

It's fun though!!
And yep, it pulls some serious g's in cornering. My next step really is sorting out the suspension properly (it's halfway there) and getting it to really handle.

[Cassa]

My suggestion for that would be to buy a different car.

[muga]

Cool car, you've done a lot of work to it :)

Still trying to decide if I should sell my XR6 and buy an XR8 or spend money on getting it turboed. I have always been a fan of the V8 but times are changing.. have started leaning more towards V6 turboed cars than anything.

[DumHed]

yeah probably too much work :p

V6 turbo engines are usually a bit over complex because you either need to run exhaust piping all over the place, or have a twin turbo setup.

Straight sixes (like in the XR6) are not too bad, but I'm not sure how many bits are available for easy turbocharging of the Ford six.

[muga]

I have been looking at an 'APS Phase II System' (330kW - street legal*)
(http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/falcon/phase_ii.htm)
I know a couple of people who have got this system running at the moment and these cars absolutely hammer.
You are looking at >550kW if you run a Phase IV system, it is outrageous power.

[* = pending on EPA noise test and certificate of certified modifications]

[sharpie]

theres plenty of kits available for turbo'ing the older ford I6's

just have fun finding them now since every weblink you find will be for a bloody XR6T

asto the APS kits Muga dont forget to have a look at the Nizpro kits as well
their leading the game at the moment with their stupidly powerful XR6T... 1200KW

[muga]

dont forget to have a look at the Nizpro kits as well
their leading the game at the moment with their stupidly powerful XR6T... 1200KW
Holy hell!
Thats far to much power for me, far to much for anyone..

[scathing]

1200kW is just stupid levels of power. There's no way a Falcon will ever put that down, so more than half that power output is just a wank. The Falcon running that motor couldn't even be remotely road legal to use it, and even if you built a dedicated drag car it'd have to be so modified it wouldn't really even be a Falcon anymore.


What's the point of making big power numbers if you can't use it? Its like being a priest with a 12" dick. You can't use it the way normal people do, so all you can do is show it off to little kiddies who don't know any better.........and if you let them play with it they're going to get fucked and the cops are going to beat your ass down.

[Directed]

I don't know guys, saying a car is too powerful is like saying a girl is too pretty. There's a special kind of beauty in a car that can grind rubber to dust in seconds. Granted, its not practical for street use, but there is a joy in squeezing out every little horse out of an engine (I'm from US and use horsepower instead of KW/HR). My last drag racer I worked on (it was my uncle's) was a Ford Falcon which I put a small block v8 and a supercharger on. It was close to stupid powerful, and we had stupid grins on our faces every time we ran that thing!

[muga]

I'm talking about driving them on the roads, there are some clowns out there who drive 1200kW cars on the road because 'it's cool' then they will wrap it around a telegraph pole at outrageous speeds and family/relatives of that person will put the blame on anyone but the person driving the car. They will cry that the roads are not good enough, the street was to poorly lit, that pole should have never of been there...

I don't have a problem with extremely high-powered cars, just as long as they are never driven on the roads, they don't belong. I have a cousin who is in the process of building (been in the process for 8 years) a VL that will be ready in a couple of months that has been predicted to run 7's - should be good :)

[scathing]

As muga said, I'm criticising that kind of setup for street use.

If its a race motor then too much power is a good place to start from, but on street tyres and non-racetrack-smooth-and-grippy surfaces you're just asking for trouble.

[SamBo]

how about we stop bitching about unsuitable uses for overly powered cars and get back on topic of dumhed's car, hmmm?

[DumHed]

yes, my car is overly powerful!

AHA!

[SamBo]

yes, my car is overly powerful!

AHA!
i hear it isn't as powerful as your mum though